Proposal: Patch for a 1st, 2nd, Conditional 2nd if he re-signs. What teams make this deal?

[Starat327]

Except we are not getting a Kotkaniemi type prospect in a Patch trade. We are after draft picks. We would be extremely lucky to draft a grade A prospect. The question and answer is different based on what team you ask. Some teams need a Kotkaniemi type prospect more than Patch cause they are rebuilding and some teams need Patch more cause they have few holes in their roster and they want to compete for a cup.

All you are doing is proving my point.

Ottawa was expecting to compete this year, and now they're staring down the barrel of a Top 5 pick being forfeited for 2 years of Duchene. The risk of having that happen to someone who isnt a true contender is likely to scare most of them off from making that trade until at least the deadline.

Conversely, while a contender may be looking to add a productive player, more and more we are seeing that teams are defaulting to keeping a productive ELC and extending the window.

All this is beside the original point of mine that context is extremely important when it comes to asking why "a proven 30 goal NHL player isn't worth a first round pick".

 

[Habs Halifax]

All you are doing is proving my point.

Ottawa was expecting to compete this year, and now they're staring down the barrel of a Top 5 pick being forfeited for 2 years of Duchene. The risk of having that happen to someone who isnt a true contender is likely to scare most of them off from making that trade until at least the deadline.

Conversely, while a contender may be looking to add a productive player, more and more we are seeing that teams are defaulting to keeping a productive ELC and extending the window.

All this is beside the original point of mine that context is extremely important when it comes to asking why "a proven 30 goal NHL player isn't worth a first round pick".

Not proving your point cause I don't think teams like the Sens should make a move for Patch. I did not want to trade Sergachev+ for Duchene cause we were not close enough. Neither were the Sens. That was a major gamble.

 

[Starat327]

Not proving your point cause I don't think teams like the Sens should make a move for Patch. I did not want to trade Sergachev+ for Duchene cause we were not close enough. Neither were the Sens. That was a major gamble.

Lets try this again. Montreal fans are doing the whole "lol at a 30G scorer not being worth a 1st round pick."

My point is that its heavily dependent on where that 1st is coming from. That's all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lets try this again. Montreal fans are doing the whole "lol at a 30G scorer not being worth a 1st round pick."

My point is that its heavily dependent on where that 1st is coming from. That's all.

Well, Patch is worth a 1st round pick and more. How would you feel if you got 2 2nd round picks for Schenn? And yes, it depends on the team but most teams that would be intersted would be legit playoff teams. Of course there is always risks. Blues calculated their risks when they traded for Schenn.

Sens were not doing well when they traded for Duchene and they had other factors at play with Turris. They gambled on Duchene turning around their downward spin and it was a bad gamble. They were desperate and it usually don't work out well.

 

[Starat327]

Well, Patch is worth a 1st round pick and more. How would you feel if you got 2 2nd round picks for Schenn? And yes, it depends on the team but most teams that would be intersted would be legit playoff teams. Of course there is always risks. Blues calculated their risks when they traded for Schenn.

Im not sure why i bother. Certain teams are not going to be interested in spending a first round pick on Patches. Vancouver, for instance. People in this thread, and others, are taking this confrontational stance as though that means he isnt worth a 1st round pick, when that isnt what theyre saying. They're simply saying the value to their team isnt a first round pick, due to their status.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Im not sure why i bother. Certain teams are not going to be interested in spending a first round pick on Patches. Vancouver, for instance. People in this thread, and others, are taking this confrontational stance as though that means he isnt worth a 1st round pick, when that isnt what theyre saying. They're simply saying the value to their team isnt a first round pick, due to their status.

Right back at you buddy.

 

[Stuzchuk]

if he goes back to what eh was, maybe a VERY late 1st (27-31) but I wouldnt count on that 2nd 2nd

may also would have to take a dump for 1yr or 2

 

[strongcomp05]

Im not sure why i bother. Certain teams are not going to be interested in spending a first round pick on Patches. Vancouver, for instance. People in this thread, and others, are taking this confrontational stance as though that means he isnt worth a 1st round pick, when that isnt what theyre saying. They're simply saying the value to their team isnt a first round pick, due to their status.

thanks for stating the obvious and taking 11 posts to do it

 

[strongcomp05]

if he goes back to what eh was, maybe a VERY late 1st (27-31) but I wouldnt count on that 2nd 2nd

may also would have to take a dump for 1yr or 2

id expect nothing less from a sens fan

 

[Andrei79]

As an Oil fan, I'd be interested. I think he'd look great with Draisaitl. We'd need max retention (50%) as well as send Caggulia the other way, but I'd willingly pay 1st (top 3 protected) + 2nd. Caggulia still has some potential to be a middle 6 guy, just wildly inconsistent.

We could add the conditional 2nd for re-signing him, but it would only be for show - zero chance we re-sign him.

I'd do that. Definitely.

I agree btw, he'd be killer with Draisaitl.

 

[Starat327]

thanks for stating the obvious and taking 11 posts to do it

If it was that obvious, we wouldnt see the posts I was referencing. Good effort, though.

 

[I Like Eich]

i would be tempted to offer STL 2019 1st from BUF, but since Sabres are still > 1 year away from contending and it's highly unlikely he'd re-sign, it probably wouldn't be wise. But I'd love to see him on Eichel's wing

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Im not sure why i bother. Certain teams are not going to be interested in spending a first round pick on Patches. Vancouver, for instance. People in this thread, and others, are taking this confrontational stance as though that means he isnt worth a 1st round pick, when that isnt what theyre saying. They're simply saying the value to their team isnt a first round pick, due to their status.

It's a concept they just can't comprehend... which is baffling, because we're actually conceding their point. He is worth a 1st+. He's a top-end goal scorer with a pretty long pedigree that proves it.

Pacioretty's lowered value isn't because of Pacioretty the player, but rather the context of the situation. Other teams' needs... other teams' trajectories... the steaming mess in Montreal...

Insisting on analyzing this in a vacuum and, therefore, ignoring all context, is dishonest.

 

[johnnybbadd]

Why do teams ever make trades. It's not like a pending UFA was ever traded before right? . Ever consider that one year of Patch at $4.5M AAV is very good value.

I don’t see any reason for a team to give more for a player that they have to extend themselves and sign and trades don’t happen in the NHL because it is a dumb way to operate. If you look at the McDonaugh trade, the value was right for his existing contact which consisted of 1 full season and 2 playoff runs. The fact that Tampa has extended him now has nothing to do with the trade. I think that Montreal could get more at the deadline when some teams know where they are and what they need. I also think that the Duchene trade is another reason why a team should not trade a 1st before December. All the GMs in the league saw how that turned out and should be wary of giving up a 1st for Patches.

 

[Newsworthy]

Makes no sense to give up a lottery pick for Max.
Not sure what Montreal is asking for but a late first and a second is reasonable.
I Just Don't see how that helps them compete when the team needs talent now.
Next year's draft isn't as deep.

 

[ThorNton Apologist]

Tierney
Norris
2019 2nd FLA becomes a 2020 1st if he resigns in SJ

 

[ole ole]

Makes no sense to give up a lottery pick for Max.
Not sure what Montreal is asking for but a late first and a second is reasonable.
I Just Don't see how that helps them compete when the team needs talent now.
Next year's draft isn't as deep.

Next yr's draft is C deep.

 

[slappipappi]

Patches is still one of the best goal scorers in the NHL. I really doubt that GMs wouldn't be interested in a really good two-way forward.

We have seen bottom pairing dmen get two 2nd rounds picks at the TDL. Patches is worth a ransom here.

Patches was a consistent 30 goal scorer until last year, when he had 17. There would be some uncertainty where he would be now.

He has never been "one of the best goal scorers in the NHL", that would be reserved for players that get 45 + goals.

He's a 1-year rental coming off a poor season.

He's not worth a ransom, but is certainly worth a late first and other stuff. A first and 2 2nds? That's pushing it.

 

[Cane mutiny]

A 1st for one year of Patches is enough, and add the conditional 2nd if he works out and re-signs. I think a team that needed scoring would consider that deal. They would maybe throw in a lower end prospect they have in excess, but that extra 2nd makes it too much.

 

[sansabri]

Patches was a consistent 30 goal scorer until last year, when he had 17. There would be some uncertainty where he would be now.

He has never been "one of the best goal scorers in the NHL", that would be reserved for players that get 45 + goals.

He's a 1-year rental coming off a poor season.

He's not worth a ransom, but is certainly worth a late first and other stuff. A first and 2 2nds? That's pushing it.

Ah, OK. So when you're done counting those on one hand, you'll still have a couple of fingers left.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Makes no sense to give up a lottery pick for Max.
Not sure what Montreal is asking for but a late first and a second is reasonable.
I Just Don't see how that helps them compete when the team needs talent now.
Next year's draft isn't as deep.

Honestly, you think we can fill the holes in our roster overnight to turn our roster into a contender? Think about the reason why we want to trade Patch to begin with? It's not about this season. It's about a rebuild. Gallagher and under (in age) is something we can build on and we are not a old team. Now please, tell me all about Price and Weber and how they are done and we need to get desperate to add pieces around them now. Come on man.

Are we asking for a lottery pick? Not necessarily. Not sure where you drew this conclusion. I am fully aware of the type of 1st that would be offered and it's coming from a team that is a contender or a legit playoff team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He has never been "one of the best goal scorers in the NHL", that would be reserved for players that get 45 + goals..

Since the 2011/2012 season and including his off year last year.... Never been one of the best goal scores in the NHL eh? You don't know what you are talking about. Patch was able to acomplish these stats with the terrible center depth in Montreal as well.

How about if we remove last season? (2011-2017)

 

[Starat327]

Patches was a consistent 30 goal scorer until last year, when he had 17. There would be some uncertainty where he would be now.

He has never been "one of the best goal scorers in the NHL", that would be reserved for players that get 45 + goals.

He's a 1-year rental coming off a poor season.

He's not worth a ransom, but is certainly worth a late first and other stuff. A first and 2 2nds? That's pushing it.

In a thread about Patches, I definitely didnt expect this to be the dumbest thing i'd read.

 

[ole ole]

He has never been "one of the best goal scorers in the NHL", that would be reserved for players that get 45 + goals.

The award for the dumbest post ever on HF Boards goes to..........

 

[jfhabs]

Tierney
Norris
2019 2nd FLA becomes a 2020 1st if he resigns in SJ

I would do that. Good offer. I think the Sharks would have good chances of retaining him if they wanted. I believe Pac has familly in Cali.