Patrick Marleau hit to head against Bryan Rust (No DoPS Discipline)

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I'm interested to see if we can all let this thread die

 

[MoeManthaMustache]

Relevant clip. Well done.

Waiting for PinkFloyd's, "But Letang got suspended because he was .02s late!" Landeskog wasn't late...Are we going to go with Landeskog's history vs. Marleau as the next straw to grasp?

What is funny - is in that clip they specifically talk about how Landeskog did not extend or make an upward motion - but simply because Marchand was vulnerable and the head was the contact point - it was an illegal hit.

There is not much I can find in terms of difference here, now I admit Landeskog got suspended because he had a record - but I don't see how you at least don't have a hearing and fine Marleau.

 

[MoeManthaMustache]

I'm interested to see if we can all let this thread die

meh, discussion on a discussion board, really easy to not click on it.

 

[Coastal Kev]

That is exactly the comparison he made.

You're reading comprehension is as poor as your ability to assess this play. Not at all surprising.

As far as your comment regarding Ulf on Neely -- very classy.

He provided you with an analogy, not a comparison.


An analogy is a comparison between things which are basically not alike but which share some kind of striking similarity.

And yes, thank you, I am very classy indeed. In fact, I am writing this post back to your attention while dressed in pin striped suit with yellow kerchief.

 

[RockPile]

This is the same team that had Matt Cooke playing for them and intentionally causing injuries. And the same fanbase who used to defend him.

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that would call this a cheap shot or be calling for a suspension.

Move on folks, whining on a message board isn't going to change things

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that provides his opinion on a topic and then suggests that everyone else just move on. The irony of someone whining about Matt Cooke and then calling out others for pointlessly whining is quite entertaining.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

How is that clean? He hit him in the ****ing head? Other than throwing an elbow, it's about as dirty as you can get in that situation.

By hitting a guy who just had the puck, without raising his arm/elbow (neither of which is what hit Rust in the head btw), not jumping into it, either - in fact he lowered himself into it - and not approaching from any "blind" angle nor obviously "targeting" the head. That's how. Natural consequence of 6'4" running into 5'11", unfortunately for Rust, and why there's no supplemental discipline. No one is going to bother retracting a 2 minute minor, but I'm sure if the referees looked at all the replays we have at this point they'd probably take it back because Marleau did absolutely nothing wrong. Again, as a Crosby fan from Halifax rooting for the Pens.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Does the hit make Crusty a dirty player? Probably not. But it was a cheap shot and I hope Dye boy blows a skate and goes down hard. Karma

I have no idea who or what you're talking about.

 

[stepdad gaary]

By hitting a guy who just had the puck, without raising his arm/elbow (neither of which is what hit Rust in the head btw), not jumping into it, either - in fact he lowered himself into it - and not approaching from any "blind" angle nor obviously "targeting" the head. That's how. Natural consequence of 6'4" running into 5'11", unfortunately for Rust, and why there's no supplemental discipline. No one is going to bother retracting a 2 minute minor, but I'm sure if the referees looked at all the replays we have at this point they'd probably take it back because Marleau did absolutely nothing wrong. Again, as a Crosby fan from Halifax rooting for the Pens.

in my opinion the head was targeted.

 

[Lemieux66]

After watching it a dozen times, it's an inbetweener... But they didn't give him a game so no sense worrying anymore. Time to get out there and win tonight

 

[MoeManthaMustache]

If you watch the video posted on the previous page - reasoning given by the DOPS for suspending Landeskog fits into exactly what happened with the Marleau hit. The only conclusion I have for not fining Marleau is that the NHL has made some soft of change or shift into their thinking on these types of hits... either that or some odd bias is at play. They could have fined Marleau and not affected this series at all.

 

[Romang67]

What is funny - is in that clip they specifically talk about how Landeskog did not extend or make an upward motion - but simply because Marchand was vulnerable and the head was the contact point - it was an illegal hit.

There is not much I can find in terms of difference here, now I admit Landeskog got suspended because he had a record - but I don't see how you at least don't have a hearing and fine Marleau.

Landeskog also hit Marchand with a blindside hit, which Marleau didn't. They talk extensively in the clip about how that places all the onus on the person throwing the hit to avoid head contact.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Some interesting notes from that youtube.

-Marchand should expect contact, but no player should expect head as main point of contact.
-Onus is placed on player delivering hit to make sure head is not main point of contact
-Landeskog does not flare elbow nor does he extend, does not launch, nor is it late.. initial contact is shoulder, but head is still main point of contact.

To me - to follow this logic - Marleau should at least have been fined.

The only way you follow that logic to this conclusion is to ignore the differences that are spelled out in both cases. In Landeskog's case, the main point of contact is the head. That is not the case with Marleau. In Landeskog's case, it actually was a shoulder to the head. That was not the case with Marleau. In Landeskog's case, it was mentioned how his positioning didn't materially change. In Marleau's case, they specifically mentioned Rust being low and off-balanced which implies a change in position. Now I don't know if I necessarily agree with that portion of it but there's more than enough differences to debunk Landeskog as a comparable hit.

The only people grasping at straws to try and get supplemental discipline out of this are certain Penguins' fans but every attempt at making a relevant point is easily shot down. Keep trying.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

every attempt at making a relevant point is easily shot down

subjectivity
1
n
judgment based on individual personal impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts

 

[Lemieux66]

I will say this tho, if let's say Crosby puts that hit on PM or someone on that team, theres no way on this planet that Sharks fans would be sayin "normal hit, no harm"....

No way in hell no matter what anyone wants to say. They would want Crosby popped for a game, hands down. Just sayin

As Kurt Angle would say, oh it's true it's true, it's damn true

 

[Clarkington III]

I will say this tho, if let's say Crosby puts that hit on PM or someone on that team, theres no way on this planet that Sharks fans would be sayin "normal hit, no harm"....

No way in hell no matter what anyone wants to say. They would want Crosby popped for a game, hands down. Just sayin

As Kurt Angle would say, oh it's true it's true, it's damn true

If Crosby put that hit on Chris Tierney, I doubt there would be this much commotion and whining about a suspension and Crosby being a dirty player.

Borderline wasn't even a penalty, let alone a suspension in the Finals. Lots of lols in here.

 

[Lemieux66]

I'm not saying PM is a dirty player tho, for me it's a hit by hit basis. And me personally I'm fine with it all, is what it is.

But nah, if Crosby lays that hit people would want action.. Again nothin you can say will change that fact

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I will say this tho, if let's say Crosby puts that hit on PM or someone on that team, theres no way on this planet that Sharks fans would be sayin "normal hit, no harm"....

No way in hell no matter what anyone wants to say. They would want Crosby popped for a game, hands down. Just sayin

As Kurt Angle would say, oh it's true it's true, it's damn true

I really doubt you'd see Sharks fans saying anything about it unless the opposition or neutral fans or just haters bringing up and slagging their team/player for no good reason. There's been a few hits before the Finals that were at least questionable that didn't get a thread. This didn't even deserve a thread had it not been the Finals. If this was between the Sharks-Pens in the regular season, does anyone honestly think this garners much or any interest like this? Doubtful.

 

[Magicman]

I had a model employee running late one morning. He ran a red light, hit another car and killed the occupants. Now, there was no way the man woke up and said to himself. “This morning I will runs a red light and kill some folks in a carâ€. He made a bad decision in a split second and it cost him plenty.

IMO Marleau, like many others in his position, made a split second decision when he seen a prone Rust to make a hit. That decision was the last second bad decision that now goes un-punished for whatever BS reason the NHL spews. Regardless of Marleau’s clean history, he made primary contact to the head and should have been suspended. Plus we make excuses like Rust had his head down.

My former employee took the stand and tearfully explained how sorry he was and how fast it all happened. His defense attorney spoke about how good of a family man he was, how he volunteered at his church, how he sponsored and worked 1 weekend a year at Ronald McDonald House and how much his scout troop would miss him. The problem was, he was late and was speeding. 55 in a 25 zone, and rather than hit the brakes. He accelerated when he seen the light go from yellow to red. No doubt it’s something many of us have done in the past, but without killing a car full of folks.

Plus we see cars blow red lights all the time. Only in this specific case, a car with a family was also in a hurry and when they seen the green, they accelerated into the intersection and was struck and killed. Had they hesitated for 1 second, my employee would have sped past and that family would have made it to their destination

Would you be as will to forgive my former employee if it was your family or the Judge. What if a judge made his ruling…

“Well he hasn’t killed anybody in the past, they need him at work or a project will be late and it will impact the profitability of the company. Speeding isn’t like setting a house on fire with a family in it, or breaking down their door and shooting them. All he did was run a red light and is really that is only a moving violation anyway. And if that other family hadn’t been in such a hurry and looked before they entered the intersection they would have seen the car and would not have been hit.

Based on the past history, the incident being a moving violation and the other family being in a hurry and not looking all we will do at this time is let the defendant off with a warning at this time. But be rest assured if he runs a red light again and kills another family he will get jail time.†I would not be satisfied, I would be pissed seeing a guy who killed my family be set free because he was good in the past. The past has nothing to do with what you did today.

Maybe not on a parallel with the Marleau hit, but again. The rule is there, it’s plain as day he made head contact, previous folks did get suspended so why not this time.

IMO the NHL too many times worries about the impact to the game and the costs to the owners. Rather than the incident and the protection and safety of the players. If hits to the head were 4 game minimum suspension no questions asked, and multiplied 10 times for each hit after that . The hits to the head would stop overnight. There will be some growing minor pains, but if the NHL truly wanted to stop the head shots, they could.

If strong long suspensions happened owners would be on the hook and teams wins would suffer. With losses comes less fans, less fans = less money. But because NHL doesn’t want owners to pay the price, the craziness continues.

But the main problem is the NHL isn’t about player safety, it’s about ownership safety and wealth. When a player gets a shot just like Rust took and falls to the ice and dies, maybe the NHL will step up to the plate. But until then, don’t count on it. Because there is always another Rust in the minors, junior, college or overseas all too willing to step in. And we as fans all too willing to let the NHL off the hook.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Way to compare a hockey hit to killing people. Yeah, that's really going to get your point across.

You ask why not this time? Read this thread and you'll see plenty of justifiable reasons why not.

And nobody will ever get hit like Rust did and die. Stop with the stupid scare tactics.

 

[Lemieuxs]

I don't understand the argument "So and So is a dirty player so this hit should be more suspendable than that hit" just as I also do not understand the argument "So and So is a clean honest player, so this hit should be ignored because of his good reputation".

This was hit to the head. It is suspension-worthy. DOPS decided to let this one go. There will absolutely be AT LEAST one more questionable hit this series. The Penguins have banked theirs, and the Sharks have used up theirs.

 

[CrypTic]

Maybe not on a parallel with the Marleau hit, but again. The rule is there, it’s plain as day he made head contact, previous folks did get suspended so why not this time.

IMO the NHL too many times worries about the impact to the game and the costs to the owners. Rather than the incident and the protection and safety of the players. If hits to the head were 4 game minimum suspension no questions asked, and multiplied 10 times for each hit after that . The hits to the head would stop overnight. There will be some growing minor pains, but if the NHL truly wanted to stop the head shots, they could.

If strong long suspensions happened owners would be on the hook and teams wins would suffer. With losses comes less fans, less fans = less money. But because NHL doesn’t want owners to pay the price, the craziness continues.

But the main problem is the NHL isn’t about player safety, it’s about ownership safety and wealth. When a player gets a shot just like Rust took and falls to the ice and dies, maybe the NHL will step up to the plate. But until then, don’t count on it. Because there is always another Rust in the minors, junior, college or overseas all too willing to step in. And we as fans all too willing to let the NHL off the hook.

It's not in the same universe as the Marleau hit in terms of outcome, recklessness, or rule violation. It's a horrible analogy.

I think that the NHL should be stricter with hits to the head but if you are concerned about concussions instead of using this opportunity to dump on a player/team, the NHL will need to look at far more than potential rule 48 violations bc there are other sources of head injuries. What about players hitting each other in the head during after-whistle scrums or in fights? What about a player running another into the boards and the player hits his head on the boards? What about high sticks to the head? All those are potential sources of concussions. And if you automatically suspend players bc of an inadvertent (not reckless) hit in which there is any significant head contact, IMO you'll encourage players to keep their heads down which might increase concussions. I'm not a fan of using "keep your head up, kid" as a way to completely excuse the hitter but often the player being hit did put themselves in a vulnerable position, which the NHL should discourage. The player that was hit has a responsibility too. Bottom line is that if you want to remove all significant head contact, the sport will be very different bc you'd need to take a lot of the physical aspects of play out of the game.

I think that if they want to do that, rule changes need to be put in place in the off season, not during the playoffs.

 

[Limekiller]

in my opinion the head was targeted.

In Kerry Fraser's and Puck Daddy's it was not. Both said it was not a suspendable hit. Kerry Fraser even basically said it was borderline being even 2 minutes, though he didn't quibble with it too much. Did you read either link I posted?

You keep saying he should have been suspended. Why are you a more objective and knowledgeable judge of this than either one of those individuals? Care to explain why anyone should take your word over theirs?

Can ANY Penguin fan explain why both of those impartial and knowledgeable individuals said it was not suspension worthy, yet you are still clamoring for one? Other than a simple desire for vengeance, which has nothing to do with the rules?

 

[jwhitesj]

I really doubt you'd see Sharks fans saying anything about it unless the opposition or neutral fans or just haters bringing up and slagging their team/player for no good reason. There's been a few hits before the Finals that were at least questionable that didn't get a thread. This didn't even deserve a thread had it not been the Finals. If this was between the Sharks-Pens in the regular season, does anyone honestly think this garners much or any interest like this? Doubtful.

The Brower hit on Hertl was way worse and that thread got closed down.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't understand the argument "So and So is a dirty player so this hit should be more suspendable than that hit" just as I also do not understand the argument "So and So is a clean honest player, so this hit should be ignored because of his good reputation".

This was hit to the head. It is suspension-worthy. DOPS decided to let this one go. There will absolutely be AT LEAST one more questionable hit this series. The Penguins have banked theirs, and the Sharks have used up theirs.

Probably because repeat offenders in almost any walk of life where enforcement of rules comes up get less slack and more discipline when they're classified as such. Every person with a history starts somewhere but it's up to the rules and the egregiousness of the action to determine if someone should be disciplined. This was not suspension worthy because the head was not the main point of contact. I've seen in the last series a head shot that didn't even get talked about and this one that's not even where the head is targeted or the main point of contact getting significantly more pub because it's the Finals. But the hit is nowhere near suspendable and nowhere near as bad as people asking for a suspension think it is.

Your last line is just lame. If the Pens are stupid enough to go chasing what they may see as a questionable hit in this series, they will probably lose. I think that team is smart enough and led well enough to not even bother with it in this series.

 

[CrypTic]

The Brower hit on Hertl was way worse and that thread got closed down.

Because ppl had talked about it (a bit) in the GDT. That was the reason given for closing it.

IOW you can only have a thread on a hit/play if the play was not notable enough to mention in the GDT.