Paul Byron vs Sven Baertschi

[BVicious]

Ok, I just read an article in the Calgary Hearld...

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-speedster-fighting-through-scoring-slump

...and it got me thinking of where Sven is NOT right now.

When you watch Byron's body of work, he would be the last guy a coach like Hartley would sit.

However, Sven seems to be more consistant on the point side of hockey, so the question is, who at this point is more valuable to this team....now and the future.

Paul or Sven?

Me, honestly I would say Byron. Don't even mention his size, because he plays much bigger than 2/3rds of our team. Yes he is slumping, but it WILL turnaround for him. It has to.

I have never seen Sven play with more passion or intensity or as physical
as Byron, but if he did, he'd be elite. IMO

Click to read more...

 

[Anglesmith]

Different players. Sven isn't as much an energy guy as Byron (though he's developing that side of his game). Sven has the ability to make plays that Byron can't. Byron has the ability to skate faster than anyone else in the Flames' organization (maybe except Poirier?).

Byron right now is very effective on the fourth line, and if he's our fourth line winger going forward, I have no complaints provided the seemingly inevitable goals start to go in. The same can't be said about Sven. He's a guy who will need offensive opportunity and lots of ice and quality wingers with which to make plays. If he can't make it in our top 6, he has very little value to the organization.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Byron is the odd man out. Due to contracts and rookies knocking on the door for their chance.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

There's no debate in my mind. Byron is a guy who's good and has low enough point totals that he should remain cheap; you can probably keep him as a 4th liner if it comes to it; Baertschi would never fit on the 4th line, so I don't expect they'd be competing for spots unless they're both competing for the 3rd line LW slot. A 4th line with Bouma and Byron on it would be able to take on decently hard matchups and give the other lines a little more high ground.

 

[Master Bill]

If only they could fuse into one player, it'd be a superstar in the making - Svaul Byrtchi

 

[Calculon]

Baertschi's potential is exponentially higher than Byron's. He may not reach it, but for the long term future of the organization, investing in Baertschi is more critical.

As useful as Byron is, he's far more easily replaceable than the player Baertschi might one day turn into. That being said, Byron would be an almost ideal 13th forward even when the Flames are competitive. Well, more competitive.

 

[Lunatik]

The players are not comparable at all.

Byron is like a younger/smaller Sean Donovan and Baertschi is like Alex Tanguay.

 

[Henderson19]

25 vs. 22

 

[SaintMorose]

Sven is the guy you want on your PP and in your top 9.
Byron is a guy you never have in the top 6 or PP but please keep him cause his advanced stats are amazing on the 4th line and 4 on 4 few chances against and always chances for.

 

[Volica]

Baertschi's potential is exponentially higher than Byron's. He may not reach it, but for the long term future of the organization, investing in Baertschi is more critical.

As useful as Byron is, he's far more easily replaceable than the player Baertschi might one day turn into. That being said, Byron would be an almost ideal 13th forward even when the Flames are competitive. Well, more competitive.

I agree with this.
Byron is far from useless, I just think we've seen enough of him getting about 1 amazing chance a game and blowing it. He's a perfect 13th forward/bottom line player... But honestly, Flames need more offense in the lineup.

Moving Bouma to the forth line (Where he belongs) and moving Sven into the lineup gives you more potential goals; being perfectly honest. If you're afraid of having Sven in late game scenarios on the second line; then you can have Sven sitting for the end of the 3rd? I really hope we see #27 soon.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'll actually be shocked if Byron is on the team next year.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'll actually be shocked if Byron is on the team next year.

I'll be sobbing in a corner if he isn't.

 

[Volica]

I'll actually be shocked if Byron is on the team next year.

Don't really want to be mean, because I love what Paul has done with his physical and skill limitations in this league... But had Bob Hartley not loved him; I doubt he would have an NHL contract; sadly.

He'd probably be on some AHL team right now; not many teams need tiny, speedy grinders... His limitation is bottom line; and teams like their beef there.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Again, as I said in the previous thread, how can you not like the guy? He's recently become a parent with his first child, he plays his arse off probably more so than anyone else on the team, he plays way bigger than his size indicates, he's very fast and uses that speed to get 1 or 2 scoring chances a game. Sounds pretty great, right?

Unfortunately for Paul, he is 5'6. While he has the heart of a lion, he just lacks that skill and finish to play in the top 6, also we already have Gaudreau who is occupying that spot and I just can't justify having 2 guys at that size playing in your top 6. So then that leaves him in the bottom 6. But then look at the other options we have, Bouma, Bollig, Wolf, Ferland, BvB, Arnold, all 4th line players. For our 3rd line, we have options such as Jooris, Reinhart, Granlund, Baertschi, Poirier, Klimchuk, Colborne.

You know, like wadda guy, but where does he fit? I'm someone that believes in work ethic and heart more than most I would say, and while Byron has heart in spades, everyone on Hartley's team is working hard and the others I mentioned have physical attributes and skills that Byron simply doesn't have. I agree that if Sven played with Byron's heart that he would be a superstar, but it's not like Sven doesn't work his butt off, you can't shove Sven to the side for Byron either because all things being equal, if Sven hits his ceiling then he's playing on a way higher level than what Bryon is capable of playing at.

But really, I don't see this as a Byron vs Sven. Sven should be playing in the top 6, IMO he's competing against Raymond.

 

[Kovaz]

Byron's a 4th line energy guy with crazy speed and good possession numbers, him on the 4th line is a position I'm totally happy with and I don't think Baertschi's competing with him. For 600k or whatever we're paying Byron he's been great.

A better comparison for Baertschi would be Raymond, since we're paying him 3m and we've been putting him in a scoring role. Since I assume the theme of this thread is "who do we take out of the lineup to make room for Baertschi."

Since November 1st:

Raymond:
17 GP 1 Goal 1 Assist 2 Points -6 14:00 avg ice time

Baertschi
14 GP 0 Goals 3 Assists 3 Points -4 8:55 avg ice time (NHL)
19 GP 5 Goals 10 Assists 15 Points +9 (AHL)

Outside of a hat-trick against the Oilers and a 3-point night against Winnipeg, Raymond's produced 3 points in his other 27 games.

 

[Anglesmith]

Byron's a 4th line energy guy with crazy speed and good possession numbers, him on the 4th line is a position I'm totally happy with and I don't think Baertschi's competing with him. For 600k or whatever we're paying Byron he's been great.

A better comparison for Baertschi would be Raymond, since we're paying him 3m and we've been putting him in a scoring role. Since I assume the theme of this thread is "who do we take out of the lineup to make room for Baertschi."

Since November 1st:

Raymond:
17 GP 1 Goal 1 Assist 2 Points -6 14:00 avg ice time

Baertschi
14 GP 0 Goals 3 Assists 3 Points -4 8:55 avg ice time (NHL)
19 GP 5 Goals 10 Assists 15 Points +9 (AHL)

Outside of a hat-trick against the Oilers and a 3-point night against Winnipeg, Raymond's produced 3 points in his other 27 games.

All good points. Raymond is a good comparable for Baertschi. But if the argument is to be made that Baertschi should be replacing Raymond in the lineup, then it needs to be pointed out that due to the contract we signed with Raymond, he's likely going to be here for three years, productive or not.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

All good points. Raymond is a good comparable for Baertschi. But if the argument is to be made that Baertschi should be replacing Raymond in the lineup, then it needs to be pointed out that due to the contract we signed with Raymond, he's likely going to be here for three years, productive or not.

I think Raymond is here for this season no matter what, but next year when Sven loses his waiver exemption that greatly changes things. I know people have said that Sven could simply take Glencross' spot should he leave, and while that makes logical sense I don't quite see it that way. Glencross and Baertschi are extremely different players and Curtis has many intangibles that Sven does not provide. I also believe that Ferland will be up full time next season so I actually think that he will be taking the spot of Glencross as he provides more of that grit and Hartley and Co. place a great emphasis on.

IMO, next season Sven needs to beat out Raymond. And if Sven cannot do that, he's likely done as a Flame. And conversely, if Raymond cannot out produce Sven, I expect that he will either be moved, waived or demoted. No matter what, both those guys are going to head into training camp knowing what they have to do and who they are competing against, and that is an excellent thing. It will bring out the best in both players. My hope is that, Sven beats out Raymond but Raymond still performs at a high level which will allow him to be traded in lieu of just outright waiving him.

So next season, on the LW we have Gaudreau, Sven, Ferland and Bouma.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'll actually be shocked if Byron is on the team next year.

I'll be mildly surprised if Baertschi is still with the organization next year.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'll be mildly surprised if Baertschi is still with the organization next year.

I think whether or not he's still with us is up to him. I'm still hopeful he's going to rise to expectations which would make him untradeable, but it is a fact that guys bust or never live up to expectations, so I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[Rockmorton]

If only they could fuse into one player, it'd be a superstar in the making - Svaul Byrtchi

Ha! Better call Svaul!

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Ha! Better call Svaul!

Who’s Svaul?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I think whether or not he's still with us is up to him. I'm still hopeful he's going to rise to expectations which would make him untradeable, but it is a fact that guys bust or never live up to expectations, so I wouldn't be surprised either way.

I actually think that because of his lack of trade value, coupled with the Flames owning his rights for a few years, he'll be playing in Europe.

 

[Lunatik]

I actually think that because of his lack of trade value, coupled with the Flames owning his rights for a few years, he'll be playing in Europe.

if he signs with us he needs to clear waivers to go to Europe

 

[Ace Rimmer]

if he signs with us he needs to clear waivers to go to Europe

Yeah I don't think he'll sign with us. That's why he'll be in Europe.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah I don't think he'll sign with us. That's why he'll be in Europe.

fair enough