Patrik Laine. You gotta move your feet...or do that.

[grieves]

I haven't checked but if I would take say, 30 random superstars from the past 30 years and see how their first years in the NHL went, I'd bet good money that most of them did not have linear development.

I'd take that bet for sure.

Of course if we are talking about points, there are a lot of things that can affect it. Team systems, quality of linemates, quality of opposition, ice-time etc.

 

[Kale Hulls]

it was a gambit play but it paid off.

 

[Turin]

Laine is a horrendous skater when he’s not in his absolute top gear and his stick is too long to be practical in 90% of NHL situations. That he’s still a 40 goal guy despite his severe rawness as a player speaks a lot to that shot.

 

[NyQuil]

There's no way to prepare for the NHL playoffs without being in them a few times.

 

[RageQuit77]

Fellas fight over an undead corpse of 20yo, 2 seasons 80G NHL-'vet' under performing in his first NHL-playoffs against expectations placed on him.

Ovi will be The King, until someone, someday will overthrow him from his throne.

Until then Laine will be The Crown Prince, unless someone else come to public actually making the claim.

And everything was ok, very well, and happy in a Kingdom, under the bright sun.

Long live the King!

 

[Big Cactus]

Or you are just an Ovechkin fanboy, whom can’t admit to himself what a defensive liability and a bad team player he was in his ”prime”? You pretty much prove it with how you just posted. So don’t come here preaching about objectivity, when you obviously don't have a clue what it really means.

Says the guy with laine is his avatar... my whole point was that both players are fantastic, I’m able to take a step back and see that. Your judgement is clearly clouded by your love for laine and that’s fine he’s a hell of a player. But when you call the greatest goal scorer of all time overrated your opinion loses its value. The stats don’t lie dude. Look at era adjusted goals and see where ovechkin ends up. Hint it’s pretty high.

Dude I’m not even a caps fan but you have to recognize talent. You go on and on about ‘people get blinded by goals’ and ‘ahhh defence’. You wouldn’t take Erik karlsson on your team? I sure would. Ovi absolutely. Even defensive trophy’s like the Selke and the Norris heavily rely on offensive statistics to chose a winner so don’t parade around saying people get blinded by goals. That’s how you win games fella.

 

[RageQuit77]

Welcome to the boards @Big Cactus

 

[Ippenator]

Says the guy with laine is his avatar... my whole point was that both players are fantastic, I’m able to take a step back and see that. Your judgement is clearly clouded by your love for laine and that’s fine he’s a hell of a player. But when you call the greatest goal scorer of all time overrated your opinion loses its value. The stats don’t lie dude. Look at era adjusted goals and see where ovechkin ends up. Hint it’s pretty high.

Dude I’m not even a caps fan but you have to recognize talent. You go on and on about ‘people get blinded by goals’ and ‘ahhh defence’. You wouldn’t take Erik karlsson on your team? I sure would. Ovi absolutely. Even defensive trophy’s like the Selke and the Norris heavily rely on offensive statistics to chose a winner so don’t parade around saying people get blinded by goals. That’s how you win games fella.

As I have said already many times. My dislike is specificly towards the reckless ”prime” Ovechkin that some people seem to be blindly admiring. I see that version of Ovechkin pretty much like ”prime” Brett Hull. The best goal scorer of his time, but so bad as a team player that their teams had no chances of winning anything big partly because of them not helping their teammates responsibly enough. And it was mostly because of attitude with them both.

At least Hull learned to play pretty well in a responsible way and really started playing pretty ok defence later in his career. It even paid off for him in the end, and it might in fact happen with Ovechkin too, as he has truly started especially this season playing more responsibly defensively. And he has had at least ok development with that for already a few years. But the guy was so reckless and bad as a teammate for so long that he truly managed to get my whole hearted dislike towards him. I find practically impossible to wish him any success even nowadays.

And please understand that this has absolutely nothing to do with Laine. My opinion on Ovechkin was formed already almost 10 years ago, when I knew absolutely nothing about Laine. Heck, I wouldn't be here even comparing them to each others unless you Ovechkin fans wouldn’t keep bringing him to Laine’s thread. I think it should be really about Laine and not Ovechkin, Matthews or whomever else irrelevant.

Oh, and my previous avatar was having Pulju, Laine and Aho. But when the site changed for some reason Pulju and Aho were not anymore fitting to the avatar picture here. So now I changed it to Laine and Aho, as they are both magnificent Finnish talents, that I think will surprise a huge amount of hockey people in the future. I can still admit Laine’s flaws that are definitely his first steps and also in my opinion quite much lacking stamina. Also he needs more experience for sure. But still too many people are bashing at him and don’t seem to see anything else but the shot. They are all very wrong, and in for a big upset in the future. But anyway, I can admit Laine’s weaknesses when they truly are that. But I will also defend him against senseless bashing for sure.

 

[Schooner]

Yes, but not with the cost of how Ovechkin played towards his teammates in his ”prime”. There are still basic things that every player should take care of before I can accept their effort as goalscorers. And making backchecking with some real effort is definitely one of those things..

You act like Laine is some kind of tw0-way dynamo. Laine is an incredible player and he has improved at his two-way game over the last two seasons, but lets not pretend he is a Selke contender compared to early day Ovi


...."You are wrong post" incoming...

 

[Ippenator]

You act like Laine is some kind of tw0-way dynamo. Laine is an incredible player and he has improved at his two-way game over the last two seasons, but lets not pretend he is a Selke contender compared to early day Ovi


...."You are wrong post" incoming...

Short answer. I have never claimed that Laine is any kind of selke class defensive player. Mostly because how he has those problems with his first steps with his skating. But Laine has still always good effort with playing defence, which absolutely couldnt be said about Ovechkin. And that’s a huge difference there.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'm more interested in Laine's golf swing.

I look forward to seeing videos of it next week

 

[Legend123]

Is it just me or does this kid not move at all?

 

[behemolari]

This thread is insulting to Ovi. Laine isn't 20% the player Ovechkin was at that age. Laine does have probably the best shot in the NHL right now though.

how was it in Russia, you were watching games there?

 

[ItchyScratchy77]

Laine was touted as a beast in playoff scenarios. More like a chipmunk. 20, so far does not look good in him at all.

 

[kylbaz]

Laine is a horrendous skater when he’s not in his absolute top gear and his stick is too long to be practical in 90% of NHL situations. That he’s still a 40 goal guy despite his severe rawness as a player speaks a lot to that shot.

I said this from his first season. He has a lot to improve upon and if he can, he can be generational. On just having a shot alone he's a 40+ goal scorer, so if he can bring his other skills which are lacking (pretty much everything), he would be untouchable. Laine forgets he's in the NHL sometimes and his slow stick work around guys doesn't work here.

 

[North Cole]

That doesn't really matter. Europe is not a specific set of united norms. What you're thinking is the EU. Europe is a continent. It's not up to me or you or even Putin to decide where to draw the new lines of continents now is it?

That is exactly my point.... His claim is that - it's beneficial for European players to join the NHL later because they develop slower. This is a blanket statement and is totally unproven. A person born in Europe is not genetically predisposed to developing slower then someone born in another continent. So if OV was born in Asia instead of continental Europe, he would have been able to join the NHL sooner? The basis of his argument about why you cannot compare Current Laine to OV's rookie season, is because of his geographic birthplace giving him a disadvantage. That is totally unproven, yet he keeps doubling down on it.

Ovechkin being born on continental Europe has nothing to do with his development curve and him being better off joining the NHL at 20 instead of 18. The RSL/KHL is considered to be the second best league in the world. Futhermore he was born into a rich family in Moscow. There is absolutely no evidence that Laine would benefit from staying in Scandinavia for an extra couple years, and then to cite the fact that they are both "European" so therefore comparable, is hilarious. Their development paths would have most likely been very different had Laine stayed in "Europe".

On the Flip side, Canada doesn't produce a ridiculous amount of NHL talent because we are North American. It is because it is one of our national sports and we have the junior leagues/development programs to create this success. I would argue Culture/Nationality has more of an effect on your development at a young age then which continent you happen to be placed on. If it was as easy as just being North American, then we would split NHL enrollment percentages with the US.

For the record, this is his statement which I refute:

"I prefer European players to go to North America only when they are physically more ready for it. In the same way as it went for Ovechkin. Or even better, how it went for Selänne. It would have been in fact better for Laine to do that way too. But we have what we have..."​

 

[North Cole]

You are seriously making it way too easy.



Too much off topic nonsense in your post otherwise to answer more to it.

Sending me a propaganda filled isolationist video is an interesting response. I laughed when I saw that video last year. Putin considers Russia of European Heritage, but does not associate himself with current European views. In that video he slams the US and the EU in that video for their inability to keep certain groups out of their countries.

Tell me again how an isolationist political video helps you prove this statement where you correlated Ovechkin and Laine's development paths:

I prefer European players to go to North America only when they are physically more ready for it. In the same way as it went for Ovechkin. Or even better, how it went for Selänne. It would have been in fact better for Laine to do that way too. But we have what we have...​

I assure you, it isn't off topic at all, you just won't answer it because you have no idea what you are saying. You cannot make blanket comparison statements about people on a continent. You are making a point that players born on Continental Europe are comparable in how they develop and when they should enroll in the NHL. You ignore national culture, national identity, family economic means, and strength of development programs between countries; among other variables. Players in Finland do not develop the same as the Players in Russia. Players in Canada do not develop the same as Players in the US. The national programs are entirely different.....Laine does not use his size that often, not in the way Ovechkin uses his. This would some how magically change if he stayed in Europe for an extra year? Last I checked the RSL/KHL does not use bigger ice surfaces and are better leagues then any in the EU. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Laine waiting to join the NHL would benefit him because it benefited Ovechkin. False Equivalence.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I'm more interested in Laine's golf swing.

I look forward to seeing videos of it next week

 

[EhlersChin]

I was told was Ratatula had 29 on a training program where he would thrive late in the season. What a absolute disappointment this has been. Hopefully he swallows his ego and learns from some pros. 29 is looking to be 3rd best from 2016 draft. 34 and now Sergachev it appears has passed him. As as jets fan to call Laines post season a disappointment is a major understatement. Wish he was half the player 55 is.

 

[Turin]

I was told was Ratatula had 29 on a training program where he would thrive late in the season. What a absolute disappointment this has been. Hopefully he swallows his ego and learns from some pros. 29 is looking to be 3rd best from 2016 draft. 34 and now Sergachev it appears has passed him. As as jets fan to call Laines post season a disappointment is a major understatement. Wish he was half the player 55 is.

The guy is 19. Ovechkin wasn’t even in the NHL at his age. He’s a raw talent who’s going to go through some really ugly stretches, especially in his first playoffs. You know what 55 looked like at 19 in the NHL? Sh*t.

 

[winnipegger]

If we're talking about personalities Laine comes off ten times more cocky than ovechkin but I guess that's having good onfidence when he's a finn right?

Since a very few vocal minority think prime ovechkin sucked and made the caps lose I'm going to link a highlight pack of his 2009 playoffs I found on youtube so everyone can enjoy themselves.

Prime Ovi was the best skater in the league. Along with the best shooter. Crazy combination. He is 24 in that video and in his prime.

Pate probably has the best shot in the league (you can argue anyways), but nowhere near the best skater. Probably below average skater compared to the league. Obvious where his improvement as a player will come.

 

[BL92]

Prime Ovi was the best skater in the league. Along with the best shooter. Crazy combination. He is 24 in that video and in his prime.

Pate probably has the best shot in the league (you can argue anyways), but nowhere near the best skater. Probably below average skater compared to the league. Obvious where his improvement as a player will come.

Exactly. Pate really needs to improve on his skating to become a prime threat. I'm sure he has the tools to do this.

 

[kelsier]

I know. I also know no-one is really interested in changing your mind. We just occasionally make fun of you (sort of in Ovechkin hillbilly style which you don't really get) and move on. Trust me. nobody here cares enough about your opinion to actually do nothing more than yank your chains.

What a classless post, truly and at the same time you brag about adding people on the ignore list. Okay.

One has to wonder that for a player who wins the Rocket Richard trophy, how beyond the world can it be even possible for the same player to finish in the bottom 3 in +/- when the particular skater isn't even playing PK. Ovechkin was horrible in his own end (partly because they allowed him to and partly due to his own preferences) and if there's one thing I'm glad of, it's that at least the leach is much shorter in the Jets bench for to allow that ever to happen. Luckily they teach you responsibility even in the FEL, if you want to have any business getting on the ice. So far I haven't seen any signs of Laine trying to cheat on the defense. He seems to understand that what is good for the team, also serves his interests.

I was told was Ratatula had 29 on a training program where he would thrive late in the season. What a absolute disappointment this has been. Hopefully he swallows his ego and learns from some pros. 29 is looking to be 3rd best from 2016 draft. 34 and now Sergachev it appears has passed him. As as jets fan to call Laines post season a disappointment is a major understatement. Wish he was half the player 55 is.

Wait, we talking about the same 34 who has not ever been able to get past the first round of the playoffs in his entire career of professional hockey (yeah that visit to Switzerland included)?
At least Laine has showed up on the ice and in fact is still showing up. Meanwhile the certain person who some media folks rated as 4th best NHL center in 2017-18 (hah what a joke) is playing golf in the Arizona requiring comfort and support by his coach when spending time off the course.


Anyway back to the topic. Their line was able to apply pressure in the last game and there's still tons of time to score goals. Now normally I don't believe in such things as luck what comes to hockey, but is this for real? That was like fifth post on these playoffs so if there's a hockey god out there, I don't know what he's done to piss him off so badly.

As a huge fan of Laine, his point count means nothing as long as the team makes it to the finals and even far less compared to getting a Stanley Cup ring from his first playoffs. He has all the time and all the tools in the world to become a playoff warrior. So far he's been playing just fine for a player who just a month ago was still called a teenager. I don't know why he needs to be compared to Ovechkin all the time, when Ovechkin wasn't even in the league in his 19-20 yo season. Why not just focus on the player instead. Well at least unless both of their teams happen to make it to the finals. We'll get some good footage and the topic could come even just a bit more relevant then I'm sure (since while entirely different players, they are both goal scorers after all).

 

[Pip]

One has to wonder that for a player who wins the Rocket Richard trophy, how beyond the world can it be even possible for the same player to finish in the bottom 3 in +/- when the particular skater isn't even playing PK.

Lmao

 

[Kelly]

Lmao

Yikes.

That sort of comment can throw a whole opinion in the garbage.

Anyway, as for Laine's playoffs the kid is 19 -- time and space is always tighter in the playoffs and Laine will have to learn to adapt to it, which he will at some point. Same goes for 34, and others. The NHL is a tough league as it is, but the playoffs are a whole different kind of beast.

Ovy is the best goal scorer of our generation, and could be the best ever -- Laine supporters always get way too ahead of themselves when comparing him to different players, they did it last year and it seems they're doing it again this year.

Anyway, the kids will be all right.