Patrick Kane vs Auston Matthews
- Thread starter illpucks
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dellzor
Bo Horvat's Head
Probably Matthews when all things are done (and I hate the Leafs). Better defensively, a better goal scorer, and plays a much more stacked position. But Kane for now
Cubs2024WSChamps
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Really dumb thread here.
Unfair to AM on account of everything Kane has accomplished.
Kane has three Cups, and no matter what anybody wants to think, and the whole "but it's a team accomplishment" drivel that follows, it matters. It matters a whole lot.
When your a first overall pick expected to be the driver to bringing cups to your team, you better come thru. Kane not only came thru more then once, but has a reputation for being a playoff dream killer.
You can talk stats until your Maple Leaf blue in the face. There won't be that much of a difference between the two when all is said and done. AM will surely have more goals.
But until he starts bringing Cups to Toronto, this won't ever be close.
Unfair to AM on account of everything Kane has accomplished.
Kane has three Cups, and no matter what anybody wants to think, and the whole "but it's a team accomplishment" drivel that follows, it matters. It matters a whole lot.
When your a first overall pick expected to be the driver to bringing cups to your team, you better come thru. Kane not only came thru more then once, but has a reputation for being a playoff dream killer.
You can talk stats until your Maple Leaf blue in the face. There won't be that much of a difference between the two when all is said and done. AM will surely have more goals.
But until he starts bringing Cups to Toronto, this won't ever be close.
dj Mahoney
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Stuzchuk
Registered User
Kane... Matthews is too far away from what Kane's have done in his career. a Lot can can happen through out a player's career... ask E. Lindros how ONE HIT completely turned his career around. (ask again in 10 years)
Probably comes down to whether AM is capable of winning Art/Hart. Without these i dont think he has a shot.
Cubs2024WSChamps
Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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Seems alot of people refuse to acknowledge playoff performance.
I'm sorry, AM will never touch Kane and it's not even close unless he can lead the Leafs to multiple cups.
Regular season stats will be a wash. What separates men (Kane) from child (AM) is playoffs.
I'm a huge fan of AM, but he isn't in this conversation.
Kane VS Chelios is a better conversation
I'm sorry, AM will never touch Kane and it's not even close unless he can lead the Leafs to multiple cups.
Regular season stats will be a wash. What separates men (Kane) from child (AM) is playoffs.
I'm a huge fan of AM, but he isn't in this conversation.
Kane VS Chelios is a better conversation
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
im seeing a lot of cup talk. i dont know if Matthews will catch Kane in trophies, or have a better "legacy", but i think he could very easily be the better individual player. im not sure what one the poll is asking.
Samsquanch
Raging Bull Squatch
It pains me to say as a Sens fan. But if I got to choose one of the two players as a rookie to build a team around, Id lean towards Matthews.
Highly, highly unlikely he approaches Kanes career accomplishments. But having a HHoF cast supporting kane (and doing the heavy lifting defensively while he had the green light free wheel it) is the best scenario imaginable for a player like Kane.
If he landed in somewhere like CBJ, Arizona, Florida ect. instead of the Hawks who were ready to go supernova by the time he got there. Or if he spent a solid chunk of his career learning under a hard old school coach like Suter, Hitchcock, Jacques Martin (made Spezza cry like every second practice) - then Kane is probably a lot more similar to Phil Kessel than being one of the most revered players in the modern NHLs history.
Kane is an incredible player and obviously deserves his praise, he earned it. But not since Jagr landed on to what could have been one of the most dominant teams of all time in his first two NHL seasons (Lemieux + Jagr + Coffey + four other hall of famers = LOL) has a player walked into a better situation than Kane did with the Hawks. Especially considering his size and style of play.
Highly, highly unlikely he approaches Kanes career accomplishments. But having a HHoF cast supporting kane (and doing the heavy lifting defensively while he had the green light free wheel it) is the best scenario imaginable for a player like Kane.
If he landed in somewhere like CBJ, Arizona, Florida ect. instead of the Hawks who were ready to go supernova by the time he got there. Or if he spent a solid chunk of his career learning under a hard old school coach like Suter, Hitchcock, Jacques Martin (made Spezza cry like every second practice) - then Kane is probably a lot more similar to Phil Kessel than being one of the most revered players in the modern NHLs history.
Kane is an incredible player and obviously deserves his praise, he earned it. But not since Jagr landed on to what could have been one of the most dominant teams of all time in his first two NHL seasons (Lemieux + Jagr + Coffey + four other hall of famers = LOL) has a player walked into a better situation than Kane did with the Hawks. Especially considering his size and style of play.
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CokenoPepsi
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No they didn't.
They made the WCF their first year in the playoffs then won it the next year
Yes and no. It's entirely possible for him to put up a more impressive season than Kane's art ross, while still being second fiddle to McDavid. Hardware matters of course, but what McDavid is doing right now is insanity and there would be no shame in being #2 (Potentially) behind him. So it's really hard to judge just off hardware alone. If we take present day McDavid and throw him in Patty Kane's best season, would Kane still win the art ross with 106 points ? McDavid is on pace for 134 over a 82 game span. The game hasn't changed that much since 2015 where it can be attributed to inflation, McDavid is just that much better than the rest of the pack. Matthews could hypothetically score 60 goals, 100+ points and never win a hart/art ross because of McDavid, so I think it's important to compare their play/stats vs just hardware.
But AM has a LONG way to go before being in that conversation, let's start with at least 1 cup/1 conn smythe and then maybe we can consider him in the convo for best American, way too early right now.
Stephen
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What makes Patrick Kane really special in an all-time sense is he did all his winning at an insanely young age and then put his foot on the gas and became an elite producer. So while I'm rooting for Matthews and think he came out of the chute as a better producer earlier, it's the winning that sets Kane's early career apart.
Average ppg of 2-10 in current season is 1,3 PPG. Mcdavid is 26% better than that
For 15/16 average of 2-10 was about 1.02 and Kane PPG was around 26% higher.
So it seems like game changed that much. I mean last 2 Art Ross winners were just below 130 points. Between 14/15- 16/17 outside of Kane seasons there was one 100 point season(McDavid) and zero 90 point seasons.
Since 2015 (Kanes Art Ross) every art ross winner scored 100+. Since McDavid came into the league his PPG is much higher than everybody else. He's sitting at 1.34ppg, Kuch second at 1.22 and then you have guys like Kane/Malkin/Crosby/Marchand/Drai all between 1.16-1.10ppg. There's elite players, but then you have a clear separation between them and McDavid. If McDavid was winning but sitting in the same tier as those guys I'd agree, but there's clear separation between the elites and generational. Scoring has gone up since then but how much of that is due to the influx of young talent coming into the league ? Kucherov has emerged, guys like Marchand/Pasta have emerged, Drai, Matthews/Marner/Mackinnon have all come in and blew up, Rantanen is up there as well. The talent level now is higher than it has ever been, I think that's the cause of higher scoring, not any actual changes to the game itself. The higher points are a reflection of the amount of talent coming in to the league and not really the fundamentals of the game changing.
It's significantly more difficult to win the Art Ross/hart in the McDavid era than pre-McDavid and therefore it's really hard to judge someone in the McDavid era based on hardware alone. McDavid is going to dominate this era. So the idea that you need X amount of Art Rosses/Harts to be compared to Kane doesn't really work here, because Kane would have 0 if he played against current McDavid in 2015.
ColbyChaos
Marty Snoozeman's Father
If you put Matthews on those teams his totals would dip too and are we going to pretend the Leafs havent been hyped to the moon the last 3-4 years with their teams? Just because theyve been underachieving with Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Tavares, and Andersen doesnt mean you can flip around and go "well Kane got to play with Toews, Keith, and Hossa so its unfair".
I mean we all know McDavid is great. But he is not clearing all awards every year. Kane was competing with Crosby/Ovi, not sure how was that much easier.
Also defineity disagree with best era in terms of talent statement. Especially and 2-3 position . Players you mentiond are step below for example Ovi/Malkin or Sakic/Forsberg.
Fatass
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Hard to fairly decide now, as one guy is completing his career, and the other guy is just beginning his. I’d say if Matthews gets three Cups, where he is a dominant player in each, then he will be just as great as P. Kane.
SotasicA
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In all likelihood it will be Kane. The odds of Auston Matthews building a career as great as Kane's is surely below 50%. So many things can go wrong.
AM is such a liability on the defensive end, that he shouldn't even be in this conversation until he figures it out.
Ace Card Bedard
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People said the same about playing in a league with Crosby.
We don't know what will happen with McDavid's career, hopefully he'll stay healthy. If he does he'll be tough to beat for a long time.
Crosby, for all his talent, won 2 Art Ross trophies. The same number as Malkin and Marty St. Louis.
Can Matthews win an Art Ross and/or a Hart? Of course, he's an elite talent.
TopShelfYzerman
Gm 7 Double OT
Both are on a very similar career trajectory.
Kane has 103 g, 200 a, 303 pts in his first 317 r. season games.
Matthews has 191 g, 149 a, 340 pts in his first 324 r. season games.
Kaner is a bit behind Matthews from the gate. Plus lest we forget.... Kane beat a cab driver so he gets -1 pt for every cent he felt he was robbed.
Kane has 103 g, 200 a, 303 pts in his first 317 r. season games.
Matthews has 191 g, 149 a, 340 pts in his first 324 r. season games.
Kaner is a bit behind Matthews from the gate. Plus lest we forget.... Kane beat a cab driver so he gets -1 pt for every cent he felt he was robbed.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
Kane first 8 seasons in the NHL, 2008-2015: 3 Cups, 5 Conference Final appearances, 16 series wins
Matthews first 8 seasons in the NHL, 2017-2024: 0 Cups, 0 Conference Final appearances, 1 series win
Enough said
Matthews first 8 seasons in the NHL, 2017-2024: 0 Cups, 0 Conference Final appearances, 1 series win
Enough said
Matthews is more talented and the better season player, but Kane's legacy is superior.
If anything Matthews talent hurts him considering how bad he has been in the playoffs.
His g/60 goes from BY FAR the GOAT at 2/60 to 33 at 1.2 in the playoffs, it's simply inexcusable. Kane has basically played 90%+ of his career and is at 1.1 or the same as his season production, that's insane considering there is an outside chance that Matthews may statistically go down as the greatest goal scorer ever and he is barely outscoring Kane's entire career in the playoffs while he is in his prime.
Great players show up and Matthews hasn't done that, not only that but unlike Kane he has prioritized money over everything and is part of a rotten culture.
I'm a Leafs fan but if I know everything I do about both of them and I could take 1 as a rookie, I'd take Kane, as I said not because he is the more talented player, but because he:
1.Performs in the playoffs
2.Doesn't try and rake your team over the coals for every last dollar
If anything Matthews talent hurts him considering how bad he has been in the playoffs.
His g/60 goes from BY FAR the GOAT at 2/60 to 33 at 1.2 in the playoffs, it's simply inexcusable. Kane has basically played 90%+ of his career and is at 1.1 or the same as his season production, that's insane considering there is an outside chance that Matthews may statistically go down as the greatest goal scorer ever and he is barely outscoring Kane's entire career in the playoffs while he is in his prime.
Great players show up and Matthews hasn't done that, not only that but unlike Kane he has prioritized money over everything and is part of a rotten culture.
I'm a Leafs fan but if I know everything I do about both of them and I could take 1 as a rookie, I'd take Kane, as I said not because he is the more talented player, but because he:
1.Performs in the playoffs
2.Doesn't try and rake your team over the coals for every last dollar
