Panarin VS Kucherov

[Kshahdoo]

People vote for putin? Like I just thought he does what he wants. Voting in Russia seems like it would be absolutely pointless.

Honestly, Putin does what he wants mostly because people support him, not sure why it's here, though...

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

I don't really think so. My theory on this is superstars don't get much of a benefit from a change in scenery, because their production is determined by their talent. Unless they're dragging around complete knuckle dragging plugs (which Panarin is not doing), their production is what it is.

We always assume that, but the examples we have seen of superstars in or close to their prime moving to "better" situations hasn't really shown that. Tavares didn't become a 100 point player in Toronto. Joe Thornton was doing what he was doing in Boston and San Jose - no real change there.

Panarin is a puck dominant player so I just don't see what benefit he derives from playing in Tampa versus NY. And Kucherov doesn't really benefit from having a good second and third (and frankly - fourth) line - he's getting the same tough matchups Panarin gets.

Also for a recent example of playing on Tampa not being the point jamboree is JT Miller who gets a complete massive bump playing in Vancouver over Tampa.

I find its usually the other way, star players who play on weak teams are relied upon more, and therefore receive more ice time and quality ice time (PP time) which I think influences points more than the quality of teammates. Althought quality of teammates is obviously beneficial when added to both scenarios.

 

[Fataldogg]

I find its usually the other way, star players who play on weak teams are relied upon more, and therefore receive more ice time and quality ice time (PP time) which I think influences points more than the quality of teammates. Althought quality of teammates is obviously beneficial when added to both scenarios.

I mean, wouldn't you rather have 20-minutes with Point, than 23-minutes with Strome?

I don't know how much I buy that argument.

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

I mean, wouldn't you rather have 20-minutes with Point, than 23-minutes with Strome?

I don't know how much I buy that argument.

Oh yeah for sure. Still, agree to disagree but I feel time on ice is more of factor in point totals than swapping a Strome with Point (one for one) when the teammates remain the same.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Voted kucherov but there’s a very very good chance I change my mind next year when the rangers are a top 3 east team and panarin is again in hart convo

 

[Future GOAT]

Kucherov is quite skilled and has also enjoyed the benefit of playing on an allstar team and racking up a lot of secondaries for a really nice outlier season, he was however bested by Point in last years playoff cup run. I'm more impressed with Panarin as a player and I feel he is the better of the two. He's been good everywhere, even on bad teams. My vote goes to him.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

The answer right now is Panarin. Maybe Kucherov will regain his Hart winning form and re-establish himself as better than Panarin. But right now, while Kucherov is out for the season, Panarin is at 120 point pace. Panarin's pace both of the past two seasons is higher than Kucherov's in any season except his Hart season in 2018-19. Kucherov still has the higher peak, but until he's back Panarin has to get the benefit of the doubt for being clearly better over the last two years.

 

[bobholly39]

Kucherov is quite skilled and has also enjoyed the benefit of playing on an allstar team and racking up a lot of secondaries for a really nice outlier season, he was however bested by Point in last years playoff cup run. I'm more impressed with Panarin as a player and I feel he is the better of the two. He's been good everywhere, even on bad teams. My vote goes to him.

With Kucherov peaking, Point hit 92 points 2 years ago.
Without Kucherov - Point is on pace for ~69 points over 82 games this year.

You can probably say Point > Kucherov in playoffs last year, but I think that's more a testament to Point raising his game and playing incredible, than him being a better overall player than Kucherov. Similar to how Drai may have had the better season last year, but no one will say he's better than McDavid. Kucherov still had more points in playoffs.

As for Panarin - it's true he's been good everywhere, but he hasn't been great nor elite everywhere. He's only hit that elite level of production for the first time last season. And now - he's doing it again this season. Kucherov has been better for a lot longer.

I say this is still easily Kucherov, because you have to give him his due for 128 points, sweeping awards, and leading playoffs in scoring last year. But he's not playing this year - so if you want to give credit to Panarin whose playing now and looking great, that's fine. I just wouldn't use Point as a negative for Kucherov, as it's the other way around, especially for offense.

 

[bobholly39]

The answer right now is Panarin. Maybe Kucherov will regain his Hart winning form and re-establish himself as better than Panarin. But right now, while Kucherov is out for the season, Panarin is at 120 point pace. Panarin's pace both of the past two seasons is higher than Kucherov's in any season except his Hart season in 2018-19. Kucherov still has the higher peak, but until he's back Panarin has to get the benefit of the doubt for being clearly better over the last two years.

What you're saying may be factually right - but another statement I could make would be:

Kucherov has been better in every single season, and every single playoffs head to head against Panarin his whole career (minus that 4 game playoff sweep) - except for a the month of December in the 2019-2020 season, where Panarin scored 22 points in 14 games, and Kuch had 13 points in 14 games. At the end of that season - Panarin had 10 more points than Kucherov in 1 more game played. It's all tied to that one month of extra production, in December of the season.

I'm not saying we shouldn't count December - but outside of that:

Kucherov outscored Panarin from January 1st on last season
Kucherov outscored and outplayed Panarin in the playoffs in 2020 (led playoffs in scoring)
He's not playing this year, so can't do a head to head comparison
Panarin was pretty good in Columbus in 2018-2019, but Kuch had 128 points and swept the awards
Kucherov was also better in the 2 seasons prior

I think you give Kucherov the benefit of the doubt here - that upon his return he will continue to produce at an equal or above level than Panarin as he has his whole career.

 

[authentic]

This might be one of the closest comparisons, best LW and RW in the game but the above post I think sums it up. Although I do admit Panarin is very clearly the more entertaining player to watch for me, and wouldn't be surprised if he was better from here on out but we'll see over the next year or so what level Kucherov will play at.

 

[geoo9]

Lads have completely different game picture.
Panarin always looked like a guy who have pants full of joy from playing in an important game. When more important the game, and the more pressure Then Panarin looks just really excited to play.
He is small guy who have superman inside him by his mental side.
Kucherov at other hand - all about IQ. Every shift every move he thinks faster and better than 99% players and goalies. All actions are to deceive goalies aтв opponents.
For example Kucherov mades only onetimers when goalie have a clear view of him with puck but He never shots wrister when goalies watching him. He always hide shot behind players and he even hides his head movements and eyes didnt watching towards goalie when shooting wrister - goalie always watches players head and eyes if they didn see the puck. Didnt ever saw a player who have a game so much relied on his IQ. It is awesome for him and his team, He will get slower during time but IQ as stat didn decreasing when he will get older

 

[Doubty]

Why is this even a question?? Lol

 

[Maple Leaf]

Add Tarasenko into the mix

 

[ViD]

Panarin was a PPG player in Columbus which equals to 120 points on any other team, but Kucherov did score 128.

 

[reino]

Kucherov easily

 

[Hockeyholic]

Add Tarasenko into the mix

Tarasenko is a few tiers below these two players.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Kucherov easily

Wouldn't say easily.

Breadman doesn't play with stars on his line.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Panarin, but my biggest problem with him has been that he’s invisible in the biggest games this first two years with the Rangers. I don’t buy into the argument that skill wingers can’t succeed in the most important games, but he needs to play with more intensity in these games.

 

[Ignite111]

Panarin, but my biggest problem with him has been that he’s invisible in the biggest games this first two years with the Rangers. I don’t buy into the argument that skill wingers can’t succeed in the most important games, but he needs to play with more intensity in these games.

So why exactly is he better? Because he had 10 more points while playing one more game in the 2019-2020 regular season? The same season where Panarin had 2 points in 3 playoff games where his team was swept? The season where Kucherov led all scoring in the playoffs with 34 points and came away with Stanley Cup ring?

Call me crazy but playing well in big games is important. Being “invisible” compared to being great and dominant in big games as I would say is very very important when comparing players. I think you may need to watch some of the Kucherov this playoffs. He is amazing. What he does in the playoffs should make up for 10 regular season points he sacrificed to Panarin.

 

[Foppberg]

Bread boy.

 

[User9992]

When Panarin wins Ted Lindsay, Hart, Art Ross & leads the Playoffs in Points multiple times having the most in Playoffs Points since entering the league then we have conversation.

Until then Kuch AINEC.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Panarin is less dependent on his linemates and is a better play driver, so I'd probably favor him. I think Kucherov is a bit better with time and space in the offensive zone, but he pretty much doesn't touch the puck on the defensive side of the red line, which works really well when you've got two excellent line mates in Point and Palat.

 

[Beyonder91]

Kucherov is better at pretty much everything

Pretty cool/surpising stat: Since his first full season in the league (2014-15) Kucherov is 3rd in the NHL in plus minus at +125

 

[God King Fudge]

It's Kucherov and no amount of mental gymnastics makes that not the case.

 

[Ignite111]

If Kucherov was on the rangers this poll would have been shut down already for a lopsided result. Would be Kucherov in a blowout.