Patrik Laine II: The Roof Still is Still On (for now)

[Halberdier]

Thanks for these. While I don't agree with Torts decisions late game, I agree on his reasoning.

I think he made a mistake there, but the reasoning behind that was solid.

To me it seems that CBJ under Torts right now is way too passive when they have a lead. That in turn gives all the initiative to the opposite team, who doesn't really need to defend anymore, but they can instead fully concentrate on chasing, like Florida did now and other teams have been doing before this season.

 

[oldunclehue]

Even if Torts doesn't get a new contract, you think Laine won't test free-agency? He'd be stupid not too. Columbus doesn't have a legitimate centreman right now, and lacks offensive talent in its top 6. Yes Laine can score, but he rarely "pushes" the play, he's more of a complimentary scorer who can score if he gets a great set up. His agent would be stupid to make him take a deal in Columbus. He should want to go to a team with a few great set up guys/centremen so he can score 50 plus goals and sign long term for McDavid type money.

 

[stevo61]

Even if Torts doesn't get a new contract, you think Laine won't test free-agency? He'd be stupid not too. Columbus doesn't have a legitimate centreman right now, and lacks offensive talent in its top 6. Yes Laine can score, but he rarely "pushes" the play, he's more of a complimentary scorer who can score if he gets a great set up. His agent would be stupid to make him take a deal in Columbus. He should want to go to a team with a few great set up guys/centremen so he can score 50 plus goals and sign long term for McDavid type money.

Hes an RFA. Could test in the sense of talking to other teams like Dubois but all he could sign is offer sheets.
Also he couldnt even dream of McDavid money. He shoots with the best of them but thats mostly all he does

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Even if Torts doesn't get a new contract, you think Laine won't test free-agency? He'd be stupid not too. Columbus doesn't have a legitimate centreman right now, and lacks offensive talent in its top 6. Yes Laine can score, but he rarely "pushes" the play, he's more of a complimentary scorer who can score if he gets a great set up. His agent would be stupid to make him take a deal in Columbus. He should want to go to a team with a few great set up guys/centremen so he can score 50 plus goals and sign long term for McDavid type money.

He's a RFA. He's testing nothing but hypotheticals. PLD, who we know wanted out, didn't even sign an offer sheet and was practically begging for one. You know what happens if Laine signs an offer sheet? He gets matched, and stays long term. Nobody signs offer sheets.

Oh and for the 500000000th time, this tweet was literally yesterday:



He seems to like it here. He likes the team, the city, and his teammates. Perhaps he embraces the challenge of being "the guy" and wants to be a reason why we win rather than being spoonfed goals? Perhaps he wants to be a difference maker on his own and is trying to find his way? This is literally the opportunity he wanted, and why he wanted out of Winnipeg. Just because YOU don't like him being here because you want him to score a bazzillion tap in goals doesn't mean he doesn't like/embrace the challenge of turning us around.

I'm sure every great goal scorer would love to hitch on the wagons of McDavid, Matthews, Crosby, or whoever and score 50000 goals but that's not reality. Sorry, he's not a UFA. He wanted to be the man and he's got that opportunity here. He would be stupid and look really bad if he wanted to leave the opportunity he literally wanted.

This is getting insufferable. And not just from the Laine/Finnish group (the constant doom and gloom of reading his body language from the "CBJ group" or whatever is just as annoying). Can't say we weren't warned. Sorry, but this is a CBJ forum, not a Laine forum. We're all on the same team here, rooting for his success but that doesn't mean everything in the world has to revolve around him holy shit.

 

[oldunclehue]

He's a RFA. He's testing nothing but hypotheticals. PLD, who we know wanted out, didn't even sign an offer sheet and was practically begging for one. You know what happens if Laine signs an offer sheet? He gets matched, and stays long term. Nobody signs offer sheets.

Oh and for the 500000000th time, this tweet was literally yesterday:



He seems to like it here. He likes the team, the city, and his teammates. Perhaps he embraces the challenge of being "the guy" and wants to be a reason why we win rather than being spoonfed goals? Perhaps he wants to be a difference maker on his own and is trying to find his way? This is literally the opportunity he wanted, and why he wanted out of Winnipeg. Just because YOU don't like him being here because you want him to score a bazzillion tap in goals doesn't mean he doesn't like/embrace the challenge of turning us around.

I'm sure every great goal scorer would love to hitch on the wagons of McDavid, Matthews, Crosby, or whoever and score 50000 goals but that's not reality. Sorry, he's not a UFA. He wanted to be the man and he's got that opportunity here. He would be stupid and look really bad if he wanted to leave the opportunity he literally wanted.

This is getting insufferable. And not just from the Laine/Finnish group (the constant doom and gloom of reading his body language from the "CBJ group" or whatever is just as annoying). Can't say we weren't warned. Sorry, but this is a CBJ forum, not a Laine forum. We're all on the same team here, rooting for his success but that doesn't mean everything in the world has to revolve around him holy shit.

He said the same things in Winnipeg, loved it here, loved the city etc etc. Don't get me wrong I hope he signs long term there and has a successful career. I am just more of a realist....and in Winnipeg he never truly embraced the team first mentality, and I read into it that in most things in life hes worried about himself over anything else. I mean he was playing Fortnite for 16 hours a day even on game days. That doesn't lead one to believe he is overly worried about his performance in hockey.

As a realist, I would believe with his past and personality along with how hes behaved in regards to his approach to the sport, he wants to be paid top dollar, but not be accountable other than in what he wants to do with the game ie. score goals. Winnipeg has a leadership group that is heavily invested in doing things right on and off the ice (Scheifele and Wheeler) and Laine did not want that accountability. I see him wanting top dollar and wanting the easiest route to get that. That means surrounding himself with better players and performing by scoring goals and getting off the ice.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I will look at his history to predict the future. I see a trade push by his agent or him sitting out like Roslovic did until he is traded where he can have success in his game. Columbus just likely isn't it.

Also most players at his level, once traded often sign a large contract and buy a house to settle in. Is there a reason why he is living alone in a temporary house and no indication of a contract forthcoming?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Elliotte Friedman:

Laine still finding his footing with Tortorella's Blue Jackets - Sportsnet.ca

Blue Jackets' Tortorella says he didn't bench Laine in loss to Panthers - Sportsnet.ca

 

[CBJWerenski8]

He said the same things in Winnipeg, loved it here, loved the city etc etc. Don't get me wrong I hope he signs long term there and has a successful career. I am just more of a realist....and in Winnipeg he never truly embraced the team first mentality, and I read into it that in most things in life hes worried about himself over anything else. I mean he was playing Fortnite for 16 hours a day even on game days. That doesn't lead one to believe he is overly worried about his performance in hockey.

All of those things can still be true about Winnipeg. He didn't request out of there because of the city, anything but that. He's quoted as saying he doesn't care where he plays as long as he's happy, can win, and can play Playstation (or something like this. IDK the exact quote).

If he's not embracing of a "team first" mentality then why did he sit down and (mostly) shut up about his role there until recently? I can't tell if you like Laine or not with the back half of your post. I'm not saying he's a true blood team first guy but I don't think he's a selfish kid either.

The Fortnite thing is all rumors. Maybe its true, some of its true, or somewhere in between but that game is dead now anyway. If it is true, yeah he was a dumb kid. Yeah, its a dumb mistake but he can do WAAYYY worse things.

As a realist, I would believe with his past and personality along with how hes behaved in regards to his approach to the sport, he wants to be paid top dollar, but not be accountable other than in what he wants to do with the game ie. score goals. Winnipeg has a leadership group that is heavily invested in doing things right on and off the ice (Scheifele and Wheeler) and Laine did not want that accountability. I see him wanting top dollar and wanting the easiest route to get that. That means surrounding himself with better players and performing by scoring goals and getting off the ice.

You claim to be a realist but still are ignoring the facts in front of you.

Okay, he wants to be paid top dollar but doesn't want to be held accountable? He literally took his first benching by Torts in the best way anyone could. He said he deserved it, and can learn from it seeing as that nobody is above the team. He took ownership, and moved on. If he wanted the "easiest route" to getting paid, he wouldn't have requested out of Winnipeg. He could have sat on their 2nd line and 1st PP unit and snapped home 30+ goals with very good centers and chilled for the rest of his career making 8+ million. But he didn't want that. He wanted more. He wanted to be the guy. It's literally why he wanted out.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I will look at his history to predict the future. I see a trade push by his agent or him sitting out like Roslovic did until he is traded where he can have success in his game. Columbus just likely isn't it.

I hope you know how damaging that would make him look as a player. Yeah, he'd have a major trade market still. But TWO trade requests before the age of 25 with two different franchises is a mighty big black eye to put on ones career.

Being a realist, I don't think thats a very wise career move. Both short and long term.

Also most players at his level, once traded often sign a large contract and buy a house to settle in. Is there a reason why he is living alone in a temporary house and no indication of a contract forthcoming?

1. Because both the team and the player agreed that they should wait until the offseason before starting negotiations.
2. He's living alone because he chooses to? I'm sure if he had a girlfriend/wife/family with him they'd be there. But he doesn't.
3. The temporary housing is because he needed immediate housing when he got traded here. He doesn't know the city because he can't go out and experience it due to the pandemic. He can't live with teammates because most of them either have families or already rooming with others. Plus unless he plans to live here year around (doubtful) all housing he would have is "temporary."

 

[Fables]

As someone who has followed Laine through his professional career I wanted to summarize these discussed topics.

About Laine and Columbus: If Laine says he likes the city I believe him. He seemed to like Winnipeg as well so I don't think for a second that Laine is one of those players who wants to live in LA or NY, etc. I think he would be happy to sign with Blue Jackets if it professionally makes sense to him.

About Tortorella: I don't think that being benched a couple times will have any long term implications. However if Laine will start feeling that Tortorella is constantly not giving him the opportunities he feels he deserves then it will be a huge issue. I think this was the case with Maurice in Winnipeg.

People often say Laine is entitled or lazy but I don't think that's true at all. Laine is very competitive and he really wants to win. He also wants to be the guy who is trusted when the game is on the line. That's why I think that if Columbus wants to sign Laine long term they need be able to convince him that they will be a contender in the near future. Without that I don't think Laine will sign even if they will offer him crazy money.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I am just more of a realist....

As a realist,

You are not. You are a pessimist.

Good to know this false equivalence exists beyond the borders of HF CBJ regulars.

 

[EspenK]

Blue Jackets' Tortorella says he didn't bench Laine in loss to Panthers

"I just didn't play him for the last 7 minutes or so"

Edit: Summary of all his bs, He didn't really say that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Blue Jackets' Tortorella says he didn't bench Laine in loss to Panthers

"I just didn't play him for the last 7 minutes or so"

Edit: Summary of all his bs, He didn't really say that.

We have bitched about Torts shortening the bench for years. Sitting guys for the last too-many minutes and wearing guys out and you know damn well that meant that players were not seeing the ice under the same conditions that Laine didn’t. But all of a sudden now it’s benching one guy because it’s Patrik Laine? Geez people.

 

[NotCommitted]

There was a pretty good article on YLE (it's the Finnish national broadcaster) about Laine with some comments from him. Here's the link, it's in Finnish of course Patrik Laine tuskailee uransa syvimmässä alhossa – kommentoi Yle Urheilulle penkityskohuaan: "Jos en tee hommia, sitten istutaan penkillä"

I think Laine's comments would be of interest for non-Finnish speakers as well so here are quick translations by me - the article doesn't show any "questions" per se, it's written as an article with quotes from Laine inserted in places the journalist deemed appropriate, so I have tried to very shortly summarize what was written about before the Laine comments:

Laine not scoring / being utilized
-Of course everyone knows my strengths, and there haven't been much of quality chances. On the other hand it's been a team problem, it's not about only one player. At the same time, I could've created more myself.

combination of lesser quality of team mates, Laine's responsibility and his body language
-I won't start with the excuses. I haven't played at my best level yet. The team has been struggling and I have been struggling, it's not always easy.

Laine takes full responsibility on the 3rd period benching
-Like the coach said, he plays the bench according to who plays well (at the time) and who doesn't. If we are up by a goal and a player isn't solid with the puck , then we play guys, who are. It's not that complicated. Let's learn from these and go forward.

It's more about excitement, passion and even the right kind of anger, typical to Laine
-You gotta work hard. It doesn't matter what kind of contract anyone has, if they aren't playing well. If I don't work (hard), then I sit on the bench. And that's how it should be in my opinion, it's a good thing.

Words need to translate into actions and he needs to forget about everything he can't affect
-Everyone has these (rough) pathches. It's not been all bad though, even if I haven't played at my best yet. I have also liked my own game, there has been some good things even in times I haven't gotten any points. The points are not everything either. It will start to go better

(note: this last comment was a bit difficult to translate accurately, but he's saying that while he hasn't been at his best and has gone through some struggles, there's also been positive things in his game, there was a tone of certain dry observative humor kind of thing and certain Finnish ways of phrasing things and using passive)

 

[CBJWerenski8]

No issues with any of those comments and I once again think this proves that people are just making it up about him being unhappy here or with Torts. Literally everything he says goes against it. He doesn't seem to have issues with hard coaching, and takes responsibility for his game and how he's playing while recognizing he can be better.

 

[VT]

No issues with any of those comments and I once again think this proves that people are just making it up about him being unhappy here or with Torts. Literally everything he says goes against it. He doesn't seem to have issues with hard coaching, and takes responsibility for his game and how he's playing while recognizing he can be better.

You`re wrong, Laine prays every day so he can leave. His prayers in all churches using ZOOM are becoming more and more active. And if you don`t agree with this, you deny the holy faith by worshiping the incarnation of Lucifer - Torts.

P.S. I love a part where a Finnish journalist writes Atkinson has more time. But he forgot to write Cam plays in PKG too.

 

[Whyme]

No issues with any of those comments and I once again think this proves that people are just making it up about him being unhappy here or with Torts. Literally everything he says goes against it. He doesn't seem to have issues with hard coaching, and takes responsibility for his game and how he's playing while recognizing he can be better.

I'm a Finn, not a Laine fan but following his career with interest, and I have never believed he has a problem with Torts. Laine reacts to things with passion, sometimes too much, but I believe he's smart enough to understand Torts position.

One thing about Laine, which some of his fans probably deny. He was handled with a huuuuge leash in the national team and at the start of his NHL career. Whenever somebody tried to talk about his bad habbits, which actually cost a lot of goals, he was attacked by enthusiastic Laine fans. There were times when he was treated a bit more toughly, but most of the time I felt the leash was very long, which was partly due to his skills in the offensive side and also due to the fact that at that time the Jets desperately needed a young star. A great amount of goals, even if it meant some extra goals to the own end, was important in the marketing side.

What I'm saying is Laine was worse in some areas than is generally known. This also means that he has actually developed in those areas and it also means that when he's producing and confident he can hide those more difficult areas much better than what we've seen so far.

Laine may be struggling a bit with the thought that he actually had some of the best NHL players with him in the PP. There's not many teams that can offer the same and unfortunately neither is the CBJ. But those thoughts may be behind now and at the same time he realizes in Columbus they are trying to build whatever is needed around him. Torts can actually be the best thing that happened to Laine, if he can push Laine to work extra hard on some areas I could see him turning to a much more complete player. I believe some pretty minor, but important changes could make a huge difference. If Torts is willing to help with those areas (as I'm sure he is) and Patrick listens and does his best it can start to produce great results sooner than many expect.

E: Patrik, not Patrick as I wrote The c is following from some of the earliers thread names I guess (Hat trick or something)...

 

[VT]

I'm a Finn, not a Laine fan but following his career with interest, and I have never believed he has a problem with Torts. Laine reacts to things with passion, sometimes too much, but I believe he's smart enough to understand Torts position.

One thing about Laine, which some of his fans probably deny. He was handled with a huuuuge leash in the national team and at the start of his NHL career. Whenever somebody tried to talk about his bad habbits, which actually cost a lot of goals, he was attacked by enthusiastic Laine fans. There were times when he was treated a bit more toughly, but most of the time I felt the leash was very long, which was partly due to his skills in the offensive side and also due to the fact that at that time the Jets desperately needed a young star. A great amount of goals, even if it meant some extra goals to the own end, was important in the marketing side.

What I'm saying is Laine was worse in some areas than is generally known. This also means that he has actually developed in those areas and it also means that when he's producing and confident he can hide those more difficult areas much better than what we've seen so far.

Laine may be struggling a bit with the thought that he actually had some of the best NHL players with him in the PP. There's not many teams that can offer the same and unfortunately neither is the CBJ. But those thoughts may be behind now and at the same time he realizes in Columbus they are trying to build whatever is needed around him. Torts can actually be the best thing that happened to Laine, if he can push Laine to work extra hard on some areas I could see him turning to a much more complete player. I believe some pretty minor, but important changes could make a huge difference. If Torts is willing to help with those areas (as I'm sure he is) and Patrick listens and does his best it can start to produce great results sooner than many expect.

I always say about it. Laine was in the comfort zone all the time, everyone took advantage of his strengths, virtually none of his full potential. Torts is trying to change that. It's a process that will take some of that time, and at the same time will affect his stats, as he will have to play more aggressive hockey, be constantly on the move, win fights and neutral pucks, be useful in everz minute. That is quite, to put it mildly, a big change. But Torts would never have done that if he hadn't known that he has the power to combine all of this and be a complex power-forward, not just one way PP sniper.

P-S. It`s a pity I can put you only one like.

 

[Whyme]

I always say about it. Laine was in the comfort zone all the time, everyone took advantage of his strengths, virtually none of his full potential. Torts is trying to change that. It's a process that will take some of that time, and at the same time will affect his stats, as he will have to play more aggressive hockey, be constantly on the move, win fights and neutral pucks, be useful in everz minute. That is quite, to put it mildly, a big change. But Torts would never have done that if he hadn't known that he has the power to combine all of this and be a complex power-forward, not just one way PP sniper.

P-S. It`s a pity I can put you only one like.

Thank you for the nice comment Yeah it's at the same time this obviously hasn't been demanded earlier, but at the same time it gives me hope some big things could be coming. I have a feeling at the beginning of his career Laine was a bit childish and mainly cared about his production numbers, but has now matured and realizes what a difference developing in those areas could bring. One of the big things I really hope is Laine turns to a player who doesn't have to produce to feel his very useful to his team. That's a bit of a mental change and from those previous comments in the Finnish article I sense he's realized this himself. That's what I've hoped for a long while actually so I'm excited if that's changed.

 

[6zag]

Torts can actually be the best thing that happened to Laine, if he can push Laine to work extra hard on some areas I could see him turning to a much more complete player. I believe some pretty minor, but important changes could make a huge difference. If Torts is willing to help with those areas (as I'm sure he is) and Patrick listens and does his best it can start to produce great results sooner than many expect.

Is it weird that I agree with this but at the same time want Torts gone? Lmao.

 

[Whyme]

Is it weird that I agree with this but at the same time want Torts gone? Lmao.

You are my 2nd favourite team, but I follow you from such a distance I feel I can watch things pretty neutrally. I sometimes feel many of your fans don't quite realize how good years you've had. It wasn't an easy starting point and I think it was inevitable there'd be harder times and maybe time for a bit of a rebuild.

Bad years happen to everyone. Maybe it's time to change the coach as the players might need a new face around, but other than that I believe Torts could still be a good option in the future. It's just that in this case it would be a risk so if Jarmo can find a good option he should go for it.

What I wanted to say is you guys need to be more proud of what you've achieved during the last years. Jarmo is a Finn like me, but I don't feel I have any mental ties to support him for the sake of supporting. I don't think he's perfect, but I do believe in his ability to change the course of this ship again. It doesn't necessarily require that much really. A great coach, maybe a new (almost) PPG player in Roslovic, and a possibly one excellent chain of trades (say Lehtonen plays extremely well and thus one of the good defenders -> good center -> also more out of Laine) could make a huge difference, especially with terrific goaltending.

 

[DaJackal]

Laine won't leave. He hasn't played as well as he could and it has caused a dent in his relationship with Torts, but he knows it. He'll stay and sort out all the problems first, as a proper Finn always does.

 

[VT]

Laine won't leave. He hasn't played as well as he could and it has caused a dent in his relationship with Torts, but he knows it. He'll stay and sort out all the problems first, as a proper Finn always does.

What`s happen Laine. I don't know how in Winnipeg, but when he came here, he didn't play aggressively enough, one didn't move much, use his body on the board, forchecking and backchecing could be, diplomatically speaking, better. The result - not only won few neutral pucks, but not once lost them. Now he is a different player. He plays much more aggressively, has improved his defenses, moves his legs, thanks to which he has improved his checkng, wins more neutral pucks, creates more chances not only for himself but also for his partners. A wonderful example was how he played backchecking in OT.
Another good news is that he didn't have problems with Foligno as a center. At least in the last match. IMHO, it is precisely because of the improvement of these components and not, as we thought, that Nick's inability to connect Patrik and Bjork. I have to admit, I most likely blamed Nick.
Of course, he has to work a lot on himself to be perfect, he still has something to improve. But this is good news, and if it continues, statistics will improve radically.

 

[Halberdier]

What`s happen Laine. I don't know how in Winnipeg, but when he came here, he didn't play aggressively enough, one didn't move much, use his body on the board, forchecking and backchecing could be, diplomatically speaking, better. The result - not only won few neutral pucks, but not once lost them. Now he is a different player. He plays much more aggressively, has improved his defenses, moves his legs, thanks to which he has improved his checkng, wins more neutral pucks, creates more chances not only for himself but also for his partners. A wonderful example was how he played backchecking in OT.
Another good news is that he didn't have problems with Foligno as a center. At least in the last match. IMHO, it is precisely because of the improvement of these components and not, as we thought, that Nick's inability to connect Patrik and Bjork. I have to admit, I most likely blamed Nick.
Of course, he has to work a lot on himself to be perfect, he still has something to improve. But this is good news, and if it continues, statistics will improve radically.

Adjusting to the game after an injury and also adjusting to the CBJ system takes some time.

 

[VT]

Adjusting to the game after an injury and also adjusting to the CBJ system takes some time.

Not everything is about the system. This can be said about positional play, whether in backchecking or forchecking. But aggressive play, including at the board, forchecking, play in the front of the net, permanent movement ... that's a change of style.
Btw, I didn`t think games when he played with injury.

 

[Garbox]

There might be a difference in how Torts encourages Patrik to go for the puck and what Maurice was saying. In the past seasons Patrik has seemed to kind of avoid the situations where he's not at his best (like boardplays etc.) and I could think that's because Maurice is so much of a defence first guy. I think Torts is trying to encourage Patrik to go for it and just give it everything he's got (and learn while doing so), and if he fails, it's ok as long as it's not because he's half-a*sing it.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

There might be a difference in how Torts encourages Patrik to go for the puck and what Maurice was saying. In the past seasons Patrik has seemed to kind of avoid the situations where he's not at his best (like boardplays etc.) and I could think that's because Maurice is so much of a defence first guy. I think Torts is trying to encourage Patrik to go for it and just give it everything he's got (and learn while doing so), and if he fails, it's ok as long as it's not because he's half-a*sing it.

Also one difference is that now he plays quite low so is also last forward, not going so much to corners. And is first to go back to own zone.