Post-Game Talk: Pathetic

[The Shermanator]

And for god sakes someone get the-fan out of here with that reasonable post crap.

 

[AvsWraith]

Don't you think this comes down to playoff experience though? In the playoffs as a player you have to be willing to sacrifice the body to make a play. IE go in the gritty areas to win those battles. Thats what makes teams more successful than others in the playoffs. The Avs are obviously shying away from these situations and losing those 50/50 battles. Would you not have to think that Roy would have conveyed that message to his team? They just aren't doing this at all. I saw several times where the Avs players weren't moving their feet at all towards the play.
Or do you guys think this is just a case of last change coming into play?

I'm sure the playoff experience factors in, but it's not the whole reason. Look at Niederreiter, Fontaine, and Haula. They are outworking McGinn, PAP, ROR, McCleod, ect. They have no playoff experience, but they are giving it their all. Wild just worked harder. They wanted it and we didn't.

 

[Spleenless Wonder21]

Avs are depleted due to injuries, young, have a stop-gap defensive corps, had one of their best players taken out bush league style, yet had a chance late in both games at Minisoda (Excel's a tough venue to win).

There's a difference between venting & full on melting down. Colorado's series' with Detroit in '97, Edmonton in '98, Detroit in '02, & (le sigh) Minisoda in 2003 were WTF/PANIC moment series. This one hasn't sniffed that level yet. YES, games 3 & 4 have been extremely frustrating, but this team doesnt have the same talent, experience, & expectations as the aforementioned squads. I'm the most negative person you'll ever meet...EVARR, and this thread makes me feel like Polly Sunshine! Haha

 

[Bender]

Don't you think this comes down to playoff experience though? In the playoffs as a player you have to be willing to sacrifice the body to make a play. IE go in the gritty areas to win those battles. Thats what makes teams more successful than others in the playoffs. The Avs are obviously shying away from these situations and losing those 50/50 battles. Would you not have to think that Roy would have conveyed that message to his team? They just aren't doing this at all. I saw several times where the Avs players weren't moving their feet at all towards the play.
Or do you guys think this is just a case of last change coming into play?

They played a couple of bad games, we'll see how well they bounce back saturday. I didn't see too much of that in games 1 & 2. Yeo seems to have more success when he's able to match Suter against other teams best lines...when he can't, they have a much harder time.

Don't forget, this Avs team has had the benefit of having 2/3 extremely strong forward lines all season which made it tough for other teams to get the match ups they want and consequently, the Avs were the best road team in the league. Right now, they don't have that with Duchene out and they're gonna have to battle through it.

Put it this way, I don't think the wilkd are as good as they've shown the past 2 games and I don't think the Avs are as bad as they've shown the past 2 games.

 

[Joe Sakic]

Wilson and Guenin were terrible.

 

[IceRat]

the thing that bothers me is that we are supposed to be the quick team but MN looks so much faster than us the last couple games ... they have decided to force the play on O and not lay back and be reactionary like they did in the first 2 games

clearly not having Duchene and Barrie reduces our speed factor immensely

the game is a puck possession game and we aren't supporting each other and possessing the puck and when we do we treat it like it's Radioactive, Radioactive

 

[dahrougem2]

For me, the much bigger problem is Cliche. He's playing WAY too much and providing very little. We are going to need some offensive help from that 3rd line at some point and he's just not cutting it at all, in my opinion. You can't really blame the guy, he's a career AHLer who's barely adequate for a 4th line role and somehow he's anchoring our 3rd line right now? I saw more from Malone from the first half of this game then i've seen from Cliche all season. When Roy made the switch and put Talbot in his place ast center, i thought it was a big improvement in that 3rd period.

He's way out of place, as is McLeod. Two fringe 4th liners, Cliche more so than McLeod, playing what are amounting to big minutes on our 3rd line and as primary PK'ers? It's starting to cost us. Our entire bottom 6 is useless and the Wild know it, which is why they're focusing every ounce of their attention on our top 6 forwards, not giving them room to breathe. They know the bottom 6 won't do anything

 

[Punished ROR]

Bottom six REALLY misses Mitchell and his puck possession.

And isn't that hilarious, considering how many posters around here spent all season complaining about the guy. That's karma for ya.

Mitchell isn't my favorite player ever, but the guy plays above average defense, chips in offense and can slot in the top 6. Not everyone can be a 1st liner.

Yes the injuries are significant. But IMO there are some serious issues that can be addressed with respect to the Avs' play right now:

- They need to start finishing their checks, especially on the forecheck. They're making life far too easy for the Wild. Start throwing the body and you'll force them to rush their passes. It just looks way too easy right now. They have all the time in the world.

- The drop pass to the defender zone entry thing does not work against a trapping team. We relied on this heavily during the season, especially on the PP, and it's really, really not working now because of how heavily MN is clogging up the neutral zone. The D carrying it in general is problematic because no one can do it with speed, and it's forcing the offense to lose all their forward momentum, so the puck carrier doesn't even have any options once he gains the zone. Stop this, Roy. Dump it in if you have to, but get the puck deep. The turnovers at the blue line are absolutely killing the offensive momentum.

- EJ ... if you get the puck between the circles just rip it as soon as you get it. If you hesitate, forget it, man, you lost your opportunity. How has he not figured this out by now? How is it that his coaches haven't found a way to get through to him?

Probably a lot more but whatever. This post will be lost in some more DOOM N GLOOM

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

the_fan being the voice of reason? What in the world .....

Dog and cats living together....mass hysteria...

 

[Spleenless Wonder21]

Dog and cats living together....mass hysteria...

You said crossing the streams was bad.

 

[IceRat]

- They need to start finishing their checks, especially on the forecheck. They're making life far too easy for the Wild. Start throwing the body and you'll force them to rush their passes. It just looks way too easy right now. They have all the time in the world.

yep, MN is controlling the play deep in our zone ... our forwards are being forced to exert all their energy trying to fight for the puck down deep and bail our our D .... by the time we get possession we have to go the full length of the ice which usually just results in a line change and loss of possession or being to gassed to sustain any kind of pressure

 

[tigervixxxen]

So this is how it's going to end huh? After 7 months of magic, feels like midnight is approaching. Not that it wasn't real but it wasn't meant to last. All that hard work just leads to nothing. We are not unique in this, a lot of good teams are going to be done by the end of the weekend too.

Obviously there is one more shot, win at home and a lot of the tide turns. This team has bounced back all year, thrived in the underdog role but it also feels a little too late this time. The tank feels close to empty.

As far as the lack of offense, when you talk about it for 3 days straight it's no shock that it's in everyone's head, which is a bit absurd to make it such a focal point after scoring 4 the two games prior. Now it will be in their heads even more. That and they always play put of sync after more than one day of rest. It's really no surprise. I said one team was going to win this one handily.

All comes down to Saturday, at least they have that.

 

[10coach*]

Does Malone have a future with the Avs? Watched him a lot while he was with NoDak and wasn't a big fan of him but he played the rough and tumble North Dakota style which translates to the NHL pretty well.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Doubtful. He'd have to make it as the 13th forward next year and with his contract up they'll probably just let him go.

 

[mattand1mixtape]

Does Malone have a future with the Avs? Watched him a lot while he was with NoDak and wasn't a big fan of him but he played the rough and tumble North Dakota style which translates to the NHL pretty well.

Unless they somehow create some depth I think they keep him. However, he could improve in several areas most importantly moving his gal damn feet towards the puck. With everyone returning from injuries next year I dont see much room from him. I'd like to see if Heard could fill a similar role sometime soon.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I only saw the first two periods, but it doesn't sound like much changed in the 3rd.

No matter what happens in the next week or so, this season has still been a huge success, as far as I'm concerned.

These last two games have to show Roy that the defense just isn't good enough to compete with top teams in the West. If someone traps, we don't have the defense to beat them or move the puck to the forwards.

Guenin was an abomination tonight. Why would he even try to skate it up? Play within yourself.

Elliott has to play Saturday, no?

In the first period, Hishon had some shifts with Landy and Stastny. Then, he was plastered to the bench. Didn't really make sense to me, but alright.

 

[Avs_19]

I hear what you're saying about this season being a success regardless but this would still be a huge letdown if we lose after going up 2-0. It's not over yet though. Hopefully we can win at home and then get Duchene back for game 6.

I think Elliott should play on Saturday. As bad as Guenin was tonight, I think we need him for the PK so Wilson should sit.

What has become of this PP is so disappointing. Missing Duchene is huge but with some of the offensive talent on this team, we shouldn't be this bad. It's a train wreck when we're on the PP. If we lose this series, the inability to do anything on the PP will be a big reason why.

Hishon was pretty much done after his turnover on the PP we had at the beginning of the second period. Tough situation for him for sure but he just gave it away at the blueline. I think he played a bit on the PP later on but it wasn't much.

 

[Taak19]

I saw the first period, a few minutes of the second and listened on radio app for the third. Glad is missed most of it.

Except not really since I was working late, but hey, at least I got OT.

 

[the_fan]

Roy said he would be very surprised if Duchene played game 6 and definitely not game 5

 

[drhiii]

Game of Emotions

Hockey is a game of emotions. Where is it? There is been a lot of excellent analysis in this thread. My $0.01 is... I've watched throughout the years the culture of the game change. We have a local Div I college hockey team and watching interviews with the now quitting coach, and the players, was agonizing. Constantly adopting calm and rationalizing like a lawyer what just happened.

This eve watched a some of the pre then post game interviews. Same thing. Lawerly calm. Are you kidding me? All I heard were rationalizations before, and after. From the players. Are you kidding me? They played exactly the way they interviewed...

X's and O's, skillsets, matchups, all ultra important fer sure. Plus.... Hockey is a game of emotions. Where is it?

Read somewhere Roy needs to start breaking things. That would beat this incessant lawerly rationalizing calm....

 

[c0rn1]

Wow, people here are going off like nuts...
This is a damn young team without their #1 & #3 center, #1 PMD + PP spec on an already weak defense and some wet pants in a hostile building. Give those guys a break, will ya? Sakic and Roy know for sure that something has to change with the defense. 2 slots in the top4 have to be nailed down which might happen IF Siemens/Bigras step up next season. These playoff games made it clearly visible that Hejda is certainly well past his prime and guenin/Benoit/Holden are playing well above their positions (which should be 3rd pairing and not 2nd/1st). The one I am majorly disappointed in is PAP who either still suffers an injury, is a playoff choker or became a lazy bum and maybe Hejda who seems lost out there which might drag Johnson down as well.
Give the rest of the boys some slack since it's the first playoffs for 11 of our squad. My hope is that we will somehow be able to win the home games or push the series to 7 games to get them as much experience as possible and show them that half-arsed efforts won't take them anywhere in the playoffs. You can't rely 55 minutes on your goalie to even the laziness within the last 5 with some lategame heroics. Will work sometimes but not very often.

EDIT: I have to agree with the poster before me. Emotion/Passion should be increased in whichever way. And to quote Don Cherry (ya, ya ...): "Before you think of playing the offense, go out there and lay 3 hits, so you make sure you are actually in the game." That is what they should do next game. Go out, be physically involved in the game, push back and then get the offense going.

 

[mattand1mixtape]

Wow, people here are going off like nuts...
This is a damn young team without their #1 & #3 center, #1 PMD + PP spec on an already weak defense and some wet pants in a hostile building. Give those guys a break, will ya? Sakic and Roy know for sure that something has to change with the defense. 2 slots in the top4 have to be nailed down which might happen IF Siemens/Bigras step up next season. These playoff games made it clearly visible that Hejda is certainly well past his prime and guenin/Benoit/Holden are playing well above their positions (which should be 3rd pairing and not 2nd/1st). The one I am majorly disappointed in is PAP who either still suffers an injury, is a playoff choker or became a lazy bum and maybe Hejda who seems lost out there which might drag Johnson down as well.
Give the rest of the boys some slack since it's the first playoffs for 11 of our squad. My hope is that we will somehow be able to win the home games or push the series to 7 games to get them as much experience as possible and show them that half-arsed efforts won't take them anywhere in the playoffs. You can't rely 55 minutes on your goalie to even the laziness within the last 5 with some lategame heroics. Will work sometimes but not very often.

EDIT: I have to agree with the poster before me. Emotion/Passion should be increased in whichever way. And to quote Don Cherry (ya, ya ...): "Before you think of playing the offense, go out there and lay 3 hits, so you make sure you are actually in the game." That is what they should do next game. Go out, be physically involved in the game, push back and then get the offense going.

So pretty much what I was stating? Lack of playoff inexperience. This in my opinion boils down to players making those sacrifices to take the body in order to make the right play, which the Avs aren't doing. Yes, I agree, the absences of Tanguey, Dutchy, and Barrie without a doubt have bearing on this series. I know this.

You're right, there was a serious lack of passion and emotion in the last 2 games.
Lets get real here, besides the injuries, did the team win the 50/50 battles? Did the team play with the same passion that got them here? Did the team play really play physical at all? I know for a fact I saw Bordy, Wilson, and several others steer away from plays in which they could(should) have lit the puck posseser up without hesitation. Instead shy'd away from it. This is where playoff experience comes into play. They have to know that they have to make these sort of plays. As a hockey player you cant shy away from these type of plays that can possibly dictate the pace of the game! Im not sure who it was, but someone for minny ending in number in 2 made Bordy look like a fool for not laying a seriously huge hit.

Also, the fact that the Avs aren't shooting the puck on the PP, specifically after Roy addressed the issue (at least towards the media), again sits on the players. You know Roy is telling his players what to do, however its up to them to convey that message on the ice.

I guess the fact that both teams have won their home games really makes a guy wonder if the home ice advantage really plays a big role here. I think that home ice plays a big part, especially in this series, with these two teams.

Yeah, we will see how the team reacts towards these losses on Saturday with home ice.

 

[AvsWraith]

Still can't believe they only got 12 shots. That's just so demoralizing.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Still can't believe they only got 12 shots. That's just so demoralizing.

5 shots on goal even strength. ****ing five!

well 8 if one counts those shots with an empty net when avs had 6 players. but even that's pathetic.

and here are those 5 shots

Wrist 51 ft. O'Reilly
Slap 61 ft. Holden
Slap 49 ft. Parenteau
Slap 50 ft. O'Reilly
Wrist 37 ft. Guenin

 

[Ivan13]

5 shots on goal even strength. ****ing five!

well 8 if one counts those shots with an empty net when avs had 6 players. but even that's pathetic.

and here are those 5 shots

That's what happens when you have 1 defenseman on the team who doesn't handle the puck like a hot potato.