Confirmed with Link: Patrick Roy leaves Avalanche

[tigervixxxen]

So the "best of luck in the playoffs" thing occurred twice, once vs Minnesota and once vs Anaheim?

What's this? I heard nothing about it.

 

[dahrougem2]

They mentioned it in the podcast they did shortly after Roy quit. I don't have the link right now but it should be on Russo's twitter if you want to listen.



Apparently. With Boudreau it was after the season was over though.

The entire team pretty much accepted defeat with ~10 games left in the season.

 

[dahrougem2]

What's this? I heard nothing about it.

After the loss to the Ducks Boudreau stated that Roy came over to him and wished him the best of luck in the playoffs. Then Boudreau stated "that's the first thing he's said to me since the bench incident"

 

[Foppa2118]

Literally almost everyone following that team knew that the Minny game was their make or break moment for the playoffs. Only reason it looked otherwise was because Minny knew it too, and dropped their last five games.

Telling Torchetti and Boudreau good luck in the playoffs is being gracious in defeat to your rivals, not quitting on your team.

 

[madman]

I'm soooo ready to move on.

 

[McMetal]

Literally almost everyone following that team knew that the Minny game was their make or break moment for the playoffs. Only reason it looked otherwise was because Minny knew it too, and dropped their last five games.

Telling Torchetti and Boudreau good luck in the playoffs is being gracious in defeat to your rivals, not quitting on your team.

I disagree. Unless you're mathematically eliminated, you should never concede defeat, especially to a hated division rival. That is absolutely quitting on the team, and he quit on the team again this month instead of trying to make the best of a rough situation.

 

[MonsterMack]

Dat winners mentality

 

[chet1926]

I can't believe we are even talking about something so meaningless this far past the incident.

It's very clear that both parties were in the wrong.

Duchene shouldn't have been so hyped for a goal in a blowout loss as the season was going down the crapper. On the other hand Roy shouldn't have singled out the one guy who actually made a positive difference towards the game, when he didn't bother to call out Landeskog for a lazy penalty that lead to the first goal of the game or how he didn't call out Barrie for an egregious turnover which led directly to I believe the 3rd or 4th goal against that game.

That's what I had a problem with, there were multiple situations that occurred during the same game that were just as egregious or worse as they actually effected the outcome but Roy chose to focus on a over-celebration, instead of the crappy lazy plays made by the other "core" players that game. He could have easily gone after multiple core players, but he attacked one.

Roy was terrible at compartmentalizing what was important and what wasn't. Duchene's over-reaction on a goal should have been dealt with internally, something to the extent of, if I see you celebrate a personal milestone when the team goals aren't being met again, I'm going to bench you, the team always needs to come first. That kind of lecture would have been sufficient. Stuff like bad turnovers/lazy plays/losing your assignment that is the important stuff which can be addressed to the media if you feel the need to make it public knowledge. Holding the players accountable for their poor play that leads to losses is important not making sure players celebrate properly.

 

[dahrougem2]

Literally almost everyone following that team knew that the Minny game was their make or break moment for the playoffs. Only reason it looked otherwise was because Minny knew it too, and dropped their last five games.

Telling Torchetti and Boudreau good luck in the playoffs is being gracious in defeat to your rivals, not quitting on your team.

There were 7 games remaining.

It's quitting on your team, because then you've simply admitted defeat and don't believe you have a chance to win any of the remaining 7 games.

 

[henchman21]

I'm in the camp that the whole team, including Roy quit the final games. That was pathetic hockey to end the season.

 

[Tweaky]

Public shaming was out of line by Roy. Boedker grabbing the puck for Duchene is fine; regardless of emotion, it is a milestone, and a teammate retrieving it is being a good teammate. Duchene's celebration was a bit over the top, but not the evil thing that some are making it out to be.

The line of thinking started by MacKenzie may have some truth to it, but it could go both ways. A club full of losers can celebrate an individual accomplishment in the midst of a season crushing loss. A club full of winners knows that one goal is meaningless unless they bear down and score 3 more. Or the way that MacKenzie stated it, that winners celebrate and use it as motivation, losers concede that it means nothing because the situation is hopeless.

I have no doubt that Roy had given up at that point. Which was stupid of him, as Duchene was still healthy, and with Minny tanking at the end, we would have had a shot to pass them. Until Duchene got hurt...then we were screwed.

As far as players being robots...I do not think anyone is implying they should be. Robots would never show emotion. Many of us expect (and like) players to show appropriate emotion. That is sadness at losing, and joy at winning. Personal accomplishments beget personal celebrations unless they coincide with team accomplishments. Teammates acknowledging a players personal accomplishment is good teamwork, as is celebrating when appropriate (in the locker room if a loss, or losing at the time of the goal). A player celebrating a personal achievement that is at odds with the team's situation is not putting the team first. If the team wins a clinching game, or even just a game against a rival, I expect them to celebrate. If they blow out a hated opponent, I want to see them having fun with every goal. And for truly momentous accomplishments (like, say, 500 goals or 1000 points), then maybe it warrants something regardless of situation. But the funny thing is, the guys that hit those marks rarely are the ones that get dinged for celebrating too much (quite sure Ovi will though).


Oh for those that are saying it was still a possibility that the Avs could have come back after that goal. At that point, it was a 3 goal difference. According to my research, a 3 goal deficit translates to a loss roughly 97.5% of the time...if near the end of the second period. As time runs, the percentage gets larger. Extrapolating it to 4 minutes remaining, the chance of the Avs work out to about 0.079% chance of tying the game. Or about 1 in 1271 games. And that is 1 out of 1271 games that are at 3 goal difference with 4 minutes left...not 1 in 1271 total games

But like I said, Roy was out of line too. That should have been a private talk.

 

[dahrougem2]

I'm in the camp that the whole team, including Roy quit the final games. That was pathetic hockey to end the season.

True. The team deserves equal amounts of blame for that embarrassment

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think you're placing way too much emphasis on a single event and extrapolating it out to push the narrative that this team doesn't have the right character to be winners.

I guess I didn't make it clear. A big part of it is that this one event is a great example of many events throughout the year. You can count Lando's stupid head shot. Look at all the times we blew a lead from a mental error. Look at how many games everyone talked about 2 good periods and 1 WTF? How many times did 'we look like the better team, but a couple mental mistakes cost us the game'?

Not once did I say anything about character. A lack of focus isn't a character issue. Thinking of your accomplishment instead of just thinking about winning isn't a character issue. Or atleast I didn't make it out to be. Maybe you think so. I don't know. But don't act like I think the same. It's a success issue. Not character.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm in the camp that the whole team, including Roy quit the final games. That was pathetic hockey to end the season.

yeah that was pretty clear. didn't even watch some of them.

leafs did the same for the whole second half of 14-15 (players, not the coaches).

 

[Avalanche]

Did Russo report what Roy said after the game?

Why would he mention it well after the season ended?

He likes to instigate so I wouldn't be surprised if he made it up on his podcast just to stick it to us a little bit more.

 

[ABasin]

Pretty amazing reading the passion around this incident. Personally, I wouldn't have given either Duchene's or Roy's actions a second thought if others didn't bring it up as an issue. Both are pretty secondary and unimportant, IMO.

To me, the much bigger issue is that the team simply shriveled up and died with ~10 games to go in the season - they mailed it in. And that is on both the players and the coaching staff. I suspect a lot of the passion around Roy/Duchene is likely a diversion from looking deeply into that larger issue.

 

[Foppa2118]

Dat winners mentality

You don't get to question the winners mentality of the guy with 38 more playoff wins than any other goalie, and the only player with three Conn Smyth trophies in NHL history.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Did Russo report what Roy said after the game?

Why would he mention it well after the season ended?

He likes to instigate so I wouldn't be surprised if he made it up on his podcast just to stick it to us a little bit more.

russo is very annoying homer but he's an excellent journalist. it's not like him to made things up.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Literally almost everyone following that team knew that the Minny game was their make or break moment for the playoffs. Only reason it looked otherwise was because Minny knew it too, and dropped their last five games.

Telling Torchetti and Boudreau good luck in the playoffs is being gracious in defeat to your rivals, not quitting on your team.

Big difference between the two. Anaheim was courteous, saying that to Minnesita with games left isn't that. And they did quit, all of them, even Roy. it was obvious when they called up Zadorov too.

 

[Tweaky]

I think the passion around this issue is indicative of the team quitting with 10 games left. It serves as evidence to some that a leader on the ice had given up on the season. It also seems to speak to the leadership behind the bench throwing in the towel as well.

 

[Foppa2118]

Big difference between the two. Anaheim was courteous, saying that to Minnesita with games left isn't that. And they did quit, all of them, even Roy. it was obvious when they called up Zadorov too.

There's a difference between quitting, and not wearing a blindfold.

I also put as much credibility in Russo's ability to quote someone accurately with context and nuance, as I do Chambers and Dater.

 

[dahrougem2]

You don't get to question the winners mentality of the guy with 38 more playoff wins than any other goalie, and the only player with three Conn Smyth trophies in NHL history.

Yes, you do, when that person quits on the season with 7 games left to play still in a playoff race.

Then again, we also get to do that for the entire team. Just an albatross of hockey we witnessed to end the year

 

[MonsterMack]

You don't get to question the winners mentality of the guy with 38 more playoff wins than any other goalie, and the only player with three Conn Smyth trophies in NHL history.

It was a joke bud

 

[ArWKo]

I guess I didn't make it clear. A big part of it is that this one event is a great example of many events throughout the year. You can count Lando's stupid head shot. Look at all the times we blew a lead from a mental error. Look at how many games everyone talked about 2 good periods and 1 WTF? How many times did 'we look like the better team, but a couple mental mistakes cost us the game'?

Not once did I say anything about character. A lack of focus isn't a character issue. Thinking of your accomplishment instead of just thinking about winning isn't a character issue. Or atleast I didn't make it out to be. Maybe you think so. I don't know. But don't act like I think the same. It's a success issue. Not character.

I guess I'm not sure what exactly you mean by a "success issue," to me success is a result not an attribute. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like primarily then you think of the problems this team has had as an issue with their focus?

I certainly can't say they're focused at all times, and things like the Landeskog head shot and the Dutchy celebration were certainly lapses of judgement but I don't necessarily agree that they're indicative of a more general problem with focus that they team has, I simply see them as mistakes that players will always make, and that younger ones are certainly more prone to making and this is certainly a pretty young team on the whole.

Ultimately, my opinion of where the team's problems lay primarily rested in the coaching, which I know isn't the way everyone sees it, but that is what it is as far as my thoughts on it. I'm not saying the focus is perfect by any means, but I don't see it as the primary cause of their problems. As far as those games where one period just seems like a brain fart, I think a variety of things can cause that, the Avs aren't the only team to have games like that and yeah maybe they lost focus but they aren't the first and won't be the last.

I made it an issue of character because to me whenever someone talks about "me before the team" type of stuff it's always wrapped in "character" and so I instinctively put the idea of focus on self instead of on team into that category, but if you see it differently that's fair and I don't mean to imply that you're ripping on the players' character, but still fundamentally I don't see the focus problem being the team's biggest problem.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's a success issue in the sense that it hurts in winning games, especially important games when the other team is in tune. Just like a lack of talent would be a success issue, but not character. Of course success is a result. Results are what matter. I don't really get the attribute point.

Yes, their lack of focus and just overall mindset is a big part of the problem. That doesn't mean they are bad teammates or whatever though.

Just because they are mistakes players will always make doesn't make it better. Its how often these mistakes occurred. And of course younger players are more likely to have these problems. That a good argument to make if talking about the future and getting better, but when talking about the past couple years? That doesn't change the fact the mistakes happened. It's also not just about the mistakes but how the team immediately reacts to them.

Of course the Avs are not the only team to have these issues. The Avs are not the only team losing games either. To be a team that can seriously compete we need to fix these issues. Don't underestimate the value of a team's mindset. The talent levels and coaching in high leagues have too much parity. That mental edge makes a big difference.