Paul Byron vs Sven Baertschi

[swissexpert]

Sven won't go back to Europe soon. Guy hasn't even been that bad. Yeah 4 points in 15 games is not much, but 9 mins a night isn't either.
He's been fine in the defensive part of hockey, which was his main issue and the reason he didn't make it the first time around.
I still got some hope for this gu.

 

[BVicious]

Sven isn't going to Europe. He has future in the NHL. Both he and his agent know that. If it's with the flames, great, if not, he will find a team in the NHL that will give him an opportunity.

 

[Calculon]

Sven isn't going to Europe. He has future in the NHL. Both he and his agent know that. If it's with the flames, great, if not, he will find a team in the NHL that will give him an opportunity.

Yup. There's a reason Burke has a reputation as a players GM. And doubtless he'll pass that on to Treliving. If they can't find a spot for Baertschi, they'll trade him, even if it's for pennies on the dollar, or they'll end up waiving him, just so he can get a chance somewhere else.

 

[Rockmorton]

To me, Byron is Matthew Lombardi 2.0. Small, quicker than a hiccup, great hands, lots of promise - can't finish. The Flames waited for years for Lombardi to turn the corner and he never did.

 

[Anglesmith]

To me, Byron is Matthew Lombardi 2.0. Small, quicker than a hiccup, great hands, lots of promise - can't finish. The Flames waited for years for Lombardi to turn the corner and he never did.

The difference between them (forgive me for being a Byron apologist as usual) is that Lombardi never really had the scoring touch, while Byron suddenly went cold this season after always being able to convert his chances previously.

 

[The Gnome]

Right now Byron is easily more valuable to the flames, not even debatable. Great bottom six guy, faster than almost anyone in the league and completely fearless, something that is totally lost on Baertschi.

Now, in terms of future promise, Baertschi is the guy. He has the potential to be a top line talent, something Byron will likely never be.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I've seen lots of great things from Sven, seriously I'm very excited about him. And they are mostly subtle things. You can tell he has an extremely high IQ, in Jr's he would use his smarts to read the play in the offensive zone and create scoring opportunities. He has amazing hands and is a good skater, he also has great playmaking skills. But this season he has completely switched his focus to playing a 2-way game. He is so focused on his all around play and not making a mistake, that we are seeing a lot that creativity being sucked out of his game. But I still see flashes of it at times.

What I'm hoping happens to him, that eventually playing a 2-way just becomes second nature to him where he doesn't need to think about it. He's been watching lots of video this year and you can see it in his game that he's trying to play mistake free hockey and it's really showing in his offensive struggles. If he can just play an instinctive 2-way game and then just go out and play his game offensively, he's going to be a hell of a player. The problem though and what has happened is that he is over thinking things to much and it's really affecting him. I really believe he is on the verge of breaking through, I've seen so many good improvements in his game, Hartley just needs to tell him to go out and play his game. He's learned a new aspect of hockey which he should not forget, but now he needs to get back to do doing the things he's so gifted at.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The problem though and what has happened is that he is over thinking things to much and it's really affecting him. I really believe he is on the verge of breaking through, I've seen so many good improvements in his game, Hartley just needs to tell him to go out and play his game. He's learned a new aspect of hockey which he should not forget, but now he needs to get back to do doing the things he's so gifted at.

It'll come, and I think it'll be when he's mated with a creative playmaking center like Backlund or Bennett. Nothing opens up a playmaker's game mentally than being alongside another playmaker.. just look at what Hudler has done for Gaudreau.

Next season I'd love to see Hartley mix up the lines and go with something like

Gaudreau-Monahan-Jones
Sven-Bennett-Hudler
Wolf-Backlund-Colborne
Bouma-Stajan-Jooris
Shore
Raymond
Byron (though more realistically I see another team signing him, hopefully he gets signed because I truly think he's an NHLer and he'll find his scoring touch too)

Man, is it ever gonna be tough to figure out who makes the team next year. I hope Treliving moves some of the veterans like Raymond and Bollig. Jones can stay, since he'll expire just as Poirier is ready for the big time. All that'll leave is Stajan, who ideally gets supplanted (properly) by Shore. Man, a Bouma-Shore-Jooris 4th line could be VERY deadly.

I am totally going off on a tangent though.

Key point is that Hudler could do for Sven and Bennett what he's already done for Monahan and Johnny.

 

[Calculon]

To me, Byron is Matthew Lombardi 2.0. Small, quicker than a hiccup, great hands, lots of promise - can't finish. The Flames waited for years for Lombardi to turn the corner and he never did.

Byron wishes he had the offensive ability of Lombardi. I think many forget that Lombardi put up 46 points in 69 games in 08/09 (16 points in 19 games with the Coyotes) and then 53 points in 78 games in 09/10. And that under the offensively stingy system of Tippett.

Lombardi was a legit top-six centre until concussions caught up to him. Byron's a bottom six energy role player that can chip in every once in a while.

 

[Master Bill]

To me, Byron is Matthew Lombardi 2.0. Small, quicker than a hiccup, great hands, lots of promise - can't finish. The Flames waited for years for Lombardi to turn the corner and he never did.

Well I thought Lombardi had some sick hands. The goals he scored on Luongo a couple times and vs. some other teams were deadly, he made them look so smooth with his speed and hands.

It's just the inconsistency that prevented him from being a legitimate 2nd line center as a Flame. Maybe he lacked the hockey sense and playmaking ability to cement his place, but the hands and speed were there for sure.

 

[Lunatik]

Well I thought Lombardi had some sick hands. The goals he scored on Luongo a couple times and vs. some other teams were deadly, he made them look so smooth with his speed and hands.

It's just the inconsistency that prevented him from being a legitimate 2nd line center as a Flame. Maybe he lacked the hockey sense and playmaking ability to cement his place, but the hands and speed were there for sure.

Lombardi was all feet and no hands. He was also lazy, rarely moving his feet for a full game.

Byron like Lombardi is all speed and no hands, but he brings a physical element and is always moving his feet.

 

[Master Bill]

Lombardi was all feet and no hands. He was also lazy, rarely moving his feet for a full game.

Byron like Lombardi is all speed and no hands, but he brings a physical element and is always moving his feet.

I don't know, I'm not sure if he really had as bad of a set of hands as some posters were making out here. He had good enough hands in front of the net to deke goalies as well as going around defensemen. Maybe he lacked the hands to get himself around for a full game, but his offensive production even as a Flame is at a level Byron would have a hard time reaching. Not saying he's a better hockey player than Byron, since Byron is the more competitive for sure.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't know, I'm not sure if he really had as bad of a set of hands as some posters were making out here. He had good enough hands in front of the net to deke goalies as well as going around defensemen. Maybe he lacked the hands to get himself around for a full game, but his offensive production even as a Flame is at a level Byron would have a hard time reaching. Not saying he's a better hockey player than Byron, since Byron is the more competitive for sure.

Lombardi is one of the most overrated Flames in hisotry

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Lombardi was all feet and no hands. He was also lazy, rarely moving his feet for a full game.

Byron like Lombardi is all speed and no hands, but he brings a physical element and is always moving his feet.

I wouldn't say "no hands". His feet were way faster than his head or his hands, but he had serviceable hands and wasn't a dumb player. He was a decent 2.5 liner and a great PKer.

 

[Lunatik]

I wouldn't say "no hands". His feet were way faster than his head or his hands, but he had serviceable hands and wasn't a dumb player. He was a decent 2.5 liner and a great PKer.

He was no more a top 6 forward than David Moss was, he was a 3rd liner and only got top 6 minutes because were so weak down the middle

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Lombardi is one of the most overrated Flames in hisotry

That concussion he suffered in 04 certainly didn't help his career. He wasn't the same player after that.

 

[Lunatik]

That concussion he suffered in 04 certainly didn't help his career. He wasn't the same player after that.

he wasn't much of a player before that either

 

[Master Bill]

Lombardi is one of the most overrated Flames in hisotry

Well at least I don't overrate him myself, I just thought he was a good depth forward that stepped up at important times to score goals, whether it was shorthanded or even-strength. A treat to watch sometimes when blazing past defenders, making them look absolutely hopeless.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Lombo had speed to burn, average hands, and a below average shot. Was a smart player though, 2/3rd line tweener.

 

[Bosnian Beast]

Lombardi is one of the most overrated Flames in hisotry

Haaaaaaaaaaave you met Dustin Boyd? Lombardi was alright before he got Derian Hatchered in 2004, but after that his brain was mush.

 

[Lunatik]

Haaaaaaaaaaave you met Dustin Boyd? Lombardi was alright before he got Derian Hatchered in 2004, but after that his brain was mush.

Lombardi played 79 games and had 16 goals and 29 points. Nothing too impressive for a 22 year old rookie that was seeing top 6 minutes. He had less than 50 points in his AHL season and never did squat in the Quebec League until he was a 20 year old. People were enamored with his speed and scoring chances, but at the end of the day on all those breakaways he had 2 move; shoot right into the logo or cut hard across the top off the crease and try to go 5 hole, rarely did either work.

 

[BVicious]

Lombardi played 79 games and had 16 goals and 29 points. Nothing too impressive for a 22 year old rookie that was seeing top 6 minutes. He had less than 50 points in his AHL season and never did squat in the Quebec League until he was a 20 year old. People were enamored with his speed and scoring chances, but at the end of the day on all those breakaways he had 2 move; shoot right into the logo or cut hard across the top off the crease and try to go 5 hole, rarely did either work.

3 moves. He also dropped his stick. He was always looking for his stick.

 

[DFF]

Right now Byron is easily more valuable to the flames, not even debatable. Great bottom six guy, faster than almost anyone in the league and completely fearless, something that is totally lost on Baertschi.

.

Very frustrating to watch Byron. I dont think he can score on an open net.

 

[Lunatik]

3 moves. He also dropped his stick. He was always looking for his stick.

 

[Volica]

Lombo had speed to burn, average hands, and a below average shot. Was a smart player though, 2/3rd line tweener.

If anyone remembers the World Championship he played in after his breakout season (he would have been 24/25) alongside Rick Nash... That was something incredible to watch; I think most Flames fans were thinking... boy alongside talent like this... we have a PPG player.

In the late 2000's this guy was on the verge of being a 20 goal guys, 50 point guy yearly. It's hard not to get excited over a 24/25 year old having a 20/20+ season; especially when he's shown year over year improvement. That concussion ended his career more or less; he would still be a 40-50 point guy in the league... He had speed to burn, with a little bit of skill (as you mention, not great hands or shot); I think had he not had that concussion; he'd be a 10-15 goal guy and 20-30 assist guy in the league... pretty much what you want from your 2/3 tweener (MayRay type guy).