Traded Pageau to the Islanders (1st 2020, 2nd 2020, 3rd 2022*)

[FormentonTheFuture]

I'm sure Dorion is pissed and throwing stuff at his TV watching the Flyers play.

Now how are we going to move up from 28th? I wanted to sacrifice only one 2nd round pick

Screw moving up. Use the pick in an actual hockey trade

 

[Xspyrit]

They likely dont move at all now the picks value isnt much more than a 2nd any longer.

Yeah but that's my point, there could be a guy "much higher on Sens list" available at #16-18... With the 21st OA pick, it would have been "easy" to move up... but now that we'll have the 28th, it complicate things and makes it less likely

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yeah but that's my point, there could be a guy "much higher on Sens list" available at #16-18... With the 21st OA pick, it would have been "easy" to move up... but now that we'll have the 28th, it complicate things and makes it less likely

We still have three 2nd round picks. At this point, I'm definitely ok moving 2 or even all 3 if we can get another pick in the top 14 or so. It sucks to see the Isles pick drop....but it came at the perfect time. It would be silly for us to try and use all those 2nd rounders and beyond this year...need to get some quality for that quantity this year.

 

[Crosside]

We still have three 2nd round picks. At this point, I'm definitely ok moving 2 or even all 3 if we can get another pick in the top 14 or so. It sucks to see the Isles pick drop....but it came at the perfect time. It would be silly for us to try and use all those 2nd rounders and beyond this year...need to get some quality for that quantity this year.

I think it s 4 second round , no

 

[bert]

Yeah but that's my point, there could be a guy "much higher on Sens list" available at #16-18... With the 21st OA pick, it would have been "easy" to move up... but now that we'll have the 28th, it complicate things and makes it less likely

I am agreeing, before when it was 21 they had a chance to move up now they dont.

 

[Micklebot]

I am agreeing, before when it was 21 they had a chance to move up now they dont.

Assuming the flyers don't miraculously come back, this is a big lose wrt our pick. There was a chance at 22 we could have seen someone in our top 16 slide, pr we could have traded up, not so much anymore. I think we can still get a good prospect at 28 to 31, but it's going to be a lot harder to hit that homerun.

 

[Spartachat]

I want Pageau back now. I am not so excited about this trade anymore.

 

[jhutter]

I want Pageau back now. I am not so excited about this trade anymore.

It was a strong return, but I wasn't happy with it at the time and I'm not happy now. A home grown, youngish, strong leader, proven playoff performer? Is there another team in the NHL that wouldn't have re-signed him? I honestly don't think so.

 

[TheDebater]

I want Pageau back now. I am not so excited about this trade anymore.

And that is the paradox with this trade.

If Pageau does not get traded, he never goes to the Islanders and never plays this well, so we do not see it happen because that timeline does not exist.

If he is not traded and then next season he goes back to his average (let us remember we always knew he elevated his game in the playoffs but in the regular season he has been a 30-40 point player) and does not improve on the previous season, that would raise questions for sure.

Depending on the contract extension we had given him by not trading him, we end up questioning whether or not we should have moved on, especially if rumours come out that the Islanders had offered a 1st and 2nd round pick for him.

Flash back to the present and we are witnessing him play his heart out, in an opportunity that may never have happened if the trade was not made, therefore we cannot simply say "oh the trade is bad now" based on something we already knew: Pageau is a playoff warrior.

 

[Xspyrit]

Screw moving up. Use the pick in an actual hockey trade

Agreed if the right deal comes along. I also wouldn't mind using a 2nd to move up still if a guy we really like is still available earlier in the 20's

We still have three 2nd round picks. At this point, I'm definitely ok moving 2 or even all 3 if we can get another pick in the top 14 or so. It sucks to see the Isles pick drop....but it came at the perfect time. It would be silly for us to try and use all those 2nd rounders and beyond this year...need to get some quality for that quantity this year.

We have 4 second round picks, but no, I wouldn't use 2 or 3 of these picks to move up. We can still get very good prospects in that 2nd round or even hit an homerun.

I want Pageau back now. I am not so excited about this trade anymore.

The return was still very good. It's the same thing as like when we traded all our best players, we got "maximum value" (well maybe not each time) because we traded them in their prime. That's why it sucks to see them do well elsewhere because we know that under different ownership with deeper pockets, they'd have surrounded them better (goaltending, coaching staff, team defense, depht...) and we'd be watching our guys on a run for the Cup instead.

We are rich now in terms of future assets. I believe we will develop a lot of talent in the next few years, but at some point it's going to be a "show me the money" situation all over again

 

[bert]

Screw moving up. Use the pick in an actual hockey trade

Dorions speciality... Id rather he just stick to drafting.

 

[bert]

And that is the paradox with this trade.

If Pageau does not get traded, he never goes to the Islanders and never plays this well, so we do not see it happen because that timeline does not exist.

If he is not traded and then next season he goes back to his average (let us remember we always knew he elevated his game in the playoffs but in the regular season he has been a 30-40 point player) and does not improve on the previous season, that would raise questions for sure.

Depending on the contract extension we had given him by not trading him, we end up questioning whether or not we should have moved on, especially if rumours come out that the Islanders had offered a 1st and 2nd round pick for him.

Flash back to the present and we are witnessing him play his heart out, in an opportunity that may never have happened if the trade was not made, therefore we cannot simply say "oh the trade is bad now" based on something we already knew: Pageau is a playoff warrior.

He was playing well before the Islanders trade. This isnt a hindsight thing he just needed opportunity and ice time he always elevated in the playoffs. Now that both picks are at the end of each round its a bad deal. The concept they could use the capital to get a high end player was great now the capital isnt worth nearly as much. It is what it is, and at the end of the day doesnt really matter until there is new ownership anyway it just kinda stinks. I am happy for him he is having success and this might be the last hockey we get to see for a while so now that it doesnt really matter i hope they go all the way.

 

[jhutter]

He was playing well before the Islanders trade. This isnt a hindsight thing he just needed opportunity and ice time he always elevated in the playoffs. Now that both picks are at the end of each round its a bad deal. The concept they could use the capital to get a high end player was great now the capital isnt worth nearly as much. It is what it is, and at the end of the day doesnt really matter until there is new ownership anyway it just kinda stinks. I am happy for him he is having success and this might be the last hockey we get to see for a while so now that it doesnt really matter i hope they go all the way.

I'm not sure I'd say it's a bad deal, but it's a deal that shouldn't have been done. I know that a lot of people on here and Twitter think that virtually all of our prospects are going to hit, but let's be honest, they're not all going to. Do we realistically have three forwards in the pipeline that will be as good or better than Pageau? Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Formenton are certainly possibilities, but Norris and Batherson are the only two that I'd put money on to be better hockey players than Pageau. Even then, those two aren't guarantees. And I'm strictly talking about skill and points production, not leadership and proven playoff performance.

I think Dorion got a nice haul, but I hated the idea of trading Pageau at the time and I hate it now. Don't let the draft picks fool you, it was another case of a money out deal with a beloved player.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I'm not sure I'd say it's a bad deal, but it's a deal that shouldn't have been done. I know that a lot of people on here and Twitter think that virtually all of our prospects are going to hit, but let's be honest, they're not all going to. Do we realistically have three forwards in the pipeline that will be as good or better than Pageau? Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Formenton are certainly possibilities, but Norris and Batherson are the only two that I'd put money on to be better hockey players than Pageau. Even then, those two aren't guarantees. And I'm strictly talking about skill and points production, not leadership and proven playoff performance.

I think Dorion got a nice haul, but I hated the idea of trading Pageau at the time and I hate it now. Don't let the draft picks fool you, it was another case of a money out deal with a beloved player.

In my opinion, 100%, and that's not including the 3rd and 5th overall pick. I respect your opinion though.

 

[armani]

Pageau being Pageau is single handedly winning this trade for Senile Lou. Really appreciate the guy for the memorable moments he provided while growing up in the Sens system. The way he was playing this year, I really expected this type of playoffs for Pageau.

I believe he has just hit his stride and will be very good for the Isles for the next little while. The pick will fall where it will, there will still be good players available and a few ranked prospects who will drop out of top 20 - I see the 4th tier as Top 13-40. Perhaps Ottawa can still draft a Hendrix Lappierre or Barron type if they drop, or a Peterka or Reichel if we are lucky.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Pageau being Pageau is single handedly winning this trade for Senile Lou. Really appreciate the guy for the memorable moments he provided while growing up in the Sens system. The way he was playing this year, I really expected this type of playoffs for Pageau.

I believe he has just hit his stride and will be very good for the Isles for the next little while. The pick will fall where it will, there will still be good players available and a few ranked prospects who will drop out of top 20 - I see the 4th tier as Top 13-40. Perhaps Ottawa can still draft a Hendrix Lappierre or Barron type if they drop, or a Peterka or Reichel if we are lucky.

Lapierre would be the perfect pick for this spot if he falls there.

 

[GCK]

He was playing well before the Islanders trade. This isnt a hindsight thing he just needed opportunity and ice time he always elevated in the playoffs. Now that both picks are at the end of each round its a bad deal. The concept they could use the capital to get a high end player was great now the capital isnt worth nearly as much. It is what it is, and at the end of the day doesnt really matter until there is new ownership anyway it just kinda stinks. I am happy for him he is having success and this might be the last hockey we get to see for a while so now that it doesnt really matter i hope they go all the way.

You may be right but I still feel this is an outlier year statistically for Pageau. Either way I’m happy he got paid and playing well.

 

[jhutter]

In my opinion, 100%, and that's not including the 3rd and 5th overall pick. I respect your opinion though.

For sure, the 3rd and 5th pick (assuming they're both forwards) will change things, but I don't see three of the four I mentioned holistically being more valuable than Pageau.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think Dorion got a nice haul, but I hated the idea of trading Pageau at the time and I hate it now. Don't let the draft picks fool you, it was another case of a money out deal with a beloved player.

Not just Pageau I imagine? It started with Zibanejad, then Hoffman, then Karlsson, then Duchene, then Dzingel, then Stone, then Ceci, then Pageau. None of these were hockey trades outside of Zibanejad who was for getting a veteran for contending and Ceci who was a hockey trade.

Sens went in firesale mode and (Melnyk) wanted a few cheap years so we went full rebuild mode.

Trading Pageau was just the continuation of trading all the expensive proven talent.

 

[TheDebater]

Not just Pageau I imagine? It started with Zibanejad, then Hoffman, then Karlsson, then Duchene, then Dzingel, then Stone, then Ceci, then Pageau. None of these were hockey trades outside of Zibanejad who was for getting a veteran for contending and Ceci who was a hockey trade.

Sens went in firesale mode and (Melnyk) wanted a few cheap years so we went full rebuild mode.

Trading Pageau was just the continuation of trading all the expensive proven talent.

I realize that is an easy label to make, but I actually believe that the Pageau trade was the only sincere one and financially related, and if it was, it directly correlates with what Dorion thought he would be worth to a rebuilding team.

And the reality is, we are now a rebuilding team through and through with almost every player from past teams now gone. Melnyk was willing to spend big bucks on White then Chabot, I do not think that 5 million or so a year for Pageau was going to stop him. I just think that at his age, they probably realized that this team would not be ready to compete until his new contract comes to an end again.

 

[jhutter]

Not just Pageau I imagine? It started with Zibanejad, then Hoffman, then Karlsson, then Duchene, then Dzingel, then Stone, then Ceci, then Pageau. None of these were hockey trades outside of Zibanejad who was for getting a veteran for contending and Ceci who was a hockey trade.

Sens went in firesale mode and (Melnyk) wanted a few cheap years so we went full rebuild mode.

Trading Pageau was just the continuation of trading all the expensive proven talent.

Maybe I was unclear. I'm definitely in agreement with what you're saying.

Hell, I wouldn't even say that the Zibby trade was a hockey trade. The Sens included a second in order to avoid a bonus. I can't say I've ever heard of that happening before (feel free to correct me if this isn't unusual). The Hoffman trade, in my opinion, was a money deal masked as a team-building deal.

This team has made me so cynical.

 

[swiftwin]

Why on earth would we have kept Pageau?

That's like keeping a thoroughbred race horse to work on a farm instead of selling him for a nice sum to someone who will race him at the Kentucky Derby.

 

[thinkwild]

Jean Goring Pageau, continues an old Isles story of a great deadline day pick up of an unheralded role player. Sucks as it did to trade him, if going through a complete teardown and overhaul for whatever reason, it was the situational response.

 

[MattyW]

Jean Goring Pageau, continues an old Isles story of a great deadline day pick up of an unheralded role player. Sucks as it did to trade him, if going through a complete teardown and overhaul for whatever reason, it was the situational response.

I wouldn't call Butch Goring an unheralded role player; he was a consistent 30+ goal, 70+point player in his prime for several years.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We must honour Pageau by trading up both picks we got for him for a top 6 forward, or selecting one with either pick.