Patrik Laine III: We’ve got questions, he’s got answers

[BullLund]

Is Laine the chicken or the egg?

Laine is the finisher to the play, but not the guy you should rely on to make that play.

If the team is relying on Laine to carry the puck into the zone, or making the passes, they're doing it wrong. That's not to say that he can't occasionally carry the puck or make a pass but more often than not it should be someone else.

 

[Monk]

Laine is the finisher to the play, but not the guy you should rely on to make that play.

If the team is relying on Laine to carry the puck into the zone, or making the passes, they're doing it wrong. That's not to say that he can't occasionally carry the puck or make a pass but more often than not it should be someone else.

Sounds like he's the rooster then I guess.

 

[Ippenator]

Meh. I'm not really trying to get into a Laine debate with Finns having watched that play out many times before. He was only 18, he had a back injury, he was on a new team during covid, whatever.

I'm rooting for him and hope he crushes it this year.

The thing is still that he has had three good seasons and two bad seasons during his five season long NHL career. Even all of us Finns admit that. Whatever the reasons behind the two bad seasons are, they don’t change the fact that he has still had majority of his seasons going pretty well, which isnt really terrible for a young player even despite the two bad seasons.

Sure it would be now important that he becomes more consistant than he has been before, but at the moment I would honestly leave, for at least a while, the expectations of him crushing the league. Otherwise there will just be disappointments again. At least it will absolutely not happen if he is expected to be already the player that makes average linemates better. He definitely will not be able to do that, at the moment at least, and quite possibly he will never be that type of a player.

Anyway Laine is that rare type of a player with his skillset, that if he is used right with the right kind of players, he can be the very important piece of the puzzle that decides championships. Not all teams can use these kind of players right, and I’m not yet sure if Columbus and Laine can match well. But at least right now it looks to me a bit more positive with a playmaker in Voracek and some really talented prospects in the pipeline. Now it would of course be very helpful if Laine will be able to even partially fix some of his weaknesses.

In my opinion his biggest weaknesses come from not being very physically gifted for a professional hockey player. He just doesn’t have too much of fast twitch muscle cells, which means that it is pretty limited how much he can improve his explosiveness. He doesn’t also seem to have too good stamina, and that hasn’t been much fixed yet, as his training has so far been more focused on gaining more explosiveness to his legs, although without much of progress sadly. Unfortunately it’s not possible to train very efficiently both explosiveness and stamina at the same time, which means that so far Laine’s training hasn’t been too much focusing in improving his stamina, as it would probably have to be. But at least now I have understood that training with Barkov has brought more of the stamina training to Laine’s off season.

Hopefully we will see some improvement already this season, but again I wouldn’t expect a huge improvement, unless I wanted to get disappointed. He just doesn’t seem like a physically gifted player, which just might simply mean that he will always need to have the right kind of linemates to be the missing and decisive piece of the puzzle.

 

[Monstershockey]

So Laine is so great that we have to have perfect linemates for him to be great, but don't expect his greatness to make his linemates better. Got it.

 

[Ippenator]

So Laine is so great that we have to have perfect linemates for him to be great, but don't expect his greatness to make his linemates better. Got it.

No. you really didn’t get it at all. But I have understood that this is a pretty popular approach nowadays that many people refuse to understand people as individuals with strengths and weaknesses. I bump into it way too often even in my job unfortunately.

Smart leaders understand that you can’t make everyone good at everything, but you usually can use everyones special talent well, but only if they can be really supported in the right environment. But if you don’t have the right kind of environment or can’t do changes to the environment so that it can better support the talent of your people then don’t hire those kind of people that don’t fit to your present environment.

 

[Ippenator]

So Laine is so great that we have to have perfect linemates for him to be great, but don't expect his greatness to make his linemates better. Got it.

And btw, I also clearly said that Laine will not make average linemates better with his weaknesses. But he can help very good players use their special talents a lot better with his special talents, as long as their talents match well. For example if he gets to play with a good playmaker with also some pretty good goalscoring skills, Laine’s great shooting skills and very good passing skills as well, can help that linemate get more assists as well as more goals. And when they both benefit well like this, their team will also benefit with the better amount of scored goals. And if they have a really good puck hound with some skill too, they will also improve the odds of getting control of the game and getting more chances of using their high effectiveness in scoring goals as well as assisting them. The better this combination is the better 5 on 5 goal difference they well achieve, despite some of Laine’s weaknesses.

 

[stevo61]

So Laine is so great that we have to have perfect linemates for him to be great, but don't expect his greatness to make his linemates better. Got it.

Hes an elite shooter with good playmaking but limited puck handling skills. He will make linemates who get him the puck in good area's better.
Just like current day Ovechkin he relies on teammates more than young Ovi.

Ovi has Backstrom, Matthews has Marner, Pasta has Marchand but we are supposed to be angry at Laine because the team had to go get Voracek? Sure he could grow up but its not like he blew some amazing oppurtunity. If he fails that hard again though then he can kiss his pay day goodbye

 

[Monstershockey]

No. you really didn’t get it at all. But I have understood that this is a pretty popular approach nowadays that many people refuse to understand people as individuals with strengths and weaknesses. I bump into it way too often even in my job unfortunately.

Smart leaders understand that you can’t make everyone good at everything, but you usually can use everyones special talent well, but only if they can be really supported in the right environment. But if you don’t have the right kind of environment or can’t do changes to the environment so that it can better support the talent of your people then don’t hire those kind of people that don’t fit to your present environment.

If you don't have the right environment to use a players special talent, and he isn't talented enough to contribute another way, then he probably isn't that special of a player. Even if you have the right players to help him, and the opposing defence shuts him down, what, we can't rely on him to help in other ways? Columbus was doing him a favor trying to make him less one-dimensional. Just think how good he could be if he learns to do other aspects of the game well.

 

[Monk]

strengths and weaknesses..

This is what the entire conversation has been about over the past 2 pages. There is concern that Laine's weaknesses outweigh his strengths. I'm happy to leave it up to the coaches to try to make it so his strengths outweigh his weaknesses instead, and that's what we're all rooting for. What else is there to say?

 

[Ippenator]

This is literally what the entire conversation has been about over the past 2 pages. There is concern that Laine's weaknesses outweigh his strengths. I'm happy to leave it up to the coaches to try to make it so his strengths outweigh his weaknesses instead, and that's what we're all rooting for. What else is there to say?

Well I guess we agree about this fundamental. We just seem to think differently of what would be the solution, or if there even is a solution. At least in Columbus. I might see the chance of it happening in Columbus, but lets see, this season should tell a lot already.

 

[Monk]

We just seem to think differently of what would be the solution, or if there even is a solution..

We don't disagree on the solution because I have no idea what it is. Like I said - good luck coaches, we're all rooting for you.

 

[tunnelvision]

But if you don’t have the right kind of environment or can’t do changes to the environment so that it can better support the talent of your people then don’t hire those kind of people that don’t fit to your present environment

I don't believe Jarmo went for Laine because he saw him as a perfectly fitting piece to the already existing puzzle in Columbus, it had more to do with getting the best possible return for PLD. Laine can be a long term solution to our top 6 needs but there is no certainty at all that he'll be here beyond this season. IMO for now he's seen more as a trade asset than a core piece of the future SC contender group / important member in a successful work environment.

 

[VT]

In short - we'll see...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think the heart of the matter is what should be expected from the player and, subsequently, how much you should expect to have to compensate the player.

A player who does not elevate his teammates absent specific conditions, and who requires those conditions to be constructed by others, even one with a special gift, is not elite.

And that is not the fault of an organization.

 

[Ippenator]

Hes an elite shooter with good playmaking but limited puck handling skills. He will make linemates who get him the puck in good area's better.
Just like current day Ovechkin he relies on teammates more than young Ovi.

Ovi has Backstrom, Matthews has Marner, Pasta has Marchand but we are supposed to be angry at Laine because the team had to go get Voracek? Sure he could grow up but its not like he blew some amazing oppurtunity. If he fails that hard again though then he can kiss his pay day goodbye

I agree with you otherwise, but I think that even his puck handling skills wouldn’t be as limited as they seem, if he could fix the physical issues. What I mean is that if he can fix his agility, acceleration and fitness problems, it would first of all help him gain a bit more of time and space for himself with the puck (very important especially in the small rinks in the NHL), and it would also (through better stamina) help him be sharper and more accurate with the puck through the whole shift. He does seem to have even pretty good puck handling skills when he can get even a bit more space and wouldn’t get so quickly tired on his shift.

But it’s a big question if he will really be able to fix those physical issues well enough? I’m not too convinced that he can fix them very much. Also he needs to learn how to use his big body a lot better in protecting the puck. That is something that he also pretty much sucks in at the moment unfortunately.

 

[Ippenator]

I don't believe Jarmo went for Laine because he saw him as a perfectly fitting piece to the already existing puzzle in Columbus, it had more to do with getting the best possible return for PLD. Laine can be a long term solution to our top 6 needs but there is no certainty at all that he'll be here beyond this season. IMO for now he's seen more as a trade asset than a core piece of the future SC contender group / important member in a successful work environment.

You might very well be right. I definitely wouldn’t mind though, that Laine would be able to help Columbus enough with his strengths and even his clear weaknesses, so that both parties would want to have a mutual future for years to come. I do understand that Laine will have to improve his general play clearly for this to happen. And most likely Columbus would also have to support Laine’s play also at least a bit better than happened last season. I definitely hope this scenario could happen.

 

[Monstershockey]

Hes an elite shooter with good playmaking but limited puck handling skills. He will make linemates who get him the puck in good area's better.
Just like current day Ovechkin he relies on teammates more than young Ovi.

Ovi has Backstrom, Matthews has Marner, Pasta has Marchand but we are supposed to be angry at Laine because the team had to go get Voracek? Sure he could grow up but its not like he blew some amazing oppurtunity. If he fails that hard again though then he can kiss his pay day goodbye

I agree he relies on his team mates like a current day Ovechkin. The problem is current day Ovi is in his mid 30's and Laine in still early 20's. Ovi wasn't relying on other guys as much in his early 20's and that is the difference comparing the two.

I am not angry at Laine at all and am all for making him a better player. But if he is just hoping to be a scorer, he will still have to be better because even with better passing guys on his line, they aren't going to be perfect and he still may have to go out of his comfort zone to make plays.

I want to see him get better, but if this year is the same or just marginally better, you probably have to move him to get better. Ideally with his age, you want improvement and want him here for his prime years though.

 

[Ippenator]

I agree he relies on his team mates like a current day Ovechkin. The problem is current day Ovi is in his mid 30's and Laine in still early 20's. Ovi wasn't relying on other guys as much in his early 20's and that is the difference comparing the two.

I am not angry at Laine at all and am all for making him a better player. But if he is just hoping to be a scorer, he will still have to be better because even with better passing guys on his line, they aren't going to be perfect and he still may have to go out of his comfort zone to make plays.

I want to see him get better, but if this year is the same or just marginally better, you probably have to move him to get better. Ideally with his age, you want improvement and want him here for his prime years though.

Ok, I’ll leave it for now with just simply agreeing with your whole comment here. We might not after all think as differently as I first thought about Laine and the situation. Maybe just slightly different angles on looking at it.

 

[stevo61]

Voracek is such a good pick up for the team and Laine in so many reasons. Not only is he a terrific playmaker but he is a puck carrier and a big body that shields the puck. I said it before but Jagr was huge for Voracek as a player and growing up period, heres his chance to provide that to a young player who needs it like he once did.

Voracek isnt scared to speak his mind and while Laine may not always like it, its probably a lot easier getting it from teammates than a coach all the time.

 

[David OSullivan]

Laine is the finisher to the play, but not the guy you should rely on to make that play.

If the team is relying on Laine to carry the puck into the zone, or making the passes, they're doing it wrong. That's not to say that he can't occasionally carry the puck or make a pass but more often than not it should be someone else.

Exactly this. He s not the complete all rounder and it's hard to see him ever becoming this. I wish he would just concentrate on defence without the Puck and then pass to nearest man in defensive zone. Carrying the Puck through the zones should be just left to someone else. He is an amazing finisher. Follow the play and get open.

 

[MoeBartoli]

In short - we'll see...

Probably the post that sums it all up. I suppose I’m somewhat similar in mind. I see Laine scoring a minimum of 25 goals this year. Still whether his overall contribution is a positive or negative is a question yet to be answered.

(I’m hoping it is, but…..)

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

It just looks like Voracek and Laine speak the same language with the puck. There were so many little plays last night that Laine anticipated what Voracek was going to do and put a puck out ahead in space that Jake was able to get to and gain the zone. Having someone that has the vision to read what Laine needs while helping him with the transition part of the game is going to be huge.

I also saw a lot of praise for Jake’s assist on Jenner’s goal, but nothing for Laine getting the pass from dot to dot through the middle of the PK.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I also saw a lot of praise for Jake’s assist on Jenner’s goal, but nothing for Laine getting the pass from dot to dot through the middle of the PK.

This is something Laine has done consistently and very well for many years, but it has never resulted in anything because there has always been another righty receiving the pass, which instantly kills the play. Now if Jake could also find it in him to fire some solid onetimers from the pass, that would just add another level to it.

 

[majormajor]

This is something Laine has done consistently and very well for many years, but it has never resulted in anything because there has always been another righty receiving the pass, which instantly kills the play. Now if Jake could also find it in him to fire some solid onetimers from the pass, that would just add another level to it.

Don't expect that from Jake, you might need Chinakhov there for that.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Don't expect that from Jake, you might need Chinakhov there for that.

Yeah Im not actually expecting it. Just living in my preseason dream world.

Thought about Chinakov there as well, but that would probably make Patty the primary playmaker which isnt ideal. Maybe in a couple of years, but then again we have Johnson and Sillinger in the pipeline so probably not