Patrik Laine III: We’ve got questions, he’s got answers

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LetsGOJackets!!

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I was one of the biggest offenders in overhyping Laine after the trade. Also probably one of the most surprised at Roslovic's value. I'm excited to see Laine, Roslo and the team be cut loose a little bit and given the chance to be offensive. As ** said, if +/- goes severely negative there will be ramifications and less playing time.
 

VT

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Okay sorry for getting a bit rilled up, but what is the most difficult thing in hockey? Is it backchecking/forechecking, defending, passing...no it's putting the puck in the net and apart from Ovie, Pasternak, Mathews, Kucherov, Patrik is/will be among the best shooters in the league for years to come.

He is not a defensive wizzard like Mark Stone or a power forward like Josh Anderson, but that is what lines and teams are for you need different types of players and personalities to WIN. Nothing to be ashamed of with having defined roles on a line or team and Patrik is a goal scorer/game breaker, but he also learned to bakcheck during the 2019-2020 season those of you who says he does not care or does not back check, have only watched him play in Columbus.

Torts and partly Jarmo talked about turning Patrik into a true power forward last season witch IMHO is the wrong way to utalize his unique skillset. Just because he is 6'5 and 200+ lbs does not mean he will play like Alex Tuch or Brady Ketchup , just ask Laine's previous mentor Blake Wheeler who did not fill out his lanky frame until he was close to 30 years old!!

Patrik has the exact opposite bodytype to say Cole Sillinger who's already THICK at only 18 who has obviously put in a ton of time in the gym, but ask anyone on the Florida Panthers team who does the hardest off ice wotk outs and the answer is Sahsa Barkov. Patty's last two summers have not been spent playing fortnite with Alexander, but like I said don't buy a ferarri and go offroading with it.
It`t right but Patrik has some shortcomings, that he has to work on although he`s an excelent sniper. He can't be dependent on his teammates, but improve them. I hope trainings with Barkov helps him.
 

Easternbull

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I agree with you on a mix of player skill sets…

but if a player is one the ice for more goals against than goals for he’s a net negative, no matter how many goals he scores. This was the case with Laine in CBJ last year. I believe his goal differential was the worst on the team. I know some of that is line/roster related — in the same way people don’t care for +/-. But the player must take responsibility for that as well. And the eye test backed up the stat in this instance.

I expect him to be much better this year but to suggest he wasn’t bad and that you should overlook his shortcomings is a mistake.

I NEVER said he was not bad last season, I fully agree 100% with Laine's own assesment that he rely sucked last season, but don't judge him based on only watching him play one season. A lot of posters from other fanbases get on the lazy diva banwagon without ever actually watching him play in the jets.

When Patrik played in the Juniors and Tappara he did not only score but LOVED to run people over, but when he came to the NHL he could no longer rely on being bigger then the other players on the ice, but like Wheeler eventually Laine will grow into his lanky frame and round out his game.

But I think most of his hair will fall out before he fills out.
 
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Monk

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I NEVER said he was not bad last season, I fully agree 100% with Laine's own assesment that he rely sucked last season, but don't judge him based on only watching him play one season. A lot of posters from other fanbases get on the lazy diva banwagon without ever actually watching him play in the jets.

When Patrik played in the Juniors and Tappara he did not only score but LOVED to run people over, but when he came to the NHL he could no longer rely on being bigger then the other players on the ice, but like Wheeler eventually Laine will grow into his lanky frame and round out his game.

But I think most of his hair will fall out before he fills out.

I thought the main criticism isn't that he was "bad" last year, but rather that even when he scores a lot of goals (based on previous seasons) he's STILL a net negative on the team...
 

Ippenator

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I agree with you on a mix of player skill sets…

but if a player is one the ice for more goals against than goals for he’s a net negative, no matter how many goals he scores. This was the case with Laine in CBJ last year. I believe his goal differential was the worst on the team. I know some of that is line/roster related — in the same way people don’t care for +/-. But the player must take responsibility for that as well. And the eye test backed up the stat in this instance.

I expect him to be much better this year but to suggest he wasn’t bad and that you should overlook his shortcomings is a mistake.
He had a disaster of a season, and I don’t think anyone can say anything against that. But we who have been following his career since juniors, have seen that he can be a real winner, if his strengths are used right and his weaknesses are covered a bit by his teammates. He was absolutely magnificent in his last Liiga season as a 17-18 year old, and especially in the playoffs when he was the best goalscorer and was voted the MVP when he lead his team Tappara to become champions.

But the regular season wasn’t really that great and easy when he was more sheltered with reliable defensive players that were not much at all about good playmaking, but good defensively. He seemed often frustrated and had quite long occasional scoring droughts, until finally at the end of the regular season Tappara’s head coach Tapola started to use Laine more often with the team’s best playmaker Kristian Kuusela and the best puck hound and battler Jani Lajunen.

After Laine got to play more with those players, especially in the playoffs, it raised his confidence a lot and helped him play much better his own game, which can be really quite dominating as long as he has those right kind of linemates. Just don’t be foolish and expect him to dominate much by himself. We have seen it also in the 2016 WJC tournament when Finland won gold with Laine-Aho-Puljujärvi being the top line, while one of them was an underager and two of them double underagers. And the same thing was seen also when he played for the Jets.

In Winnipeg in his first season they had for some time a line combination of Laine-Scheifele-Perreault, which was practically by all stats the best Jets line for the last five years. But then relatively soon Maurice for some reason just decided to break that line although it worked really well with the strengths and weaknesses of those exact players. And the line was never tried again, which in my opinion was pure lunacy, as each of the players was playing great hockey and being very efficient. They also had a very good positive goal difference on 5 on 5 hockey.

I still don’t see why this couldn’t work as well in Columbus. It doesn’t matter if the playmaker is the other winger and the puck hound the center (this was how it was in fact in Tappara), as long as those roles are more or less combined well with Laine’s talent. Of course it will not hurt if all will be pretty good even at everything. But still, you can’t expect Laine to be the really good defence playing winger, as much as you can’t expect his linemates to shoot the puck like he does.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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I NEVER said he was not bad last season, I fully agree 100% with Laine's own assesment that he rely sucked last season, but don't judge him based on only watching him play one season. A lot of posters from other fanbases get on the lazy diva banwagon without ever actually watching him play in the jets.

True and fair, but you did imply that because he was good at scoring goals it was fair to overlook his shortcomings in other areas. To quote:

Okay sorry for getting a bit rilled up, but what is the most difficult thing in hockey? Is it backchecking/forechecking, defending, passing...no it's putting the puck in the net and apart from Ovie, Pasternak, Mathews, Kucherov, Patrik is/will be among the best shooters in the league for years to come.

This is not some "other fanbases don't get it, you haven't been watching him his whole life" thing, it's a "you can be great at scoring goals but if the rest of your game undoes the good you do, that's not helping the team win" thing.

I'll close here by again stating I am hopeful and encouraged that Laine will be a key positive contributor for the Jackets this season.
 

Ippenator

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I thought the main criticism isn't that he was "bad" last year, but rather that even when he scores a lot of goals (based on previous seasons) he's STILL a net negative on the team...

He definitely isn’t when he is used right. He was in three of his Winnipeg seasons in the top three of all the Jets players in 5 on 5 goal difference. This is something that gets way too easily overlooked when people discuss him. Sure he had one really bad season in Winnipeg too, but that was pretty much ruined by back problems (he has himself confirmed it) and it could be even quite visibly seen in his play.
 

majormajor

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He definitely isn’t when he is used right. He was in three of his Winnipeg seasons in the top three of all the Jets players in 5 on 5 goal difference. This is something that gets way too easily overlooked when people discuss him. Sure he had one really bad season in Winnipeg too, but that was pretty much ruined by back problems (he has himself confirmed it) and it could be even quite visibly seen in his play.

He definitely isn’t when he is used right shoots 18%. We'll see about used right. I think we can massively improve on last year's results by not giving Laine the puck in the neutral zone. His weak offensive impacts and bad defensive results mostly come from turnovers.
 

Easternbull

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I think Patty+ Sillinger+ Voracek will be heaps of fun to watch this season!

But I also think snipers like Kucherov for example have their own defensive wharts. Take away Point and Palat from his side and his numbers would not be pretty 5v5.

Like I said Patty needs to improve all parts of his game and I think the fans in Columbus will see and hear the "Canon from Tesomaa" alot this season.

P.S Sillinger will be an absolute stud what a pick from Jarmo and Co!!
 

Ippenator

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I don't care that last year was garbage, it's over. I don't care what he did with Winnipeg, that's over. I care what he does this year because it is what is happening now. I hope he does well this year and bounces back.
Of course. This is what we all hope, I’m sure of it. But if he is used in the wrong way, it might not change as much as we hope for.
 

Ippenator

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He definitely isn’t when he is used right shoots 18%. We'll see about used right. I think we can massively improve on last year's results by not giving Laine the puck in the neutral zone. His weak offensive impacts and bad defensive results mostly come from turnovers.
When he is used the right way, he will also have a better shooting percentage. Of course this is kind of the chicken and the egg paradox, and it’s possible to claim either way - at least for the moment. But if he gets to play with a really good playmaker and a very efficient puckhound, with at least some skill, then we will only be able to see what he can do when he is optimally used. Unless that is done, there will most probably be at least some disappointment in his play.
 
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Halberdier

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I thought the main criticism isn't that he was "bad" last year, but rather that even when he scores a lot of goals (based on previous seasons) he's STILL a net negative on the team...

Why are you using plural form there? He was net negative last season. Not seasons.
 

Monk

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Why are you using plural form there? He was net negative last season. Not seasons.

I'm not a stats guy but doesn't the 18-19 season count as a net negative based on +/- ? Though to be fair I thought it was the "advanced" stats that really reamed him more across the board.
 
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Ippenator

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I'm not a stats guy but doesn't the 18-19 season count as a net negative based on +/- ? Though to be fair I thought it was the "advanced" stats that really reamed him more across the board.
That was the season when he had a lot of the back problems. But yes it was definitely his worst season in Winnipeg. But still he had three seasons there that he was clearly positive with his 5 on 5 +/-. And in fact his last season as a Jet was probably even his best season after all. He was also in the top three in 5 on 5 +/- for his quite succesful team during his three best seasons, so it was really weird how much he was then claimed by some people to be just a power play weapon. You can’t be a clearly positive 5 on 5 +/- player for three full seasons if you are just a power play specialist.
 
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Tommigun

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Last year was so bad that there’s no words for it. The one game he played for the Jets, where he scored two goals and an assist, was the best I’ve seen him play and one of the most dominant performances I’ve seen in the NHL. He was physical and played with confidence. Then he got hurt and traded, and after that he played some of the worst hockey I’ve seen.

I have no doubt he’ll rebound and be a force again.
 

Long Live Lyle

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I'm fine with writing last year off for Laine. Covid, shortened season, nagging injuries, mid-season trade, locker room wasn't in sync (and I'm not just saying that since we were bad, because I don't think we'll be good this year either, but I think our locker room will be more positive overall this season), Torts and him weren't on the same page, etc.

I'm not fine with writing off this season for him. He needs to produce or he needs to be shown the door next summer. I hope/think he will produce.
 

Byrral

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I didn't watch much of Patrik when he was in Winnipeg outside of CBJ games and he never did much in those games. But all the hype was there around him the Dubois draft year. I kept waiting for Laine to do something in those CBJ games similar to what I was waiting for last season after he arrived. It was much of the same here only with less talented teammates. To me in limited viewing Laine is not a very good player. And it's frustrating because he's big and talented and you can see he's oozing with potential. I want to believe that he can still get there. I just don't know enough about him and haven't seen enough from him to make a determination if/that he cares enough to be great.
 
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Halberdier

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I'm not a stats guy but doesn't the 18-19 season count as a net negative based on +/- ? Though to be fair I thought it was the "advanced" stats that really reamed him more across the board.

You like cherry picking, huh? Yeah, his 20-21 and 18-19 seasons (back injury on 18-19) generally count as bad seasons, but his 19-20, 17-18 and 16-17 count as good seasons. And btw., he was the most net positive Jets skater on those seasons combined (5-on-5 goal differential)

Don't use regular +/-, but check 5-on-5 +/- instead. Regular one does include minuses from PP, pluses from PK and everything from with empty net & against empty net, which unfortunately renders it pretty much useless stat.
 
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NotCommitted

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I thought the main criticism isn't that he was "bad" last year, but rather that even when he scores a lot of goals (based on previous seasons) he's STILL a net negative on the team...

Simply not true. See Jets 16-17, 17-18 & 19-20 seasons and who have best 5v5 goal differentials. This is the most tiring hfboards meme about Laine.
 
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Monk

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Meh. I'm not really trying to get into a Laine debate with Finns having watched that play out many times before. He was only 18, he had a back injury, he was on a new team during covid, whatever.

I'm rooting for him and hope he crushes it this year.
 
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JacketsDavid

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The thing about Laine is he is a great specialist.
His prior team used him as a specialist (3rd pairing forward line and on PP). Patrick sees himself as a 1st line forward. He's also paid like a top line forward.
Columbus needs him to be more than a specialist - which means he has to play more of a 2 way game. That's the $7.5M question is will he do that?
 

tunnelvision

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Sure, we want him to be more than a specialist as an offensive contributor but less of a specialist in terms of giveaways.
 

BullLund

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Having a functional power-play is the key to get Laine going, in my opinion, I'm just not sure if Columbus has had one in recent history.
 
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