Patrick Kane vs Auston Matthews

[Holymakinaw]

What Marner does in terms of playmaking I find more impressive.

Equally as impressive, I'd say. Goals seem to be "everything" to so many, so Auston gets all the attention. But Marner is absolutely JAW-DROPPING most games, setting all these beauties up. The pair of them are just incredible.

 

[NyQuil]

Equally as impressive, I'd say. Goals seem to be "everything" to so many, so Auston gets all the attention. But Marner is absolutely JAW-DROPPING most games, setting all these beauties up. The pair of them are just incredible.

Marner is one of the elite playmakers in the league. I'm hoping Stutzle develops a bit of that kind of magic.

Elite goal scorers like Matthews are rarer, but I also think he needs Marner more than the other way around.

Tavares has dipped in terms of scoring goals since Marner was moved off his line.

 

[Madap]

As if Kane is 19 and just entering the league. Kane remains Kane. The guy can carry literally anyone. He’s had 20-40 points more than the second best point producer on his teams for the past what.. 5-6 years? Could you say the same about Matthews?

And we haven’t even discussed the 3 cups,
Conn Smythe, Hart trophies & cup winning goals etc..

Edit: This isn’t a knock on Matthews, it’s just that he’s being compared to one of the greatest player of his generation. Patty Kane did it all already and he’s still only 32.

All of what you said is true, but most of it shouldn't be relevant in this comparison. Kane has played on a bad team recently - no wonder he's leading his team in scoring by a lot. How can you hold a team stat like 3 cups against Matthews, particularly when he's been in the league for far less time than Kane? The Smythe is good I guess, but again, he only has that chance because his team got him there.

The Hart is the main thing separating them now, but even then, Matthews current season is just about as good as Kane's Hart season. Not Matthews fault that McDavid is putting up crazy numbers this year and will probably win the Hart. Plus, Matthews may still win this season and in the future. Kane didn't have his Hart at Matthew's age.

The fact is, Matthews has been better up to the same point in their careers, and there's no reason to suggest that he won't continue to do so.

 

[TimeZone]

Equally as impressive, I'd say. Goals seem to be "everything" to so many, so Auston gets all the attention. But Marner is absolutely JAW-DROPPING most games, setting all these beauties up. The pair of them are just incredible.

Goals are at a premium, love Marner but Matthews is on a different level.

 

[IPS]

The sad thing is this board has become so toxic I can't even tell if this is sarcasm anymore.

It's not. Laine, Barzal, Eichel and Aho are also all better than Matthews.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Goals are at a premium, love Marner but Matthews is on a different level.

Is he?

Three years ago, Marner had 94 points, last year was "on pace" for 93 points, and is now pacing for 104 points.

For Mathews, three years ago he "paced" for 88 points, last year he paced for 93 points, and this season is pacing for.....104 points.

Virtually identical(Marner with a slight edge in points). Matthews simply scores way more goals. Marner w/way more assists.

I'd say their level is exactly the same.

 

[winnipegger]

What is with all these Matthews polls. Voted Kane. Kaner is Hall of Famer Matthews is still hoping for a career like that.

 

[David Suzuki]

Are we just going to systematically compare Matthews to every NHLer ever?

Who will go down as the best player with a dirt stache crosby vs matthews

 

[Sky04]

Is he?

Three years ago, Marner had 94 points, last year was "on pace" for 93 points, and is now pacing for 104 points.

For Mathews, three years ago he "paced" for 88 points, last year he paced for 93 points, and this season is pacing for.....104 points.

Virtually identical(Marner with a slight edge in points). Matthews simply scores way more goals. Marner w/way more assists.

I'd say their level is exactly the same.

The leafs fans base love to downplay Marner to make Matthews look better for some reason. Instead of praising Marner for his production it's like they want him to be scoring less so they say Matthews is far ahead.

 

[Baksfamous112]

All of what you said is true, but most of it shouldn't be relevant in this comparison. Kane has played on a bad team recently - no wonder he's leading his team in scoring by a lot. How can you hold a team stat like 3 cups against Matthews, particularly when he's been in the league for far less time than Kane? The Smythe is good I guess, but again, he only has that chance because his team got him there.

The Hart is the main thing separating them now, but even then, Matthews current season is just about as good as Kane's Hart season. Not Matthews fault that McDavid is putting up crazy numbers this year and will probably win the Hart. Plus, Matthews may still win this season and in the future. Kane didn't have his Hart at Matthew's age.

The fact is, Matthews has been better up to the same point in their careers, and there's no reason to suggest that he won't continue to do so.

At the same exact age as Matthews is right now, Kane already had a Cup ring and was on its way for a second one as well as a Conn Smythe trophy.

I’m sorry, but unless all you count is regular season stats, then Matthews is far, far away from Kane.

Also, your argument that Kane was playing with better players is non-sense. Matthews has fed from Marner’s play all of his career.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Kane is currently 32 and has 403 goals and 1,074 points. Presumably he'll push those totals a bit higher by the end of this season. My career forecast model suggests that by the time he's 32, Matthews is on track to have more than 600 goals and close to 1,150 points. So, strictly in terms of regular season production, there's a credible argument that Matthews will be ahead of Kane - especially if you give goal-scoring a premium.

However, I'm voting for Kane for two reasons:

1. There's inherent uncertainty in any long-term forecast. When two players are relatively close, I'll take the one who's actually put up excellent numbers through age 32, rather than the one who's merely on track to. A single bad injury can seriously alter someone's career trajectory (Stamkos is a good example).

2. Kane has an extraordinary playoff resume - roughly on par with Sergei Fedorov, Joe Sakic, and Sidney Crosby. Not to say that Matthews can't or won't become a great playoff performer, but I'll go with the player who has already established their reputation, rather than someone who merely has the potential to.

All that being said - this is a closer comparison than I initially thought. By the way - I don't think Kane is the greatest American born player. He's hasn't yet surpassed Chris Chelios or Frank Brimsek.

 

[TimeZone]

Is he?

Three years ago, Marner had 94 points, last year was "on pace" for 93 points, and is now pacing for 104 points.

For Mathews, three years ago he "paced" for 88 points, last year he paced for 93 points, and this season is pacing for.....104 points.

Virtually identical(Marner with a slight edge in points). Matthews simply scores way more goals. Marner w/way more assists.

I'd say their level is exactly the same.

I value goals more than assists, when Matthews was having those wrist issues Marner disappeared.

Also Matthews has an extra gear that very few players have, he can dominate a game like only a couple of others can in this league.

 

[TimeZone]

Is he?

Three years ago, Marner had 94 points, last year was "on pace" for 93 points, and is now pacing for 104 points.

For Mathews, three years ago he "paced" for 88 points, last year he paced for 93 points, and this season is pacing for.....104 points.

Virtually identical(Marner with a slight edge in points). Matthews simply scores way more goals. Marner w/way more assists.

I'd say their level is exactly the same.

I value goals more than assists, when Matthews was having those wrist issues Marner disappeared.

Also Matthews has an extra gear that very few players have, he can dominate a game like only a couple of others can in this league.

 

[TimeZone]

Is he?

Three years ago, Marner had 94 points, last year was "on pace" for 93 points, and is now pacing for 104 points.

For Mathews, three years ago he "paced" for 88 points, last year he paced for 93 points, and this season is pacing for.....104 points.

Virtually identical(Marner with a slight edge in points). Matthews simply scores way more goals. Marner w/way more assists.

I'd say their level is exactly the same.

I value goals more than assists, when Matthews was having those wrist issues Marner disappeared.

Also Matthews has an extra gear that very few players have, he can dominate a game like only a couple of others can in this league.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Kane but matthews has a chance

 

[shaner82]

Ask again in 10 years.

 

[pcruz]

Although Matthews has the opportunity to surpass Kane as the best American player of all time, he has a long, long way to go.

What Kane has done in his career will be hard to match, never mind surpass.

As it stands right now, one would have to play it safe and say that no, Matthews will not surpass Patrick Kane.

 

[shaner82]

Marner is one of the elite playmakers in the league. I'm hoping Stutzle develops a bit of that kind of magic.

Elite goal scorers like Matthews are rarer, but I also think he needs Marner more than the other way around.

Tavares has dipped in terms of scoring goals since Marner was moved off his line.

If he needs Marner, someone should really tell him that. 40 goals as a rookie with 2 rookies as wingers (not named Marner) doesn't indicate he needs Marner.

Is he at his best with Marner? Well clearly. Every scorer is better with a top notch playmaker, but that's entirely different than needing him.

Matthews has proven he can score a ton of goals with or without Marner.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Matthews needs to turn himself into a much better defensive player to make this close. His offensive stats and accolades are very unlikely to reach Kane’s. If he has a clear positional and defensive advantage, it becomes closer.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Kane is currently 32 and has 403 goals and 1,074 points. Presumably he'll push those totals a bit higher by the end of this season. My career forecast model suggests that by the time he's 32, Matthews is on track to have more than 600 goals and close to 1,150 points. So, strictly in terms of regular season production, there's a credible argument that Matthews will be ahead of Kane - especially if you give goal-scoring a premium.

However, I'm voting for Kane for two reasons:

1. There's inherent uncertainty in any long-term forecast. When two players are relatively close, I'll take the one who's actually put up excellent numbers through age 32, rather than the one who's merely on track to. A single bad injury can seriously alter someone's career trajectory (Stamkos is a good example).

2. Kane has an extraordinary playoff resume - roughly on par with Sergei Fedorov, Joe Sakic, and Sidney Crosby. Not to say that Matthews can't or won't become a great playoff performer, but I'll go with the player who has already established their reputation, rather than someone who merely has the potential to.

All that being said - this is a closer comparison than I initially thought. By the way - I don't think Kane is the greatest American born player. He's hasn't yet surpassed Chris Chelios or Frank Brimsek.

Very fair and well thought out assessment.

 

[shaner82]

Matthews needs to turn himself into a much better defensive player to make this close. His offensive stats and accolades are very unlikely to reach Kane’s. If he has a clear positional and defensive advantage, it becomes closer.

Very unlikely to reach Kane's offensive numbers? You'll have to explain this to me because the numbers so far indicate exactly the opposite, and the only thing we can go by is the numbers so far.

As for accolades, sure, that will be tougher. Matthews is only 23 though and is very likely to get the rocket this year. All evidence points to him winning more scoring titles in the future based on his skill set. A Hart is definitely not out of the question. My guess is he'll be in the running this year although won't win it.

So just not sure where this very unlikely stuff is coming from.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Gotta be Mathews with all that playoff SUCKsess

 

[Maplebeasts]

He has a lot of time left and accolades needed to get there. That being said this current version of Matthews is just about as good as Kane ever was. Hard to argue with a <100 point, 60 goal pace over his last 82 games.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Matthews essentially plays with Kane 2.0 in Marner and its clear that Matthews>Marner and Marner>=Kane. I am not talking about past accomplishments but going forward

Although Matthews is noticeably better than Marner, I don't see Marner as Kane's equal at all.

 

[cowboy82nd]

I don't know if Matthews can beat Kane's 3 cups

I thought we were talking about individual players and not their teams?