Part 5: True North Sports & Entertainment's efforts to acquire an NHL team (Winnip

[LeftCoast]

My impression of Edmonton is that folks there are swimming in surplus $100-a-barrel-of-oil cash.

Is there something similar in Winnipeg? Y'all feeling flush?

(Honest question, not trolling)

There's lots of money in Winnipeg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Mint#Winnipeg_facility

They practically print the stuff there.

 

[crazed323]

Manitoba is in the sustainable energy business. Not the when this black stuff becomes to costly to produce or stops coming out of the ground or becomes obsolete business were ____ out of luck.

No Manitoba hasn't struck it rich yet. We will though, just wait and see.

From the line of thought that the Coyotes will strike it rich just wait and see.

 

[BrianSTC]

Virtually no oil in Manitoba produced only $838 million sales in 2008.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/stem/petroleum/oilfacts/index.html

 

[Crazy_Ike]

New building, New team, 15 years laters I think the NHL in Winnipeg will do just fine. Regardless of the canadian dollar.

The only two teams in Canada that can afford to ignore the Canadian dollar are Toronto and Montreal. Even Vancouver feels the bite. The three small ones go into financial lockdown (necessities only) until it gets better. Winnipeg would be no different.

Luckily for Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Calgary, and Ottawa...) there doesn't seem to be any indication the dollar will drop anytime soon. Of course, trying to predict markets even five years ahead... might as well ask the magic eight ball.

 

[Stej]

Not sure why the Winnipeg folks keep clamoring to prove the naysayers wrong. It was an uphill battle to even get people to acknowledge that Winnipeg getting another team was a possibility (and still some don't think it's possible). It was an uphill battle to get to the top of the relocation list (and still some don't think we are). It will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team short-term. And it will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team long-term.

No matter what happens in the coming days, weeks, months, or years, the naysayers will always be there. You are fighting a never-ending battle. Who cares. The people that matter most are not on hfboards cutting down Winnipeg.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Virtually no oil in Manitoba produced only $838 million sales in 2008.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/stem/petroleum/oilfacts/index.html

Congrats, that is about equal to three days production in Alberta.

$838m is nothing in that industry. Manitoba is a nonentity in Canadian oil production.

 

[crazed323]

The only two teams in Canada that can afford to ignore the Canadian dollar are Toronto and Montreal. Even Vancouver feels the bite. The three small ones go into financial lockdown (necessities only) until it gets better. Winnipeg would be no different.

Luckily for Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Calgary, and Ottawa...) there doesn't seem to be any indication the dollar will drop anytime soon. Of course, trying to predict markets even five years ahead... might as well ask the magic eight ball.

Soon players will demand to be paid Canadian Dollars, and the great american dollar will be the bridesmaid. Especially with the new plastic money were coming out with.

 

[cbcwpg]

People keep wanting to bring up attendance during the last year the Jets were in Winnipeg and look at the numbers and say how low it was. Yes it was low ( 11,316 average ), but if you are going to compare this attendance to any other team, at least compare apples to apples.

Before the last season in Winnipeg started, everyone new the team was leaving. So an entire season in Winnipeg was spent knowing it was over. What I would like to see is what would the attendance be in places like Phoenix, Florida, NYI, Columbus, Atlanta if those teams had to play an entire season knowing for a fact the team is gone, not just "For Sale" rumours. IMO I doubt any of them would come close to 11,316.

 

[Jet]

Not sure why the Winnipeg folks keep clamoring to prove the naysayers wrong. It was an uphill battle to even get people to acknowledge that Winnipeg getting another team was a possibility (and still some don't think it's possible). It was an uphill battle to get to the top of the relocation list (and still some don't think we are). It will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team short-term. And it will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team long-term.

No matter what happens in the coming days, weeks, months, or years, the naysayers will always be there. You are fighting a never-ending battle. Who cares. The people that matter most are not on hfboards cutting down Winnipeg.

That is an excellent post and I am going to definitely try to take it to heart. There are lots of opinions around here, problem is, many aren't supported by facts. Even if you do manage to convince everyone hockey in Winnipeg has a legit shot, a hundred new naysayers will pop up to start it all over again. Best to just believe what you believe and if *when! we get our shot, prove them wrong.

 

[Retail1LO*]

The only two teams in Canada that can afford to ignore the Canadian dollar are Toronto and Montreal. Even Vancouver feels the bite. The three small ones go into financial lockdown (necessities only) until it gets better. Winnipeg would be no different.

Luckily for Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Calgary, and Ottawa...) there doesn't seem to be any indication the dollar will drop anytime soon. Of course, trying to predict markets even five years ahead... might as well ask the magic eight ball.

I know even Thomson isn't immune to feeling the impact of a weak Canadian dollar if/when such a thing comes about...but I'd think the most well-heeled owner in professional sports would probably be able to maintain a higher payroll better than most if he was so inclined to do so.

 

[BrianSTC]

Congrats, that is about equal to three days production in Alberta.

$838m is nothing in that industry. Manitoba is a nonentity in Canadian oil production.

Well if you care to write off an 832 million dollar-a-year industry (and increasing) as a nonentity, so be it.

Of course, that equals to about a third of what all 30 nhl teams pulled in last year.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Well if you care to write off an 832 million dollar-a-year industry (and increasing) as a nonentity, so be it.

I write it off because it's less than 1% of what Canada produces. Reserves in Manitoba are insignificant. Again, Manitoba is a non-factor in Canadian oil and gas production.

Winnipeg may have lots of money, but it's not from oil and gas.

Of course, that equals to about a third of what all 30 nhl teams pulled in last year.

Oil industry is bigger than professional hockey industry, news at 11.

 

[Jet]

Oil industry is bigger than professional hockey industry, news at 11.

Haha that was funny

It's good to laugh around here every once in a while... we are all so damned serious.

 

[tradeyoumooseforjets]

If anybody wants to watch our team play, you can do it here. This team will be in Wpg next year no question about it at this point. I'm a fan again, going to watch them the rest of the year and get aquainted with my new team.

http://atdhenet.tv/35616/watch-phoenix-coyotes-vs-anaheim-ducks

 

[Puckschmuck*]

I write it off because it's less than 1% of what Canada produces. Reserves in Manitoba are insignificant. Again, Manitoba is a non-factor in Canadian oil and gas production.

Winnipeg may have lots of money, but it's not from oil and gas.



Oil industry is bigger than professional hockey industry, news at 11.

Granted at this point, it isn't much. But it's growing exponentially, and future indications point to a increase in Manitoba's contributions to the oil and gas sector, including a larger reserve in southern Manitoba as well as natural gas reserves up in the Hudson Bay lowlands. Also, there are indications of significant potash reserves in the southwest corner of the province as well. This is on top of the hydro electricity, mineral, metals and other natural resources that abound in the province.

No, we may never be Alberta in terms of oil wealth, but to write our future potential off completely is very short-sighted, IMO.

Anyways, let's get back to hockey!

 

[Jet]

If anybody wants to watch our team play, you can do it here. This team will be in Wpg next year no question about it at this point. I'm a fan again, going to watch them the rest of the year and get aquainted with my new team.

http://atdhenet.tv/35616/watch-phoenix-coyotes-vs-anaheim-ducks

Well I love your enthusiasm, but I wouldn't call it a done deal yet. I am rooting against the Coyotes for the rest of the season, as I don't see any announcement before the Yotes are finished for the year. The Coyotes not making the playoffs would be the best news for 'relocationists' (sorry Coyotes fans)

 

[BrianSTC]

I write it off because it's less than 1% of what Canada produces. Reserves in Manitoba are insignificant. Again, Manitoba is a non-factor in Canadian oil and gas production.

Winnipeg may have lots of money, but it's not from oil and gas.



Oil industry is bigger than professional hockey industry, news at 11.

Alberta has the second biggest oil reserves in the world. If you compare most places with Alberta, then of course Alberta will dwarf those places in terms of production.

However, an industry that produces $832 million per year IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT. That ranks in the top 20 industries of Manitoba!

We are not comparing oil producing countries here. The issue was industry in Manitoba of which oil companies are a big part.

Claiming an $832 million dollar industry is insignificant is JUST PLAIN SILLY! So please stop!

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Not sure why the Winnipeg folks keep clamoring to prove the naysayers wrong. It was an uphill battle to even get people to acknowledge that Winnipeg getting another team was a possibility (and still some don't think it's possible). It was an uphill battle to get to the top of the relocation list (and still some don't think we are). It will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team short-term. And it will be an uphill battle to prove that we can support a team long-term.

No matter what happens in the coming days, weeks, months, or years, the naysayers will always be there. You are fighting a never-ending battle. Who cares. The people that matter most are not on hfboards cutting down Winnipeg.

Very well said.

GHOST

 

[GSC2k2*]

you have no proof of this.

THe power of mathematics provides evidence of my assertion, Peter.

~$23B divided by 3 = $7.7 B

Anschutz reported net worth by Forbes, last time I checked = ~$8B.

Plenty of cake indeed, more than enough to buy several teams, but you asked ...

 

[Fugu]

THe power of mathematics provides evidence of my assertion, Peter.

~$23B divided by 3 = $7.7 B

Anschutz reported net worth by Forbes, last time I checked = ~$8B.

Plenty of cake indeed, more than enough to buy several teams, but you asked ...

You are assuming that the estate was divided equally. That may or may not be true. I personally don't know.

But yeah, he can buy a team and an arena.

 

[crazed323]

THe power of mathematics provides evidence of my assertion, Peter.

~$23B divided by 3 = $7.7 B

Anschutz reported net worth by Forbes, last time I checked = ~$8B.

Plenty of cake indeed, more than enough to buy several teams, but you asked ...

I may be out of the loop on this one, but why would forbes fudge the list of wealthiest people.

 

[crazed323]

You are assuming that the estate was divided equally. That may or may not be true. I personally don't know.

But yeah, he can buy a team and an arena.

He need not purchase the arena. Only the team.

 

[Fugu]

The only two teams in Canada that can afford to ignore the Canadian dollar are Toronto and Montreal. Even Vancouver feels the bite. The three small ones go into financial lockdown (necessities only) until it gets better. Winnipeg would be no different.

Luckily for Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Calgary, and Ottawa...) there doesn't seem to be any indication the dollar will drop anytime soon. Of course, trying to predict markets even five years ahead... might as well ask the magic eight ball.

Actually, lucky for Winnipeg, there's a revenue transfer program in place now--- which has more bite than the old currency equalization plan. Surprised you'd forget about that detail.

He need not purchase the arena. Only the team.

Oh, I'm just pointing out that he could if he were so inclined.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

The only two teams in Canada that can afford to ignore the Canadian dollar are Toronto and Montreal. Even Vancouver feels the bite. The three small ones go into financial lockdown (necessities only) until it gets better. Winnipeg would be no different.

Luckily for Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Calgary, and Ottawa...) there doesn't seem to be any indication the dollar will drop anytime soon. Of course, trying to predict markets even five years ahead... might as well ask the magic eight ball.

The revenue sharing provisions of the current CBA act as a built in currency hedge to a certain extent. Also, I would not be surprised if future CBA's contain further mechanisms to control for currency fluctuations. This makes sense since the players receive a percentage of revenues denominated in USDs. The opportunity is there if the BOG want to do it. It could be win-win for everyone.

Congrats, that is about equal to three days production in Alberta.

$838m is nothing in that industry. Manitoba is a nonentity in Canadian oil production.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a massive amount of oil in the Bakkin Formation which is located in parts of Manitoba, and to a greater extent northern North Dakota and south eastern Saskatchewan. Until recently it was very difficult to drill for that oil but technological advances in horizontal drilling are making it more accessible. It is very high grade. A few Winnipeg companies are very involved in developing this resource and Manitoba oil production has increased dramatically in the last decade. It'll never be on the scale of Alberta -- at least in Manitoba -- but every little bit helps.

GHOST

 

[roccerfeller]

I'm not going to get into any detailed arguments here, but if an NHL team comes back to Winnipeg, many people are going to be shocked at the business model that will be in place.

What I have heard from the development community, this is not something they are investing short term for. It is a long term investment. Very long term. And there are things that TNSE is doing to ensure this will work long term. No "sugar daddies" needed..

And not only that, but it will generate much more than people assume it will. Going based off the "standard" business model regarding how teams operate and produce revenue is really blurring ideas here.

Regardless of Oake's numbers, even if they were a ballpark number, there are many things he did not factor in, that will play a big role in additional revenues. Its going to surprise people.

Really, that's all i'm going to say - take it or leave it, but don't be late to the party. I'm going to suggest their revenue model will be the envy of the league - especially if everything I've seen or heard comes to fruition. Others on this board I'm sure can also confirm this, completely separately of anything I know of.