Ovechkin vs Malkin: 2010/2011 - Present

[Yuri35]

I think Malkin was the most talented player of his generation, but I've started to realize that he's had a worse career than Crosby and Ovechkin. Injuries, effort, consistency matters.

injuries, ok
effort, perhaps
But consistency?? Lool we're talking about a guy who after 14 years in the NHL has the 15th best career ppg of all time and not playing in the 80's where it was goal fest

 

[Video Nasty]

One guy missed 176 games, the other missed 17 in 10 years (with some of them being a penalty for skipping an All-Star game).

I like Malkin better and I think he is the more impressive overall talent, but you can’t count on him to be out there.

He had the two best individual seasons between the two, 2011-2012 and 2017-2018, but in the other 8 seasons, he missed anywhere from
13-39 games. I just can’t vote for the player who is not available for his team to that degree.

The Penguins greatest strength has always been having Malkin and Crosby to roll with because they typically have bailed each other out.

Until this season, Crosby was remarkably healthy for 6 consecutive years...seasons where Malkin missed 22, 13, 25, 20, 14 and 4 games (and 14 again this season).

If the Pens did not have Crosby, and Malkin was missing all these games potentially leading to the Penguins not making the playoffs or being a really low seed, it’s obvious that Malkin would not be thought of as fondly during this stretch of time, rather than the wistful “if only he was healthy” Penguins motto.

Playing the games matters and as much grief as I give Ovechkin at times, it’s not like he has been a slouch during these 10 seasons.

 

[Regal]

injuries, ok
effort, perhaps
But consistency?? Lool we're talking about a guy who after 14 years in the NHL has the 15th best career ppg of all time and not playing in the 80's where it was goal fest

Malkin's PPG is fairly consistent year to year. His overall quality of play game to game throughout a season isn't that consistent for the level of player he is.

 

[wetcoast]

Malkin's PPG is fairly consistent year to year. His overall quality of play game to game throughout a season isn't that consistent for the level of player he is.

This is fair but it's hard to be that elite, ie one of the top 3 or 4 guys offensively for a 10 year stretch, very few players have done this and Ovechkin isn't one of them either.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

injuries, ok
effort, perhaps
But consistency?? Lool we're talking about a guy who after 14 years in the NHL has the 15th best career ppg of all time and not playing in the 80's where it was goal fest

I’m not talking about season to season. I’m talking shift to shift and game to game.

 

[Yuri35]

Malkin's PPG is fairly consistent year to year. His overall quality of play game to game throughout a season isn't that consistent for the level of player he is.

well, you were expecting him to be Mario Lemieux?
If he was consistent in your definition, he would simply be much better than Sid and Ovie......so that's Mario Lemieux's territory there.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

I’m not talking about season to season. I’m talking shift to shift and game to game.

You may wanna watch Ovechkin closer then. He makes Malkin look the hardest working man alive.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

One guy missed 176 games, the other missed 17 in 10 years (with some of them being a penalty for skipping an All-Star game).

I like Malkin better and I think he is the more impressive overall talent, but you can’t count on him to be out there.

He had the two best individual seasons between the two, 2011-2012 and 2017-2018, but in the other 8 seasons, he missed anywhere from
13-39 games. I just can’t vote for the player who is not available for his team to that degree.

The Penguins greatest strength has always been having Malkin and Crosby to roll with because they typically have bailed each other out.

Until this season, Crosby was remarkably healthy for 6 consecutive years...seasons where Malkin missed 22, 13, 25, 20, 14 and 4 games (and 14 again this season).

If the Pens did not have Crosby, and Malkin was missing all these games potentially leading to the Penguins not making the playoffs or being a really low seed, it’s obvious that Malkin would not be thought of as fondly during this stretch of time, rather than the wistful “if only he was healthy” Penguins motto.

Playing the games matters and as much grief as I give Ovechkin at times, it’s not like he has been a slouch during these 10 seasons.

Malkin's 11/12 is obviously the best season between them in this time period. There is no way his 17/18 was better than OV's 12/13 or 14/15.

 

[Brucelenok]

Malkin's 11/12 is obviously the best season between them in this time period. There is no way his 17/18 was better than OV's 12/13 or 14/15.

I am one of the biggest Ovy's fan on this board but sometimes people need to stop being hardcore homers... I love Ovy. But in no way shape or form he was better in 14/15 than Malkin in 17/18 despite being nominated for Hart. Let's be real here. Malkin was on the next level that season.

But answering this board question - this is Ovy despite Malkin having the best 2 seasons between the two. Health counts.

 

[KIRK]

Ovechkin has been injured too, it's just that he plays through it.

So Malkin doesn't play through injuries? Gets a hangnail and takes off a month? Well, thanks for the laugh.

 

[KIRK]

Pens got both Makin and Crosby; if Ovi had another Crosby/Malkin on his team; Ovi would have killed this league

If Malkin had the linemates Crosby (or Ovechkin) gets, he'd kill this league . . . like he does against the toughest matchups every time Crosby is out, this year included.

And if Ovechkin got the linemates and usage Malkin gets when Crosby is healthy?

See, this swings both ways . . .

As an aside, I'll take Malkin all things being equal, but anyone saying Ovechkin because of health or goal scoring at least is being honest about things.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I am one of the biggest Ovy's fan on this board but sometimes people need to stop being hardcore homers... I love Ovy. But in no way shape or form he was better in 14/15 than Malkin in 17/18 despite being nominated for Hart. Let's be real here. Malkin was on the next level that season.

But answering this board question - this is Ovy despite Malkin having the best 2 seasons between the two. Health counts.

OV: 1st in goals (10 ahead of 2nd), 4th in pts (6 behind 1st), 2nd in hart

Malkin: 4th in goals (7 behind 1st), 4th in pts (10 behind 1st), 7th in hart

OV also with 250+ hits. What is this fantasy "next level" Malkin was on? Malkin's season is clearly inferior to OV's 12/13 and 14/15.

 

[KIRK]

OV: 1st in goals (10 ahead of 2nd), 4th in pts (6 behind 1st), 2nd in hart

Malkin: 4th in goals (7 behind 1st), 4th in pts (10 behind 1st), 7th in hart

OV also with 250+ hits. What is this fantasy "next level" Malkin was on? Malkin's season is clearly inferior to OV's 12/13 and 14/15.

ON THE OTHER HAND . . .

Malkin's 11/12 is better than OV's 14/15 and OV's strike shortened 12/13, AINEC.

1.45 PPG versus 1.oo PPG and 1.17 PPG
1.00 ES PPG versus 0.58 ES PPG and 0.60 ES PPG
MORE GPG than OV's 14/15 and SAME GPG as OV's 12/12

There's also this . . .

0.95 PLAYOFF PPG during the decade versus 0.86 PLAYOFF PPG
0.56 PLAYOFF ES PPGversus 0.48 PLAYOFF ES PPG

OV does have more playoff goals, althought interestingly the playoff ES goals per 60 favors Malkin.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

ON THE OTHER HAND . . .

Malkin's 11/12 is better than OV's 14/15 and OV's strike shortened 12/13, AINEC.

1.45 PPG versus 1.oo PPG and 1.17 PPG
1.00 ES PPG versus 0.58 ES PPG and 0.60 ES PPG
MORE GPG than OV's 14/15 and SAME GPG as OV's 12/12

There's also this . . .

0.95 PLAYOFF PPG during the decade versus 0.86 PLAYOFF PPG
0.56 PLAYOFF ES PPGversus 0.48 PLAYOFF ES PPG

OV does have more playoff goals, althought interestingly the playoff ES goals per 60 favors Malkin.

I already said Malkin's 11/12 is clearly the best season between them in this time period so I don't know why you're bringing that up. The comparison was Malkin's 17/18 vs OV's 14/15.

 

[KIRK]

I already said Malkin's 11/12 is clearly the best season between them in this time period so I don't know why you're bringing that up. The comparison was Malkin's 17/18 vs OV's 14/15.

Ah, didn't realize it was EXCLUSIVELY to 17/18. I actually agree that OV's two best seasons were better than that one.

Look, if you want to choose OV in the poll because he's healthier or he scores more goals, then I get that and we can agree to disagree as grown ups.

EDIT: The 14/15 was better than 17/18 does assume that you can project the strike shortened season over a full season, but I won't argue someone doing it.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Malkin's 11/12 is obviously the best season between them in this time period. There is no way his 17/18 was better than OV's 12/13 or 14/15.

Oh my you’re living in fantasy land if you think that there’s no way that Malkin’s 2017-2018 season is better than Ovechkin’s 2014-2015. Malkin leads every category but hits (lol) and goals.

 

[KIRK]

Oh my you’re living in fantasy land if you think that there’s no way that Malkin’s 2017-2018 season is better than Ovechkin’s 2014-2015. Malkin leads every category but hits (lol) and goals.

I could get one arguing that OV's 2014-2015 PROJECTED to a full season would rank above Malkin's 2017-2018. I might even be more inclined than not to agree with that assumption.

Of course, that's like assuming WHAT IF with respect to Malkin's health, and we both know projections only count in one direction.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Oh my you’re living in fantasy land if you think that there’s no way that Malkin’s 2017-2018 season is better than Ovechkin’s 2014-2015. Malkin leads every category but hits (lol) and goals.

Scoring was up in 17/18 so raw totals don't mean anything. OV won a rocket by double digits over prime Stamkos, Malkin was 4th in 17/18. And although both were 4th in pts, OV wasn't double digits away from 1st like Malkin was.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Ah, didn't realize it was EXCLUSIVELY to 17/18. I actually agree that OV's two best seasons were better than that one.

Look, if you want to choose OV in the poll because he's healthier or he scores more goals, then I get that and we can agree to disagree as grown ups.

EDIT: The 14/15 was better than 17/18 does assume that you can project the strike shortened season over a full season, but I won't argue someone doing it.

I could get one arguing that OV's 2014-2015 PROJECTED to a full season would rank above Malkin's 2017-2018. I might even be more inclined than not to agree with that assumption.

Of course, that's like assuming WHAT IF with respect to Malkin's health, and we both know projections only count in one direction.

14/15 was a full season. I think you're confusing it with 12/13 lol.

 

[KIRK]

14/15 was a full season. I think you're confusing it with 12/13 lol.

Crap. Yes. I jut did. Senility. Wait until you get old like me.

That said, one thing being done in comparing OV's 12-13 to Malkin's 17-18 is projecting the half season sample over a full season.

If you took Malkin's last 48 games of the 17-18 season, that's 64 points over 48 games (29G, 35A).

That looks better than OV's 12-13 season to me.

Of course, it's NOT as good as OV's 12-13 season IF you project it over a full 82 game season.

Then again, if you can make a projection like that, isn't it also fair to project for Malkin's health?

Anyway, as I said, if your argument is Malkin has been injured more or goals matter more and that's your argument why you prefer OV, then I get it even if I may disagree.

 

[PromisedLand]

If Malkin had the linemates Crosby (or Ovechkin) gets, he'd kill this league . . . like he does against the toughest matchups every time Crosby is out, this year included.

And if Ovechkin got the linemates and usage Malkin gets when Crosby is healthy?

See, this swings both ways . . .

As an aside, I'll take Malkin all things being equal, but anyone saying Ovechkin because of health or goal scoring at least is being honest about things.

I think Malkin gets easier usage compared to Crosby and Ovi

Both Ovi and Sid usually draw oppositions' top defenders and a strong checking line

 

[KIRK]

I think Malkin gets easier usage compared to Crosby and Ovi

Both Ovi and Sid usually draw oppositions' top defenders and a strong checking line

True.

Except Malkin also doesn't get the same quality of linemates/linemates suited to complement him and minutes like they do.

When he does-- when Crosby is out and he gets Crosby's linemates and Crsoby/OV like usage-- his stats go up, not down.

Like his MVP season. Like this season when Crosby was out and other similar times.

Basically the times Malkin has been indisputably better than OV in the last decade.

 

[PromisedLand]

True.

Except Malkin also doesn't get the same quality of linemates/linemates suited to complement him and minutes like they do.

When he does-- when Crosby is out and he gets Crosby's linemates and Crsoby/OV like usage-- his stats go up, not down.

Like his MVP season. Like this season when Crosby was out.

How much do Malkin's stats go up by? Is it substantial?

If we broke them down by EV Strength and PP how do they look?

 

[KIRK]

How much do Malkin's stats go up by? Is it substantial?

If we broke them down by EV Strength and PP how do they look?

It's pretty substantial. I don't know the numbers, but the two extended times this decade were his MVP season and the 26 game stretch this season.

The MVP season speaks for itself.

The 26 game stretch this season (Guentzel only played on his wing for 16 of those games, BTW):

38 points
11G, 27A overall
10G, 17A at ES (that ES PPG is just above his 11-12 ES PPG)

In the other 29 games, it's 36 points (14G, 22a overall and 8G, 15A at ES)

Definitely far more dominant at ES when Crosby is out, and it's not even close.

 

[PromisedLand]

It's pretty substantial. I don't know the numbers, but the two extended times this decade were his MVP season and the 26 game stretch this season.

The MVP season speaks for itself.

The 26 game stretch this season (Guentzel only played on his wing for 16 of those games, BTW):

38 points
11G, 27A overall
10G, 17A at ES (that ES PPG is just above his 11-12 ES PPG)

In the other 29 games, it's 36 points (14G, 22a overall and 8G, 15A at ES)

Definitely far more dominant at ES when Crosby is out, and it's not even close.

Hmm... I guess I will have to retract my initial statement then. I stand corrected!