Player Discussion: Patrik Laine

[ello]

As his agent said, expectations are too high considering he is not playing in 1st line, with 1st line center. People are expecting him to put up 1st line numbers regardless.
Don’t expect 1st line like scoring without actually playing in 1st line. It is as simple as that. Not until two or three years of physical and mental maturing.

Edit. Here is link to his agen’s comments in Finnish Patrik Laineen agentti ei ole huolissaan asiakkaansa tuloskunnosta – suomalaistähden rooli on kuitenkin "epäsuhteessa odotuksiin nähden"

IMO true superstars produce regardless of who they play with, or if they’re on the first or second line. Look at Patrick Kane who has played his entire career behind Toews on the second line and has never had a true 2C in his entire CAREER (anisimov, Richards, handzus, Shaw, etc.) or even Matthew Tkachuk today who is stapled next to backlund who produces even less than Little.

 

[KingBogo]

Idiotic deployment by Maurice is costing him another Rocket, Ross and Hart. Properly used Laine would already be at 80+ points and 40 goals.

Knowing I'm likely going to regret it, but do you really believe that Laine is that good at this point in his career and if he wasn't being sandbagged by Maurice he would be out pacing the actual Rocket, Ross and Hart candidates like Ovi, McDavid and Kucherov? If he was that good he could drag a couple 4th line/AHL tweeners and be in the discussion. I'd settle for some solid development over the back half of the season, a summer working on his skating and us getting him on a reasonable long term extension. I'm still hopeful for the kid but there is still a long ways to go, and I'd like to see him eventually earn his way to the 1st line, but the truth is at this point he still needs to be protected defensively by Little.

 

[kanadalainen]

As his agent said, expectations are too high considering he is not playing in 1st line, with 1st line center. People are expecting him to put up 1st line numbers regardless.
Don’t expect 1st line like scoring without actually playing in 1st line. It is as simple as that. Not until two or three years of physical and mental maturing.

Edit. Here is link to his agen’s comments in Finnish Patrik Laineen agentti ei ole huolissaan asiakkaansa tuloskunnosta – suomalaistähden rooli on kuitenkin "epäsuhteessa odotuksiin nähden"

Thank you @Mony Vibescu. For grins, here is the translated text:

Patrik Laine's agent is not worried about his client's performance - however, the role of the Finnish star is "disproportionate to expectations"

Kaapo Kakko, who is returning to the Finnish Championship on Friday evening, is one of the hottest names in NHL's upcoming summer reserve. Spring is also a busy time for Kakko 's agent Petteri Lehto . The next Finnish superstar, like Patrik Laine , is expected to come from Kako.

Like Kako, Laine is a customer of Lahti. Expectations for Tampere are constantly high. In November, Laine rolled the paints** out of the conveyor belt ++, but in December it slowed down. More zeros than the other numbers show; and again (with the klaxon/siren-volumed/burgeoning cacophony of) the voices of the critics.

But the agent is not concerned about his customer.

- The calendar year 2018 ended a week ago. During that year Patrik Laine scored 50 goals in 81 matches. Only Alexander Ovechkin scored more goals. I wouldn't be very worried, Lehto smiles at Yle Sports.

- For painters***, hockey is even more varied. Last year Ovetshkin won the NHL Paint Exchange, but he still had more than 40 matches where he did not score, Lehto points out.
One thing about Laine, however, is to think about Lehto. The Finns are expected to score goals and the victory of the paint exchange, but despite this, he is not playing in Winnipeg alongside Mark Scheifele .

- Patrik's role is disproportionate to expectations. Usually when a player is expected to fight for a painting****, this plays next to the first squad in the first chain*. However, for him, the situation is different, so it comes to mind that it is at the right level.

Laine has by no means lost the opportunity to win the paint market +++, even though Ovetshkin has already escaped its own decade $$. The Finns have been beating in the top of the statistics + for the whole season.

Kaapo Kakko has been compared to Laine this year, especially because the Kako booking year has traveled in many ways along a similar path to Laine. Kakko, however, is closer to the other Mikko Ranta, who fights for the victory of the entire NHL point exchange in Turku .
- Kaapo plays left as Mikko Rantanen on the right. That's the way it is in the middle of the field, so it's easier to play - not easy, because otherwise everyone would do it, Lehto laughs.

++++++++++++

Legend

** scored goals (?)
++ like Superman on laundry-folding day or like a fan-dancer in a wind-tunnel
*** goals
**** score like crazy
* line
+ dominating the fancy stats ledger
+++ the Rocket
$$ run away with the show for the past decade

(No reference to hit-feeders).

 

[Board Bard]

Thank you @Mony Vibescu. For grins, here is the translated text:

Patrik Laine's agent is not worried about his client's performance - however, the role of the Finnish star is "disproportionate to expectations"

Kaapo Kakko, who is returning to the Finnish Championship on Friday evening, is one of the hottest names in NHL's upcoming summer reserve. Spring is also a busy time for Kakko 's agent Petteri Lehto . The next Finnish superstar, like Patrik Laine , is expected to come from Kako.

Like Kako, Laine is a customer of Lahti. Expectations for Tampere are constantly high. In November, Laine rolled the paints** out of the conveyor belt ++, but in December it slowed down. More zeros than the other numbers show; and again (with the klaxon/siren-volumed/burgeoning cacophony of) the voices of the critics.

But the agent is not concerned about his customer.

- The calendar year 2018 ended a week ago. During that year Patrik Laine scored 50 goals in 81 matches. Only Alexander Ovechkin scored more goals. I wouldn't be very worried, Lehto smiles at Yle Sports.

- For painters***, hockey is even more varied. Last year Ovetshkin won the NHL Paint Exchange, but he still had more than 40 matches where he did not score, Lehto points out.
One thing about Laine, however, is to think about Lehto. The Finns are expected to score goals and the victory of the paint exchange, but despite this, he is not playing in Winnipeg alongside Mark Scheifele .

- Patrik's role is disproportionate to expectations. Usually when a player is expected to fight for a painting****, this plays next to the first squad in the first chain*. However, for him, the situation is different, so it comes to mind that it is at the right level.

Laine has by no means lost the opportunity to win the paint market +++, even though Ovetshkin has already escaped its own decade $$. The Finns have been beating in the top of the statistics + for the whole season.

Kaapo Kakko has been compared to Laine this year, especially because the Kako booking year has traveled in many ways along a similar path to Laine. Kakko, however, is closer to the other Mikko Ranta, who fights for the victory of the entire NHL point exchange in Turku .
- Kaapo plays left as Mikko Rantanen on the right. That's the way it is in the middle of the field, so it's easier to play - not easy, because otherwise everyone would do it, Lehto laughs.

++++++++++++

Legend

** scored goals (?)
++ like Superman on laundry-folding day or like a fan-dancer in a wind-tunnel
*** goals
**** score like crazy
* line
+ dominating the fancy stats ledger
+++ the Rocket
$$ run away with the show for the past decade

(No reference to hit-feeders).

Sounds like a bit of a rural society with all those paint exchanges. Had no idea the Finns were so wild about paint. But then there is the excitement of watching it dry.

 

[kanadalainen]

. Had no idea the Finns were so wild about paint.

More likely a side-effect of the limitless functionality of Google translate.

 

[King Woodballs]

Idiotic deployment by Maurice is costing him another Rocket, Ross and Hart. Properly used Laine would already be at 80+ points and 40 goals.

I personally would like to know what would be proper use of Laine.

Because as far as I am concerned he hasn’t earned the right to have Scheifele boost his production this year.

 

[behemolari]

IMO true superstars produce regardless of who they play with, or if they’re on the first or second line. Look at Patrick Kane who has played his entire career behind Toews on the second line and has never had a true 2C in his entire CAREER (anisimov, Richards, handzus, Shaw, etc.) or even Matthew Tkachuk today who is stapled next to backlund who produces even less than Little.

Who has said Laine need 1st center? Just remove him from Little line, they wont generate anything together and it's been like this over two years. How can not management see that is beyond me.

 

[JetsUK]

Laine has to earn the right to not play with Little, just as Troubadour had to earn his escape from Stu, and Niku must earn his way out of the Morrow pairing. Work hard on the boards, fight for pucks, play your cards right, Patty, and you just may get to play with Andrew Copp.

He looks injured and/or desolate out there to me lately. Haven’t seen him play with this level of apparent detachment ever. Hard to believe the Jets aren’t concerned.

 

[Jack722]

Laine has to earn the right to not play with Little, just as Troubadour has to earn his escape from Stu, and Niku must earn his way out of the Morrow pairing.

Kind of horrible examples to be honest. Trouba "earned the right to escape" his undoubted misuse by holding out for two months.

 

[Board Bard]

Work hard on the boards, fight for pucks, play your cards right, Patty, and you just may get to play with Andrew Copp.

So twue.

 

[nippanappa]

Teams Laine has scored on this year:

St. Louis
Carolina
Vancouver
Florida
Colorado
Calgary
Minnesota
Chicago
Edmonton

of which only 3 are playoff teams

Thanks for sharing this, it's pretty interesting and also quite alarming. Every team in the league knows what Laine can do when he has space and it's seen clearly in this season. He gets pressured a lot earlier in the offensive zone than other guys.

That's why Laine needs to get faster and stronger to outweight the opposition. So far his development in NHL regarding these have been dissappointing, there's no way around it. However, he's still extremely young so there's hope to see him dominate. I don't want Laine to settle in as a sniper as he is snow but to train for being the best player in the league, he has all the tools for it.

 

[Ducky10]

I personally would like to know what would be proper use of Laine.

Because as far as I am concerned he hasn’t earned the right to have Scheifele boost his production this year.

What does earned the right have to do with it? If Scheifele boosts his production and that in turn help the team, that's what Maurice should do. It's about what works best, not merit badges .

There are crazier things than suggesting Laine play with Scheifele. Many I've read right here on Hfjets .

 

[Gotaf7]

I wish Maurice would play him with Sheif for a game just to shut up the homers, he is not giving even close to a NHL level effort, putting him with Sheifs wont do a damn thing except kill Sheifs game.

 

[Psych0dad]

I wish Maurice would play him with Sheif for a game just to shut up the homers, he is not giving even close to a NHL level effort, putting him with Sheifs wont do a damn thing except kill Sheifs game.

Like last time? Or how he killed Stastnys or Copps game?

Yeah lets see that for a while and see who is right. I'm all for it.

That would solve the first lines and Laines production issues.

 

[King Woodballs]

What does earned the right have to do with it? If Scheifele boosts his production and that in turn help the team, that's what Maurice should do. It's about what works best, not merit badges .

There are crazier things than suggesting Laine play with Scheifele. Many I've read right here on Hfjets .

Because you will sacrifice someone else's production to boost Laine's. Like wheelers. So at the end of the day what does it matter?

The jets only have one Scheifele. He can't help everyone.

Although wheeler could probably survive a lot better without Scheifele than Laine has
So if the jets were to try it for a few games to try and give Laine a boost. Ok.
But the jets are winning and one of the best teams in the league. So doing it to boost Laine's stats is a stupid reason.
If the jets were losing that's a different story.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Knowing I'm likely going to regret it, but do you really believe that Laine is that good at this point in his career and if he wasn't being sandbagged by Maurice he would be out pacing the actual Rocket, Ross and Hart candidates like Ovi, McDavid and Kucherov? If he was that good he could drag a couple 4th line/AHL tweeners and be in the discussion. I'd settle for some solid development over the back half of the season, a summer working on his skating and us getting him on a reasonable long term extension. I'm still hopeful for the kid but there is still a long ways to go, and I'd like to see him eventually earn his way to the 1st line, but the truth is at this point he still needs to be protected defensively by Little.

His skating needs to improve! (He's definitely not a Frank Mahovlich.)

 

[Ducky10]

Because you will sacrifice someone else's production to boost Laine's. Like wheelers. So at the end of the day what does it matter?

The jets only have one Scheifele. He can't help everyone.

Although wheeler could probably survive a lot better without Scheifele than Laine has
So if the jets were to try it for a few games to try and give Laine a boost. Ok.
But the jets are winning and one of the best teams in the league. So doing it to boost Laine's stats is a stupid reason.
If the jets were losing that's a different story.

It's not about boosting Laine's stats. I could give a shit about that. It's also purely conjecture to say boosting Laine's output would come at the expense of someone else. It's just about finding some more balance imo, it's something that could potentially benefit both lines, we don't really know that. At the end of the day finding something that could get Laine going more is pretty beneficial to the Jets imo.

 

[Duke749]

Who has said Laine need 1st center? Just remove him from Little line, they wont generate anything together and it's been like this over two years. How can not management see that is beyond me.

Because ultimately it’s been Laine who has been responsible for that. Look at a guy like MacKinnon. Produced big time in his first season and then stagnated a bit for a couple year and then absolutely exploded last year. Kids this young don’t just come in knocking the door down over and over. Almost all of them hit a wall. The Crosby’s and McDavid’s are the exception but most aren’t like that.

 

[Psych0dad]

Because you will sacrifice someone else's production to boost Laine's. Like wheelers. So at the end of the day what does it matter?

What production? Wheeler 5 on 5 produces a lot?

One of them is capable of scoring 16-20 goals a month demonstrably with a good offensive center. The other can score that many in a season with the same circumstance.

Even if 2nd line killed Wheelers 5 on 5 production, if it upped Laine back to the level he was with Scheif or Stastny, the Jets are far better off with that trade off. Wheelers 5 on 5 production can't drop much because it's already low. We have clear evidence Laines production ceiling in right circumstances is sky high.

They are both near the same production floor. One is capable of multiplying his 5 on 5 numbers. One is already at his production ceiling and it's nothing to write home about. One isn't anywhere near his ceiling and Jets are leaving goals on the bench. I prefer changes that are good for the Jets, not for the Vets.

 

[Psych0dad]

It's not about boosting Laine's stats. I could give a **** about that. It's also purely conjecture to say boosting Laine's output would come at the expense of someone else. It's just about finding some more balance imo, it's something that could potentially benefit both lines, we don't really know that. At the end of the day finding something that could get Laine going more is pretty beneficial to the Jets imo.

Exactly. Laine benefits, Jets benefit. Don't get why that escapes many.

 

[Ducky10]

Exactly. Laine benefits, Jets benefit. Don't get why that escapes many.

Could benefit.

 

[JetsUK]

Kind of horrible examples to be honest. Trouba "earned the right to escape" his undoubted misuse by holding out for two months.

Horrible how? My point was and is that "earn" looks a lot like the misuse you mention in a surprising number of cases. I get that the concert of "earning" still holds way in some hockey circles but it seems like a missed opportunity to make a team better to me. How have our PP1 earned their ice time recently? We're talking about elite, highly-paid athletes, not kids doing a few chores to earn their screen time or allowance. How did Morrow earn his ice time over, say, Poolman (if uninjured) or Niku or anyone else during his blisteringly bad opening to the season? Sure, if a player is slacking, prod or even bench him. Why should it have anything to do with the optimization of lines and teams?

Tanev is a player who has "earned" his spot this season, but he's never going to score like Laine can. So did Laine earn his corn in November but not in October or December? Does a player earn week by week? Game by game? Shift by shift? I just think the concept fails to hold up to scrutiny. because it isn't ultimately about skill or worth or even brute effort, but about satisfying an obscure and shifting set of expectations that includes things like seniority and hierarchy and coach preferences. IMO.

 

[Psych0dad]

If you divided the goal production of all Jets players with their salary, you could get a number of how much each goal has cost.

I guarantee you Laine is at the top with goals costing the least. So earning...?

 

[Psych0dad]

Horrible how? My point was and is that "earn" looks a lot like the misuse you mention in a surprising number of cases. I get that the concert of "earning" still holds way in some hockey circles but it seems like a missed opportunity to make a team better to me. How have our PP1 earned their ice time recently? We're talking about elite, highly-paid athletes, not kids doing a few chores to earn their screen time or allowance. How did Morrow earn his ice time over, say, Poolman (if uninjured) or Niku or anyone else during his blisteringly bad opening to the season? Sure, if a player is slacking, prod or even bench him. Why should it have anything to do with the optimization of lines and teams?

Tanev is a player who has "earned" his spot this season, but he's never going to score like Laine can. So did Laine earn his corn in November but not in October or December? Does a player earn week by week? Game by game? Shift by shift? I just think the concept fails to hold up to scrutiny. because it isn't ultimately about skill or worth or even brute effort, but about satisfying an obscure and shifting set of expectations that includes things like seniority and hierarchy and coach preferences. IMO.

This is easy to agree with.

What is earning and what criteria does it go by? Many argue it strictly through a subjective eye test. And they expect that to be accurate even when facts disagree.

It's belief based earning. "I like his style so he belongs", despite numbers to the contrary.

If only carrot has worked (every time) the solution simply cannot be more stick.

 

[LowLefty]

just not true at all. laine thinks the game better than anybody on the team not named scheifele, whom he's at least on par with in that aspect. his offensive processing and instincts are especially off the charts ridiculous, possibly better than 55 which seems almost impossible when you think about it.

I'd agree that his instincts and ability to think are top shelf - very difficult to fault this area of his game.
But I also think his body is unable to keep up with what his head is processing.
That might be one of the factors delaying his progression to the first line.

Maybe keep up with Little before you move him up with Scheif and Wheels - and I'm not talking about outright speed - I'm referring to the pace of the game that Wheels - Scheif - Connor / Ehlers play.

This isn't a shot at Laine - it's a valid point. He's need to work harder on the fundamentals of this game - no better place to do that than with a guy like Little who can take a little pressure off the mistakes.

Nobody within the Jets org appears to be pressuring Laine to fill the net at this point - it's looks like the are leaving him where he is to learn, patiently.
Good approach IMO.