P.K Subban and Drew Doughty league worst turnover ratio

[TT1]

Care to show some of these stats?

Subban: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 (compare his numbers to the other Dmen on our roster)

Karlsson: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 (relatively close to all the other Dmen on Ott's roster)

 

[NyQuil]

Just proves what we already know.

Some guys in certain markets get a free pass when it comes to evaluating their defence.

 

[Knave]

This is where we'll see what non sens fans who were calling Karlsson a turnover machine have to say

It's all about perception. Karlsson gets no credit for defensive play, Subban gets way too much credit for his subpar defense.

The Habs defence isn't 6 names - it's one, Carey Price.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Subban: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 (compare his numbers to the other Dmen on our roster)

Karlsson: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 (relatively close to all the other Dmen on Ott's roster)

So it appear you were over exaggerating? or at least being misleading?

 

[TT1]

Just proves what we already know.

Some guys in certain markets get a free pass when it comes to evaluating their defence.

....... what? might wanna have a look at their advanced stats, theres more to defense than just 1 stat.

 

[TT1]

So it appear you were over exaggerating? or at least being misleading?

by saying hes 100x better? Yes.
is he still crushing Karlsson? Yes.

its even more lopsided when you compare their numbers to the other Dmen on their roster (which is as important as the stats themselves)

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Possessing the puck more only pertains to give aways.

How much the Senators rely on Karlsson to skate the puck up the ice has absolutely nothing to do with takeaways. Karlsson is 2nd in the league in Turnovers, so using the "he has the puck more but has less then half the turnovers/takeway ratio" to show he's more reliable with the puck makes no sense.

Ya that was my bad. He's slightly better then P.K per 60 but he still turnovers the puck alot. It would appear he's more adept at stealing the puck though. Regaining possession for his team.

 

[Davebo*]

This thread is about Subban and Doughty, but I get the feeling from the direction the OP is taking it it's really about one player....

 

[hersky77]

I didnt know they had stats for players who played in the super nhl.

 

[TT1]

Ya that was my bad. He's slightly better then P.K per 60 but he still turnovers the puck alot. It would appear he's more adept at stealing the puck though. Regaining possession for his team.

it would appear that you made an extremely big mistake by creating this thread, statistically (and visually if you watch both players play) theres nothing that suggests that Karlsson is remotely close to Subban defensively, all the stats are in front of you.

have fun digging through 100 more irrelevant stats now until you find something that Karlsson is better at.

 

[rumrokh]

Good forwards are the ones who tend to have more takeaways than giveaways. Defensemen, especially puck-movers, almost always have more giveaways no matter how good they are. Even if you assume stat-keeping is perfect (not even close), as a straight-up stat, it's not meaningful. In context of other things, it might be, but the general answer is that it's a red herring. Turnovers happen when guys gain control of the puck and begin the effort to leave the zone and then on transition, both events disproportionately engineered by skilled defensemen. It's just the nature of the game.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I don't see why this is a thread? Do you honestly think people are just going to stop calling Karlsson bad defensively because you brought up some stats? You're fighting a lost cause, especially with Habs fans, as they're not just going to start to think that their rivals defenseman is better.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

it would appear that you made an extremely big mistake by creating this thread, statistically (and visually if you watch both players play) theres nothing that suggests that Karlsson is remotely close to Subban defensively, all the stats are in front of you.

have fun digging through 100 more irrelevant stats now until you find something that Karlsson is better at.

No mistake was made. I was looking up Wier's turnover plus minus and saw subban and dougthy were a league worst minus 50. I made no assertions. I asked what others think this means. If you want my opinion i would say Subban is reckless with the puck and tries to do to much or force things. This is based off what ive seen and the stats.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I don't see why this is a thread? Do you honestly think people are just going to stop calling Karlsson bad defensively because you brought up some stats? You're fighting a lost cause, especially with Habs fans, as they're not just going to start to think that their rivals defenseman is better.

I didnt make this thread with karlsson in mind. I made the thread and someone tried to say subban and doughty have so many turnovers because they play so much and are relied upon to lead the break outs. I brought up several other defensemen who play more then Subban and play the same role but are more responsible. I mistakenly listed karlsson as one. Karlsson is just as reckless but is more adept at stealing the puck.

 

[JayKing]

Karlsson just had to be mentionned

 

[TT1]

No mistake was made. I was looking up Wier's turnover plus minus and saw subban and dougthy were a league worst minus 50. I made no assertions. I asked what others think this means. If we want you want my opinion i would say Subban is reckless with the puck and tries to do to much or force things. This is based off what ive seen and the stats.

do you want me to make a thread about how Subban has way better advanced stats than Karlsson? you dont need to force feed people on how "good" Karlsson is defensively, let them formulate their own opinions by watching him play.

and you certainly dont need to attack other players in the process either, especially when theres nothing to support your argument of Karlsson being better than either Doughty or Subban (statistically speaking).

im 1000000000000% sure that the only reason you made this thread is because Subban beat Karlsson in a recent HF poll, honestly why do you care so much? let it go bro.

 

[JustAHabFan]

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-turnover-plus-minus/2014/

Both are minus 50 with the next player being minus 38. Does this mean anything at all? lol Relevant or irrelevant?

Subban ranks 8th worst in give away take away ratio per 60 of all players in the league.


As been mentioned NHL real time stats trackers can be bad but are they this bad that theyd give two of the best players in the league such a disadvantage? You'd think the stat trackers might even be biased in favor of the superstars.


Whats this say about karlsson who probably plays with the puck on his stick more then anyone yet he has less then half the turnover give away plus minus of subban per 60?

Very sad attempt to prop up Karlsson and bashing Subban. In an attempt to hide this agenda,he brought up Doughty in this thread. Everybody know that Doughty and Subban are better defensive defenseman than Karlsson. Why don't Sens fans just accept that Karlsson is elite as far as offense is concerned and he is just average as far as defense is concerned?

 

[Hope Of Glory]

Those 2-3 Sens fans HAD to come here to say that Karlsson is actually good defensively and that Subban actually isn't. Otherwise it wouldn't be a thread about Doughty and Subban I guess

 

[EDDIE20*]

Nice and all but when it comes playoff time, I'd take Doughty on my team immediately.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

do you want me to make a thread about how Subban has way better advanced stats than Karlsson? you dont need to force feed people on how "good" Karlsson is defensively, let them formulate their own opinions by watching him play.

and you certainly dont need to attack other players in the process either, especially when theres nothing to support your argument of Karlsson being better than either Doughty or Subban (statistically speaking).

I understand that you may think i made this thread with karlsson in mind but i didnt. I think it speaks to the defensiveness that some people can't comprdhend someone just pointing out interesting stats and asking what they mean to other people. I've actually said last year that i preferred subban to karlsson. You can make a thread about karlsson versus subban advanced stats wise but i think you'll largely be criticized by people pointing out karlsson plays more ES, subban's team is better/goalie, his d partner was gone for most the year, small sample size and the difference between their stats is very insignificant.


You can say i made this thread because of the karlsson v subban poll but its not why i made it. You can continue to think that ill continue to know you're wrong.

 

[Chfan]

Karlsson just had to be mentionned

It's literally the point of the thread.

 

[InfinityIggy]

As others have said unless you formulate it with TOI, it means nothing.

 

[Chfan]

I'd take Rielly before Karlsson

 

[hersky77]

I understand that you may think i made this thread with karlsson in mind but i didnt. I think it speaks to the defensiveness that some people can't comprdhend someone just pointing out interesting stats and asking what they mean to other people. I've actually said last year that i preferred subban to karlsson. You can make a thread about karlsson versus subban advanced stats wise but i think you'll largely be criticized by people pointing out karlsson plays more ES, his d partner was gone for most the year, small sample size and the difference between their stats is very insignificant.

So why even bring up Karl's name in your first post.

 

[Knave]

Nice and all but when it comes playoff time, I'd take Doughty on my team immediately.

Yeah. I can't think of anyone who steps up their game more than Doughty when it's crunch time.