Proposal: Parayko to the Leafs.

[Colt55]

do you value Sandin higher than a late 1st rounder at this point though? That's all I'm saying, drop the Blais+2nd, add a 1st from the Leafs side then the Blues still get as good of value (better because you keep Blais+2nd) and the Leafs keep a guy who has a chance to be ready to play on an ELC when they'll need him where I doubt that matters as much to the Blues

Keep in mind that Sandin is a 29th oa pick who's played 13 games since his draft, he's at least 2 years away from contributing. I don't see how any reasonable person values him way higher than the Leafs upcoming 1st round pick which is in a notably deep draft and could end up being considerably better than 30-31st oa, that would be assuming we're going to the cup finals and there's some very good teams in the east

He is valued higher than the pick because he does have upside and is holding his own in the AHL. He would be ready before any pick in this draft. If you didnt value him then why do you hesitate in adding him when you could use the pick to grab a better prospect.

 

[Ciao]

These threads are so much more enjoyable since I've started using the "ignore" feature.

It filters out a lot of the needlessly aggressive and idiotic posts.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

These threads are so much more enjoyable since I've started using the "ignore" feature.

It filters out a lot of the needlessly aggressive and idiotic posts.

I just want to filter out Parayko to the Leafs/Parayko to the Oilers threads all together lol!

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yes at this point i do Value Sandin and Liljgren higher than a 31st pick do to time frame of dmen prospects being ready. With the addition of parayko you can use your first to get one of the best dmen in this draft and he could be ready in 2 years or so when you need elcs. Blues if giving up parayko would need the dmen to be closer to stepping in then developing a recently drafted one.

like i said blues needs are goalie and defense. Blais and our 2nd or third (which if it was second would be 32-36. which isnt far off from where your picking. I still stand firm the only trades that help blues are as follows. The adds from the blues could change slightly.

Nylander liljgren
for
parayko 2nd

or

Kapp, Liljgren Sandin

Parayko Blais/walman 2nd

Kapanen+Liljegren+Sandin for Parayko+Blais+2nd is a worse return than Kapanen+Liljegren+1st for Parayko for the Blues, I think you're just fixating on the Leafs not wanting to give up Sandin as a sign that he's super valuable. He's shown that he could be a little ahead of schedule, and that part is important to the Leafs, but I don't think any sane person thinks that he's worth Blais+high 2nd+late 1st (by virtue of you getting an additional late 1st in the deal that Sandin isn't included in). I don't think I would want the Leafs to pass up on Parayko to keep Sandin, but making a more valuable offer that lets us keep someone who could help sooner probably makes sense for both sides

Alternatively, if you guys need goaltending, I'd make an offer like:

Kapanen+Liljegren+Woll/Ian Scott for Parayko - Woll and Scott are still a ways away, but they're probably both knocking on the door of being top 10 goalie prospects at this point, both having terrific seasons in junior with good tools and size

He is valued higher than the pick because he does have upside and is holding his own in the AHL. He would be ready before any pick in this draft. If you didnt value him then why do you hesitate in adding him when you could use the pick to grab a better prospect.

Jack Hughes absolutely plays in the NHL before Sandin, that's not really debatable from today's standpoint. Not sure if you meant "any pick" or "any pick in the range the Leafs' might fall in"

The timing of Sandin being ready is the most important to teams who are in open compete windows with cap problems, ie. The Leafs. I fully expect that we could get a prospect with all of the upside and close to as safe as Sandin (who isn't thought of as having a huge ceiling, btw) with our pick this year, but Sandin is probably ready a year before the guy that we would take which is very important to the Leafs. St. Louis should be looking for max value in futures rather than caring about timing of them being ready, unless you see yourselves jumping right back into contention next year and beyond

 

[Commander Clueless]

Yes at this point i do Value Sandin and Liljgren higher than a 31st pick do to time frame of dmen prospects being ready. With the addition of parayko you can use your first to get one of the best dmen in this draft and he could be ready in 2 years or so when you need elcs. Blues if giving up parayko would need the dmen to be closer to stepping in then developing a recently drafted one.

like i said blues needs are goalie and defense. Blais and our 2nd or third (which if it was second would be 32-36. which isnt far off from where your picking. I still stand firm the only trades that help blues are as follows. The adds from the blues could change slightly.

Nylander liljgren
for
parayko 2nd

or

Kapp, Liljgren Sandin

Parayko Blais/walman 2nd

I think Nylander is off the table if you believe Dubas, but I'd do the second one.

Like Randy, I'd try to convince you to drop Sandin and the adds from the Blues with maybe a pick of ours going back your way, but if you insisted, I'd still do it (probably for Walman then).

It's a high price in futures, but it'd fill a big hole for the Leafs.

 

[TML1967]

We're do you get fell out if favor with coach. He just put up 28 toi, he normally gets 23. Yes he doesn't put up 50 60 pts. But he actually plays defense. You can try to degrade his worth all you want. But he is worth every penny he gets paid. Blues are not trading him.nuff said

Sorry, I used the blues blog (St. Louis Blues 2017-18 Final Report Card: Colton Parayko) and what was happening to start the year, have not seen him lately.

I never said he was a bad player, far from it. I'm just suggesting he has moved from a 'potential huge steal' contract more towards a 'paid his worth' co tract.

 

[Colt55]

Kapanen+Liljegren+Sandin for Parayko+Blais+2nd is a worse return than Kapanen+Liljegren+1st for Parayko for the Blues, I think you're just fixating on the Leafs not wanting to give up Sandin as a sign that he's super valuable. He's shown that he could be a little ahead of schedule, and that part is important to the Leafs, but I don't think any sane person thinks that he's worth Blais+high 2nd+late 1st (by virtue of you getting an additional late 1st in the deal that Sandin isn't included in). I don't think I would want the Leafs to pass up on Parayko to keep Sandin, but making a more valuable offer that lets us keep someone who could help sooner probably makes sense for both sides

Alternatively, if you guys need goaltending, I'd make an offer like:

Kapanen+Liljegren+Woll/Ian Scott for Parayko - Woll and Scott are still a ways away, but they're probably both knocking on the door of being top 10 goalie prospects at this point, both having terrific seasons in junior with good tools and size



Jack Hughes absolutely plays in the NHL before Sandin, that's not really debatable from today's standpoint. Not sure if you meant "any pick" or "any pick in the range the Leafs' might fall in"

The timing of Sandin being ready is the most important to teams who are in open compete windows with cap problems, ie. The Leafs. I fully expect that we could get a prospect with all of the upside and close to as safe as Sandin (who isn't thought of as having a huge ceiling, btw) with our pick this year, but Sandin is probably ready a year before the guy that we would take which is very important to the Leafs. St. Louis should be looking for max value in futures rather than caring about timing of them being ready, unless you see yourselves jumping right back into contention next year and beyond

I did mean by the time you get to 30-31 pick. They estimate that the top top5 maybe top 10 are nhl ready. I think thats a generous assessment

 

[Colt55]

I think Nylander is off the table if you believe Dubas, but I'd do the second one.

Like Randy, I'd try to convince you to drop Sandin and the adds from the Blues with maybe a pick of ours going back your way, but if you insisted, I'd still do it (probably for Walman then).

It's a high price in futures, but it'd fill a big hole for the Leafs.

I like sandin and he is LHD, I know liljgren is the better of the two and could be ready for 3rhd duties next year. we have edmondson and Dunn on the left so if sandin could come in and round out the 3rhd and grow then that would be worth it. I do not hold kappen very highly. I fear he is a product of his team. He was on absolute fire early in the year and has cooled down a bit. Like the kid.

 

[1865]

Thats actually how trade don't work. It is so rare for trades to be actually be 1:1 most of the time it's a lot of quantity going for quality. Outside of Hall:Larsson and Jones:Johansen most aren't done that way, it's only on hfboards where people force that idea.

Yes, but you actually still have to give up something if genuine quality. You don’t get a 10 by trading ten 1’s.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I did mean by the time you get to 30-31 pick. They estimate that the top top5 maybe top 10 are nhl ready. I think thats a generous assessment

fair enough, and I agree that Sandin is a little more NHL ready than the player you're likely to get with Leafs pick (although if you had Sandin vs. the field of players available with that pick for which produces an NHL regular first, you'd take the field by a long shot). But I don't think that should matter to St. Louis, going from being a bottom 5 team to contention is typically not a 2 year ordeal. If I was making this decision from the perspective of the '13-'14 Leafs, I would take the best package of futures and not worry about when they're ready

 

[TK 421]

fair enough, and I agree that Sandin is a little more NHL ready than the player you're likely to get with Leafs pick (although if you had Sandin vs. the field of players available with that pick for which produces an NHL regular first, you'd take the field by a long shot). But I don't think that should matter to St. Louis, going from being a bottom 5 team to contention is typically not a 2 year ordeal. If I was making this decision from the perspective of the '13-'14 Leafs, I would take the best package of futures and not worry about when they're ready

I would love it if the Blues finished bottom 5 but it just isn't that likely. This roster isn't bad enough to stay where they're at and will most likely end up 6-11. After getting a new coaching staff and making a couple moves they could be right back in contention next year so this isn't a typical long term rebuild situation like you're describing.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I would love it if the Blues finished bottom 5 but it just isn't that likely. This roster isn't bad enough to stay where they're at and will most likely end up 6-11. After getting a new coaching staff and making a couple moves they could be right back in contention next year so this isn't a typical long term rebuild situation like you're describing.

I guess maybe this is predicated on the Blues figuring out what situation they're in. Keep in mind though, that proposal gives back 2 assets other than Sandin that are likely to make an impact in the next couple of years, Kapanen's already a full time NHL'er that has produced when given the opportunity and plays both wings as well as PP and PK, and Liljegren's ahead of Sandin development wise

 

[TK 421]

I guess maybe this is predicated on the Blues figuring out what situation they're in. Keep in mind though, that proposal gives back 2 assets other than Sandin that are likely to make an impact in the next couple of years, Kapanen's already a full time NHL'er that has produced when given the opportunity and plays both wings as well as PP and PK, and Liljegren's ahead of Sandin development wise

Yeah as far as quantity packages go I think the Leafs have some nice parts especially with Lilj in the mix. The problem is that teams simply don't trade D of Parayko's caliber without there being extenuating circumstances none of which are present here. Trading Parayko anytime soon would be a mistake as the Blues are simply not going to rebuild.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yeah as far as quantity packages go I think the Leafs have some nice parts especially with Lilj in the mix. The problem is that teams simply don't trade D of Parayko's caliber without there being extenuating circumstances none of which are present here. Trading Parayko anytime soon would be a mistake as the Blues are simply not going to rebuild.

Ya this would be also based on Parayko being available, if he's not then fair enough. I think the Leafs can afford to wait for Liljegen too, but I'd be willing to include him for someone who solidifies our D corps long term because that's what we're hoping he'll do. I do think guys on Parayko's level get dealt sometimes without there being a gun to the team's head, the deal has to make sense for both sides but Dougie Hamilton's been dealt twice for example and neither time was there a known pressure on the team to make it happen

anyway, if Liljegren & Kapanen are really good until the deadline and St. Louis's fortunes don't change by then, maybe there's something to talk about