Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?

[Killion]

I can honestly say I no longer give a flying **** what that particular clown has to say, write or twit.

You are Cleansed my Son. Can I get a Hallelujah?!. Louder. No, LOUDER.

 

[ATHF]

As such, you should be able to empathize. The "Dead Wings" or "Dead Things" ring any Division Bells'?. Your team was inches from being nothing but a memory, a footnote in the pantheon of once successful NHL franchises' circa 1982 had Mike Illitch not stepped in to save the day.

I was a fan of theirs beginning in '89 so I missed out on living through that, but if they had needed to be moved, they should have been moved, my favorite team or not. Hell, I didn't want the Jets to move when they did, but I knew that there was no choice once the ownership decided they couldn't stomach the losses with no salary cap while a new arena was built...

I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. Markets that don't support teams shouldn't be able to keep them forever based on the "potential" that they might one day start supporting the team...

 

[Killion]

I was a fan of theirs beginning in '89 so I missed out on living through that, but if they had needed to be moved, they should have been moved, my favorite team or not.

MotorCity was experiencing a downturn combined with the vagaries of years of alcoholic ownership in one Bruce Norris. Ran it into the ground. Party Central. The teams Council, from the late 50's & into the 60's was John Ziegler, who of course went on to become "El Presidente'" (in name only of course) of the NHL due to the fact that he very likely had compromising photographs of any number of the then current BOG's. Caligula. John Jr. had the wardrobe & haircut for the job, unfortunately not really anyone home when you rang the doorbell despite all the bright lights shining from the windows.

Its important to understand the history of this league & its practices franchise by franchise, decade by decade in order to understand how one winds up where we are, today. I dont know how you mess up franchises' in a Detroit or Chicago (unless your partners are Jim Beam, Jack Daniels & Johnny Walker), but left to their own devices in both cases it was a very near thing. Phoenix, in my opinion. has been treated to same. Reprobate Ownership. Does a Leopard change its Spots?.

 

[ATHF]

MotorCity was experiencing a downturn combined with the vagaries of years of alcoholic ownership in one Bruce Norris. Ran it into the ground. Party Central. The teams Council, from the late 50's & into the 60's was John Ziegler, who of course went on to become "El Presidente'" (in name only of course) of the NHL due to the fact that he very likely had compromising photographs of any number of the then current BOG's. Caligula. John Jr. had the wardrobe & haircut for the job, unfortunately not really anyone home when you rang the doorbell despite all the bright lights shining from the windows.

Its important to understand the history of this league & its practices franchise by franchise, decade by decade in order to understand how one winds up where we are, today. I dont know how you mess up franchises' in a Detroit or Chicago (unless your partners are Jim Beam, Jack Daniels & Johnny Walker), but left to their own devices in both cases it was a very near thing. Phoenix, in my opinion. has been treated to same. Reprobate Ownership. Does a Leopard change its Spots?.

Oh, I know the history of all of that...I've been a student of the game since before I can even remember...but the difference between places like Detroit and Chicago and Phoenix is that there has been proven support in those other markets. Other than sporadic sellout strings when the bandwagon is full, Phoenix has never proven that it can be a self-sufficient NHL market...

 

[MaskedSonja]

MotorCity was experiencing a downturn combined with the vagaries of years of alcoholic ownership in one Bruce Norris. Ran it into the ground. Party Central. The teams Council, from the late 50's & into the 60's was John Ziegler, who of course went on to become "El Presidente'" (in name only of course) of the NHL due to the fact that he very likely had compromising photographs of any number of the then current BOG's. Caligula. John Jr. had the wardrobe & haircut for the job, unfortunately not really anyone home when you rang the doorbell despite all the bright lights shining from the windows.

Its important to understand the history of this league & its practices franchise by franchise, decade by decade in order to understand how one winds up where we are, today. I dont know how you mess up franchises' in a Detroit or Chicago (unless your partners are Jim Beam, Jack Daniels & Johnny Walker), but left to their own devices in both cases it was a very near thing. Phoenix, in my opinion. has been treated to same. Reprobate Ownership. Does a Leopard change its Spots?.

Ever thought about teaching NHL franchise history as a college course there Killion-I'm amazed and impressed by your knowledge-kudos!

I came in to see if there was anything new to report-guess not yet eh. Hopefully "November Gales come early" bring us some news of the Yotes MOU, AMULA, DOA, ABC123, BMF....

 

[Wham City]

LeBlanc and Jones in Ottawa tonight, talking with Coyotes FSAZ reporter Todd Walsh about Hulsizer, where deal is:

http://filesocial.eu.s3.amazonaws.c...145116&Signature=NYrsupK/wrTVyi2PJRjMRYqwlM8=

The more these two clowns talk up Hulsizer the more I'm convinced he won't close the deal.

Are they supposed to be his hype men or something?

 

[Killion]

Phoenix has never proven that it can be a self-sufficient NHL market...

It was never given a chance AT. Look, I have small hands & was told I should become a surgeon or an artist at a young age. Problem; my maths & sciences sucked. I made it as an artist. Is that unfulfilled potential or just dealing with the cards your dealt?. The NHL callously dealt Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus et al cards from the bottom of the deck. And it goes back for decades.

 

[ATHF]

It was never given a chance AT. Look, I have small hands & was told I should become a surgeon or an artist at a young age. Problem; my maths & sciences sucked. I made it as an artist. Is that unfulfilled potential or just dealing with the cards your dealt?. The NHL callously dealt Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus et al cards from the bottom of the deck. And it goes back for decades.

All I hear is that they've never been given a chance. They've been there for fifteen years and lost money every single year. How many more chances do you need to figure out that the market is not a hockey market in this day and age? What's that old saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

 

[OthmarAmmann]

The more these two clowns talk up Hulsizer the more I'm convinced he won't close the deal.

Are they supposed to be his hype men or something?

I'm dubious. This didn't come from twitter.....

 

[Killion]

All I hear is that they've never been given a chance. They've been there for fifteen years and lost money every single year. How many more chances do you need to figure out that the market is not a hockey market in this day and age? What's that old saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Insanity of course. The problem does not lie with Phoenix, that little biscuit deserves to be dropped on the NHL's doorstep on 6th & lit on fire. The only way to improve your bloodstock, a winning record, is through stud fee's or luck. I prefer science. These idiots have playing "Pin the Tail on Eyeore'" for generations & keep on getting away with it. Take a good look at the trail of broken promises in Arizona & elsewhere before you pull the trigger.

 

[Killion]

I came in to see if there was anything new to report. Guess not yet eh?. Hopefully "November Gales come early" bring us some news of the Yotes ....

As in "The wind & the water played a tattletale song"?. Listing still. Im thinking the NHL sent out Canada's Chinook Helicopters, 60yrs out of date, stalled against headwinds if not sunk in the drink. NHL Search & Rescue. Classic. "Can ya hang onto a shoal out their or the sliver of a toothpick still floating?"...Over n'out. C'mon back at me jim jammerooney?. Hello?. Ya their?..........

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I guess my post about Daryl Jones' latest tweets got deleted.

When even we no longer care what he has to say, it's a good sign that he's worn out his welcome

 

[peter sullivan]

The more these two clowns talk up Hulsizer the more I'm convinced he won't close the deal.

Are they supposed to be his hype men or something?

were they not still supposedly involved in this deal as partial owners or something?.....they seem pretty removed from any insider information if that is the case....do you think these guys are just running one really long practical joke on whoever will listen?

their comments dont seem to have the same, 'verbal agreements reached, closure in 6 weeks', tone that the announcements from glendale and the NHL released last week....its all back to 'discussions' and 'showing progress' again....

seriously wake me when this is over.

 

[Bruinbear]

Ice edge interview in Ottawa pretty much proves they officially know nothing and the deal isnt as far as its been made out to be. They still dont have a deal with the City.

 

[kombayn]

Well it's starting to seem really bleak going into the month of November. The City of Glendale just can't get a good deal to turn a sell of the Coyotes. At this point I have to say that the Coyotes will be relocating after this season. The City of Glendale just needs to turn over operation of Jobing.com Arena to AEG, so they can help Glendale in getting concerts/events like they do for the Sprint Center.

 

[TheLegend]

Fair enough. Obviously a successful team = newsworthy story/something people want to read. Everyone understands this. I think it's the same even in traditional markets -- your team starts winning, you see a lot more space devoted to that team in the local paper.

However, a struggling team with a very real chance of being relocated is also a very newsworthy story. In fact, it's even more newsworthy than a winning team, because this particular story goes beyond just the sports page. There are economic repercussions to the local residents whether the team stays or goes. It's a front-page story, and it's not being given prominence. Why not?

I realize there's an election going on, so that's presumably (although based on the apparent apathy in the region, maybe not) taking over all of the headlines, but even so, the lack of media interest in the team is baffling.

What's so baffling about the lack of media when there hasn't a peep has come out of the negotiations in weeks... other than the recent announcement of the verbal agreements?

What are they supposed to do? Run a bunch of articles that rehash the same info everyone's had for months?

Other than maybe the WFP whipping up the "Hockey Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jets" campaign, and Shoalt's latest spear job that missed, I haven't seen all that much attention paid to the Yote's business aspect from the Canadian media either.

Rebekkah Sanders ran her piece in the Republic not long ago that covered the entire situation regarding Glendale's dream of a sports entertainment district.

What more is there for them to write about?

 

[TheLegend]

Sounds wise to me.

OK, so how do they turn back the clock now?. Their well down the road to basing their master plans' on a sports/entertainment district, up to their necks in fact. Platitudes are just great, sound wonderful, talk is cheap. Is it wise to just blow it all up whereby the harm in doing so supercedes' that of the team leaving?. Or alternatively, is it better to just cut your losses, let it go?. The constituents have some hard choices to make.

It always sounds wise when you haven't got any skin in the game.

 

[Whileee]

What more is there for them to write about?

Progress on negotiating a CFD with Westgate business owners? One would assume that if negotiations are progressing towards a final lease agreement that the businesses that are to be participants in the CFD might have been consulted by now.

Status of the $25 million in escrow? There is an upcoming election and at least one of the candidates (Goulet) maintained that Glendale would by no means expend that money for losses, but that it would be recouped through the franchise sale. Just before an election is an excellent time to check back on these things.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Well it's starting to seem really bleak going into the month of November. The City of Glendale just can't get a good deal to turn a sell of the Coyotes. At this point I have to say that the Coyotes will be relocating after this season. The City of Glendale just needs to turn over operation of Jobing.com Arena to AEG, so they can help Glendale in getting concerts/events like they do for the Sprint Center.

I don't think it's bleak. It's not uncommon for radio silence while everything gets lined up. Bringing AEG in and ditching hockey would probably be the best solution for the Glendale taxpayers (although they do seem rather apathetic)

 

[RR]

Progress on negotiating a CFD with Westgate business owners? One would assume that if negotiations are progressing towards a final lease agreement that the businesses that are to be participants in the CFD might have been consulted by now.

Status of the $25 million in escrow? There is an upcoming election and at least one of the candidates (Goulet) maintained that Glendale would by no means expend that money for losses, but that it would be recouped through the franchise sale. Just before an election is an excellent time to check back on these things.

All topics surely discussed in Executive Session virtually every other week. That means outside of public view, discussion and direction only. When action is required, all will be revealed. (That sounds creepy, mystical. Sorry, but you get the point...I hope ).

I don't think it's bleak. It's not uncommon for radio silence while everything gets lined up. Bringing AEG in and ditching hockey would probably be the best solution for the Glendale taxpayers (although they do seem rather apathetic)

Believe this has been covered ad nauseum: Live Nation has US Airways Arena, AEG has Jobing. Cricket Theatre (20,000 seat, outdoor concert venue) and Dodge Theatre (more intimate, ~4,000 seating I believe), all compete for events large and small. That does not include other venues of 1,000 - 10,000 seating in the Valley.

Please drop the idea that hockey can easily be replaced by 41 other events. It cannot, and will not, ever happen. There is too much competition here.



Why Glendale fighting so hard to keep its major tenant.

 

[King Woodballs]

65 days where is that MOU Hulsizer?

 

[armpit]

What more is there to write in the papers?

Really?

It's called investigative journalism. Grab a notebook and pen and get some dirt, get some details. Such apathy! Seriously, there is a lot more to this then some rich guy buying a team at whim. Speculation abounds about CFD's, taxpayers money, etc. There is volumes of information that (dare I say) in a Canadian city would be revealed or at least dug after.

The papers and media in Arizona should be addressing all sides of this issue, good and bad. Report on the progress...report on the lack of progress...follow the hot sticky trail of money for pete's (sullivan) sake!

 

[Fidel Astro]

What's so baffling about the lack of media when there hasn't a peep has come out of the negotiations in weeks... other than the recent announcement of the verbal agreements?

What are they supposed to do? Run a bunch of articles that rehash the same info everyone's had for months?

Other than maybe the WFP whipping up the "Hockey Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jets" campaign, and Shoalt's latest spear job that missed, I haven't seen all that much attention paid to the Yote's business aspect from the Canadian media either.

Rebekkah Sanders ran her piece in the Republic not long ago that covered the entire situation regarding Glendale's dream of a sports entertainment district.

What more is there for them to write about?

Oh, come on. I'm talking about this entire ordeal over the past year and a bit. At this point everyone is well aware that the media outside of Arizona has covered every angle of this story extensively, far more in-depth that anyone in AZ.

I've been to AZ-based news sites at various times throughout this ownership thing to see if reporters on-site had any additional info that wasn't being covered in Canadian papers, and the only Coyotes stories I found were buried, usually given less prominence than high school sports. That's ridiculous.

With an election underway, shouldn't reporters be talking to the candidates about the Coyotes issue? It has the potential, whatever happens, to affect a huge number of Glendale voters. Where's the coverage?

Also, I wouldn't be so confident that Shoalts' "spear job" actually "missed." While I think the guy is kind of juvenile (just like every other grown adult who uses Twitter), his story might still end up being correct. The deal has not gone through yet.

 

[Fidel Astro]

It's called investigative journalism. Grab a notebook and pen and get some dirt, get some details. Such apathy! Seriously, there is a lot more to this then some rich guy buying a team at whim. Speculation abounds about CFD's, taxpayers money, etc. There is volumes of information that (dare I say) in a Canadian city would be revealed or at least dug after.

The papers and media in Arizona should be addressing all sides of this issue, good and bad. Report on the progress...report on the lack of progress...follow the hot sticky trail of money for pete's (sullivan) sake!

Exactly.

You can't just do a story suggesting the deal might be finalized in November and just leave it at that. You don't just wait for another press release from the NHL to show up and write your follow-up based on that. There are a ton of unanswered questions that Arizona reporters could be digging into. They could even provide some info, in layman's terms, about why more time is still required to finish this thing. I'm sure the average reader is not involved in multi-million dollar business dealings. Explain how this works, what needs to be done, and how it will get done.

Hell, the Winnipeg Sun did an in-depth article the other day on the MTS Centre's suites, how and why costs would increase if the NHL came back, whether current suite-holders would be willing to pay for suites that were triple AHL prices (yes, it turns out, they would), etc. etc.

...and this is the Sun, a paper not exactly known for doing much other than smearing political candidates, having photos of half-naked girls, and giving way too much space to the local CFL team.

The point is that there are all kinds of interesting angles and off-shoots from the basic "Hulsizer is trying to buy the team" story, and all of these angles need to be covered to give readers in that area (and elsewhere) an accurate picture of what's going on. Especially when there's an election around the corner and the CoG councillors are making what some people might consider to be bad decisions in their ongoing attempts to save the Coyotes.

 

[ATHF]

Clearly the COG knows that they're doing something that will either A.) piss off their constituents royally....or B.) require liberal bending of the law....

They are waiting until the very last second to put anything on paper (if anything even makes it to the stage of being put on paper) because they know that the second anything is written down, it's open to challenges and available to be perused by anyone who wishes to see it. Are we to believe that in all of this time in negotiations with three parties interested in buying the team, going all the way back to the bankruptcy ruling, there's only a handful of documents?

Hardly.

If the issues are SO complex that they need to be discussed for months and months and months, how would anyone keep anything straight without at least taking some notes or writing something down. They know that this thing stinks to high heaven and they're trying to keep up the shell game and have everything be out of sight and (hopefully) out of mind for as long as possible. It's worked up to this point but the people of the COG, the people on the BOG and the higher-ups in the NHL won't put up with it forever and the deadline is closing in. People are going to start wanting answers soon and I'm still not convinced that Hulsizer will be the guy to give those answers...