Confirmed with Link: Panthers and Canucks trade- Mod Warning post 87

[Mr. Make-Believe]

1), was said more likely tops out as a 3rd line player, where he could already play at 19y, and has been said he has been able to add weight and is about 195lbs right now which would lead to believe he can be a true 3rd liner next year, weight/strenght was his issue this year.
I'd like to think Pasta is not going to be a 3rd liner next year.

2) the question was closest comparable, not who's the exact McCann prospect.




3) What does that even mean?
Haven't seen you ask a question outside that late edit of writer.

Again you replied to my Seny post 1st.

1) That's not what was said. Two ears, one mouth.

2) I answered the question in its entirety.

3) You don't know what that means?? I guess (again) I can't help ya buddy.
I responded to a post of yours where you replied with a condescending attitude toward another poster (whose opinion I happen to share) with something he wasn't even talking about and that wasn't at ALL relevant. You could have brought up Rick Tabaracci and brought just as much to the discussion.

One more time for the cheap seats: Zach Senyshyn and Jared McCann are two ENTIRELY different prospects, with entirely different skillsets, entirely different ceilings and entirely different floors. Zach Senyshyn is no more relevant to an assessment of Jared McCann's upside than how you felt about "Family Matters."

 

[Fossy21]

I love Gudbranson and I think he is a must have for living in the West.

Look at the size of the Ducks/Sharks/Kings forward groups --he is a must have. I would have done this deal as well if I'm Benning.

Seems overrated physically from what I've seen in matchups with the Bruins. Embellished several times in just a few matchups, and agitated without standing up for himself much (probably smart when playing the Bruins since it leads to PP's if anyone does anything back, to the magnitude of sneezing). Might be a decent fighter (though he usually has 2-5 inches, probably 3 on average, on his opponents according to hockeyfights), but didn't show much of that in the rest of his game (and doesn't fight a great deal anyway - but who does nowadays? ).

More on topic, as much as I don't like the Canucks or Gudbranson, I'll still have to hope they win the trade because I can't stand Florida.

 

[reffree]

Gudbranson is not good. He might have the tools to be a Top 4 defenseman, but he doesn't play like one.

To be fair I'm not a fan of Gudbransson, because he's not what the Bruins need now, but he's playing 20+ minutes per night on a playoff team and he's young. 24 yo defensman are imho "younger" than 24yo foward. Allready a 20+ min guy with room for improvement because defense ...

If our team was full of Krug, Morrow, C. Miller, Grezlyck, Vatanen, etc. I would want a Gudbransson like player, but since our defense is full of Chara, Seidenberg, McQuaid, K. Miller ... I don't want ...

 

[reffree]

McDavid is generational, Strome/Marner/ whatever are one of the best prospects in the game.

You can't value Senyshyn that highly then, he's a max 3rd liner then.

I don't, but like Mr. said it has nothing to do with McCann upside.

We all like to think our prospect or prospect in general will be great, but that's just not the case. Tons of player produce in juniors. Of those, probably only one out of five will have an impact at the pro level. While 80ish pts in 50ish game is good, it's not enough too distance yourself from the mass.

I'll just get you the exemple of the 2008 draft, taking good OHLer with good stat who where first rounder and all hype at that time ...

#1 Stamkos ... ok good one !!
#8 Boedker 73pts in 62 games in draft year, NHL in draft +1 ...45-50 pts okish 2nd liner, great 3rd.
#9 Bailey 96pts in 67 games in draft year, NHL draft+1 ... 40 pts good 3rd liner
#10 Hudgson 85pts in 68 games draft year, 92 in 53 draft+1, Not an NHLer anymore
#25 Nemisz 77 pts in 65 games in draft +1 ... oups

Others than Stamkos none were able to became high impact offensive player. I consider Boedker and Bailey as really valuable piece on a team. They saw they would not be impact offensive player and adapt the rest of their game. Hodgson who was probably the best offensively (outside Stamkos) is no more an NHLer because is impact offensively is not enough to compensate for his sub par game.

Every draft is like that in every league ... Tons of highly skill junior player who fail to have the same kind of impact in the NHL. Some adjust and become those "2nd/3rd lin two way player" other just fail to adjust. The NHL is full of highly productive junior player, only the best of the best of the best can be impact offensive player in the big league.

 

[EvergladesBruin]

Seems overrated physically from what I've seen in matchups with the Bruins. Embellished several times in just a few matchups, and agitated without standing up for himself much (probably smart when playing the Bruins since it leads to PP's if anyone does anything back, to the magnitude of sneezing). Might be a decent fighter (though he usually has 2-5 inches, probably 3 on average, on his opponents according to hockeyfights), but didn't show much of that in the rest of his game (and doesn't fight a great deal anyway - but who does nowadays? ).

More on topic, as much as I don't like the Canucks or Gudbranson, I'll still have to hope they win the trade because I can't stand Florida.

Gudbranson was the heart and soul of Florida's physical game this year.

 

[KnightofBoston]

I don't think this is as bad for Vancouver as people are making it out to be.

Gudbranson is a 24 year old, RIGHT handed, top pair defenseman who just led FLA in playoff TOI at nearly 27 minutes a game. That's a quality asset.

I wanted Gudbranson 2 seasons ago when he was 6th at best and being scratched every so often, knew there was more there. Would have far preferred PC traded for him over connolly after he got rid of Boychuk.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

The better of the stay at home guys are hard to get only so many around who are good enough to go up against top players. Gave up a nice youngster for a D man the right age.


Glad we locked up our version for 2.5 per.

 

[Sheppy]

Gudbranson is not good. He might have the tools to be a Top 4 defenseman, but he doesn't play like one.

Gudbranson is a solid defenseman. To say he's not good is actually kind of dumb.

 

[BruinDust]

Gudbranson is a solid defenseman. To say he's not good is actually kind of dumb.

Kinda depends on your definition of "solid" and "good".

 

[BB88]

1) That's not what was said. Two ears, one mouth.

2) I answered the question in its entirety.

3) You don't know what that means?? I guess (again) I can't help ya buddy.
I responded to a post of yours where you replied with a condescending attitude toward another poster (whose opinion I happen to share) with something he wasn't even talking about and that wasn't at ALL relevant. You could have brought up Rick Tabaracci and brought just as much to the discussion.

One more time for the cheap seats: Zach Senyshyn and Jared McCann are two ENTIRELY different prospects, with entirely different skillsets, entirely different ceilings and entirely different floors. Zach Senyshyn is no more relevant to an assessment of Jared McCann's upside than how you felt about "Family Matters."

I guess you don't know that all the posters aren't from NA here, that's very nice from you.

You really didn't answer to my question for some time, and all I did with reffs was challenge his thoughts, I thought that's what we do here.

And once more Seny and McCann can be compared if you want to think of comparable asset from the Bruins, after all Sweeney wants to do what Vancouver did.

 

[Fossy21]

Gudbranson was the heart and soul of Florida's physical game this year.

Doesn't tell me much.

 

[Gee Wally]

The subject is this trade.

Not Shenyshen.

Get back to the trade.

Beyond that and it will be viewed as thread hijacking.

 

[Over the volcano]

No way fla trades him inside the division for the same package- would need a HUGE overpayment to get it done. No thanks

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I don't, but like Mr. said it has nothing to do with McCann upside.

We all like to think our prospect or prospect in general will be great, but that's just not the case. Tons of player produce in juniors. Of those, probably only one out of five will have an impact at the pro level. While 80ish pts in 50ish game is good, it's not enough too distance yourself from the mass.

I'll just get you the exemple of the 2008 draft, taking good OHLer with good stat who where first rounder and all hype at that time ...

#1 Stamkos ... ok good one !!
#8 Boedker 73pts in 62 games in draft year, NHL in draft +1 ...45-50 pts okish 2nd liner, great 3rd.
#9 Bailey 96pts in 67 games in draft year, NHL draft+1 ... 40 pts good 3rd liner
#10 Hudgson 85pts in 68 games draft year, 92 in 53 draft+1, Not an NHLer anymore
#25 Nemisz 77 pts in 65 games in draft +1 ... oups

Others than Stamkos none were able to became high impact offensive player. I consider Boedker and Bailey as really valuable piece on a team. They saw they would not be impact offensive player and adapt the rest of their game. Hodgson who was probably the best offensively (outside Stamkos) is no more an NHLer because is impact offensively is not enough to compensate for his sub par game.

Every draft is like that in every league ... Tons of highly skill junior player who fail to have the same kind of impact in the NHL. Some adjust and become those "2nd/3rd lin two way player" other just fail to adjust. The NHL is full of highly productive junior player, only the best of the best of the best can be impact offensive player in the big league.

on a prospect board its normal for posters to fall in love with prospects... and offense is attactive... but you are exactly correct.

in general guys who get drafted top 5 usually have enough total package to pan out... thats why they are drafted top 5. after that the success rate of guys being top 2 line players drops to below 50-50.

of course you can still find superstars outside the top 5. in any given year there could be as many as 20 first line players drafted in the next 100 picks so id say you have around a 1 in 5 odds of getting an impact player outside the top 5.

there are some teams that might have 3 or 4 impact players outside the top 5. we have krejci and bergeron and marchand... and we had lucic and hamilton so our drafting was wayyyyyy above average. but there are many teams that like 1 or 0 guys in the past 10 years making any sort of impact at all outside the top 5 picks.

when you study each roster and study the results of drafts... you see this time and again.

and you see unhearlded prospects play in the nhl when highly prized first rounders are gone after 2-3 failed seasons. it happens on every single team.

you still need the draft... but the draft is a crapshoot that can only margainly be improved by superior scouting and system development.

even detroit who do it better than anyone is showing us that the averages catch up eventually.

now a question can still be raised whether grubanson is worth this much return when boychuk fetched less... but considering what reinhart got i suppose this has become the going rate for second pairing physical dmen in todays nhl?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I'd say this is

Seny+San Jose 1st more like.


Florida also thinks McCann will play C for them and Bjugstad would go to Rw.
That raises his value.

OHL the year before, 56 games for McCann, 34 goals+ 47 assists= 81 points.
This year 18 points in 68 NHL games, he should have though spend the year in the AHL apparently, was too weak for full NHL season.
So I'd guess this had more value for Panthers than Seny+ San Jose 1st would have.

Impossible.

It was Juniors or NHL.

 

[Gator Mike]

Gudbranson is a solid defenseman. To say he's not good is actually kind of dumb.

When he's on the ice, the Panthers tend to be outshot and outscored by larger margins than when he's not on the ice.

He's moderately effective at preventing goals, but he's been very poor at preventing shots. His possession metrics are pretty poor. He's an OK defensive player who's effectiveness is limited by the fact that he has to spend so much time playing defense.

Basically, he's what a lot of people around here think Kevan Miller is, only they believe Gudbranson still has upside based on his size and his draft status. I think he's 24 with 300+ NHL games under his belt, and he's unlikely to ever get significantly better than what he is right now.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

When he's on the ice, the Panthers tend to be outshot and outscored by larger margins than when he's not on the ice.

He's moderately effective at preventing goals, but he's been very poor at preventing shots. His possession metrics are pretty poor. He's an OK defensive player who's effectiveness is limited by the fact that he has to spend so much time playing defense.

Basically, he's what a lot of people around here think Kevan Miller is, only they believe Gudbranson still has upside based on his size and his draft status. I think he's 24 with 300+ NHL games under his belt, and he's unlikely to ever get significantly better than what he is right now.

Don't get fooled by that shiny new toy called "advanced metrics".

I call it the "Emperor New Clothes" syndrome.

 

[Fossy21]

He's moderately effective at preventing goals, but he's been very poor at preventing shots.

And the Panthers had castle in the air-mode Toronto-like PDO numbers, so not preventing shots but still preventing goals won't last for either Gudbranson or the Panthers (they may get better at producing and winning games despite more normal PDO numbers the coming seasons if they start getting better possession numbers, but that remains to be seen - trading away Gudbrandson probably didn't hurt much if what you say is true, and what I've seen from him corroborates with that).