Yea, this is one thing I think gets overblown too. The goal is to win the cup, and you're not going to win the cup without a team good enough to still make the playoffs even if your star player misses 20 games. So as long as he's healthy for the playoffs, what does it really matter?
Ovechkin vs Malkin: 2010/2011 - Present
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Yea, this is one thing I think gets overblown too. The goal is to win the cup, and you're not going to win the cup without a team good enough to still make the playoffs even if your star player misses 20 games. So as long as he's healthy for the playoffs, what does it really matter?
Gurglesons
Registered User
I'm not sure what that has to do with Ovechkin being a better player than Malkin though.
The issue is we are faulting Malkin for not playing in the regular season when he had nagging injuries as being "not better". That doesn't really match up to me.
If we want to say Ovechkin was more important to his than Malkin because of Malkin's injuries. Sure, solid argument. But Malkin's skill as a player shouldn't be effected if he took off time in the regular season.
If he was consistently missing the playoffs, I'd get the argument given he wouldn't be able to demonstrate his worth in the highest level of play, but Malkin has pretty much played every series the Penguins have been in outside of one in 2010-2011 and has played the same amount of games.
Also, if we are going to fault Malkin for that. Shouldn't we put weight in Ovechkin being healthy in multiple seasons where his team missed the playoffs?
But if the team isn't good enough to survive some injuries it's not going anywhere in the playoffs anyway.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I guess. But, why is Malkin punished for taking time to heal up because his team was a contender and Ovechkin given props for playing 78 games in a season where his team missed the playoffs?
At the same time though you have to consider Malkin's per game numbers are affected by "taking time to heal up". I don't know if I would say they're inflated compared to what he's capable of because he often seems to have nagging injuries that linger when he's back, but if he played through them, it's likely his numbers per game would be worse. Ovechkin has some hand/wrist issues in both '11 and '17 that he played through and were likely the cause of his goal decrease those seasons.
It's not like Malkin hasn't missed playoff games during this time period though. He missed the entirety of the 2011 playoffs. Could he not have made a difference for that team if he was healthy? I mean they were one game away from defeating a Lightning team that were one game away from the finals. He also missed game 6 against the Flyers in 2018 but luckily, Guentzel was there with his 4 goals to put Pittsburgh over the top. He also missed the first 2 games of the next series against the Capitals. Malkin is a great enough player where he could win a playoff game by himself and who knows, maybe if he plays game 2, the Penguins go up 2-0 and it's a different series.
That's where Ovechkin's value comes in and should be considered in a poll like this. Sure, Malkin is the better player per game but he's not always there. You know what you're getting from Ovechkin and he's not going to miss a meaningful amount of games.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Okay. Let's look at the equal sample they have in the playoffs. .86 to .95. .09 difference still relatively higher like the PPG difference of .17 in the regular season.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I just see this as a way to deflect from the fact Malkin has the point advantage.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Malkin has more points in the playoffs in the same amount of games. Clearly you prefer one of the players to the others for NBC / Sportsnet rational.
It's not as black and white as just looking at who had the most points. If that was the case, there would be no need to discuss anything.
Gurglesons
Registered User
When the point production is as stunningly in favor of one player it is, tbh.
Not to mention Malkin has the better cup run in 2017 despite Ovie having the Smythe.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Not in terms of level of play it isn't and that's what I was responding to in the post.
Malkin had his accomplishment playing almost 1.5 MPG less than Ovi and with less PP TOI as well.
Stats/60 don't really matter when comparing 1st line guys to 3rd line guys but when comparing elite players to elite players it does have significance and bring some context to the discussion.
But we are going to agree to disagree as the shine from Ovechkin's prime seems to never fade in some peoples minds.
McBaevid
Lottery Dynasty
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Malkin: 25 GP, 10G+17A=28pts, 1.12 PPG, +9
OV: 24 GP, 15G+12A=27pts, 1.13 PPG, +8
OV was also near the top of the playoffs in hits. Before you say he had better linemates, Malkin got the cupcake matchups because of Crosby. OV's run was clearly better.
KoozNetsOff 92
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OV: 1st in goals (10 ahead of 2nd), 4th in pts (6 behind 1st), 2nd in hart
Malkin: 4th in goals (7 behind 1st), 4th in pts (10 behind 1st), 7th in hart
OV also with 250+ hits. You mentioned ice time but forgot to mention Malkin gets to face cupcake matchups because of Crosby. But either way, not sure what "level of play" you were watching but OV was clearly better.
Gurglesons
Registered User
so a whopping 0,17 PPG difference and 2 SCs including one where he was the best scorer and yet, Ovie is widely winning this poll?
the small problem in your reasoning is that Malkin has never killed the league as much as when Crosby was injured.
Try again
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