I know you don’t realize this, but scoring becomes less the further you go in the playoffs. The fact that crosby and
Malkin have higher ppg averages in the playoffs than ovi is quite impressive considering they been to the conference finals 4 times and the conference finals 5 times I believe. I’m too lazy to look it up, but how many times has ovi made it out of the 2nd round? I know it’s way less then 5.
If ovi breaks the record he’s top ten for sure. I think ovi is the rare player that has gotten absolutely everything out of his talent. He scores goals like nobody in his era, and he shoots more than anyone ever has in the game. This isn’t a knock btw, but there’s no doubt there isn’t many more goals he could’ve scored. The thing is if some of the past greats had this mentality they would’ve scored 100 plus without question. They were however much more complete players
No I realize that, a majority of Malkin and Crosby’s point totals have come out of the first two rounds. Which isn’t uncommon, especially Crosby, who has a crazy PPG from the first round alone.
I think that’s a reach, to suggest they could have scored but decided to be more “complete” players. I don’t know who you are referring to but it’s already been proven that many haven’t scored at the pace or at the level Ovechkin has, which is why he’s in the conversation as the goat. He does what he does best, and that’s score goals. Just because last greats were more offensively dynamic doesn’t mean they could have scored more goals and had been more dominant and “decided” not to.
Ovechkin does one thing arguably better than anyone else in the history of the game, and it happens to be scoring goals.....which is the key to the game itself, to score. That should get more praise than his “lack of” whatever it is that many try to suggest makes him less.
Only in your mind is Crosby and ovechkin apples and oranges. No serious hockey mind would agree
Only fix minded posters like yourself would say otherwise. You honestly think they are the same style? Same kind of player? One is a goal scorer, the other a playmaker. One is about speed and physicality, the other about Finesse and possession. One is a center, one is a winger....
how you can sit there and suggest otherwise is beyond me. They aren’t similar even in the slightest, and any intelligent hockey fan would agree with me....
Being under a PPG in the playoffs while playing 90% of your games in the first 2 rounds isn’t gonna cut it. If he has 1 or 2 more strong post seasons, then he will pass Jagr, who’s playoff resume is lacking compared to the other all time greats.
And yet piling on more than half your points in the first round is? Again, your standards are all over the place and you use them at your convenience. If you actually knew anything, you would at least understand that it’s harder to score in the playoffs, and despite playing 30 more games than Ovechkin, Crosby only has one more goal.
His “under PPG” production is 126 points in 128 games, a .98 PPG. It still sits third since ‘06 only behind Crosby and Malkin. His 65 goals is only second to Crosby. He’s been a great playoff performer, respect his production for what it is rather than how it isn’t Crosby’s.
Jagr actually has great playoff production. I honestly have no clue what your talking about. He has 2 cups with 201 points in 208 games, which is 5th best ALL TIME. Sure he isn’t a PPG, but that’s what happens when you play more games for longer in your career. He had some deep playoff runs well into his 40s that weren’t the most productive, while his peak was without Lemieux a majority of the time on mediocre teams, yet his playoff production during those years was still great.
So double down on some % (and there are others besides MJ here) instead of being consistent in extreme positions?
Ovechkin has some holes in his game when being compared to the top 10 players of all time.
Indeed even among the top 4 there isn't a consensus on the order as each of those players have their strengths and weaknesses.
The main strength and meat of Ovechkin is his goal scoring but outside of that he is a bit lacking compared to other top 10 guys in consideration.
He isn't done yet so there is still time and he is a top 20ish guy almost by consensus at this point.
Isn’t it the same logic then to say that some of the top 10 are lacking in what Ovechkin is superior at? I mean this goes into really what you see or value more. Outside of the big 4, who arguably was a better goal scorer, had a better peak/prime, and was more consistent? I can only think of Hull, Bourque, and Roy at the moment. Of course Crosby is there too.
Go look at the top 20 players in the top 100 from the history board.
It doesn't matter if you like or agree with the list per se - just look at the top 20. How many of those players have a better overall playoff resume than Ovi? If your answer isnt at least over 15 'you're probably being very biased. It might even be closer to 20 than 15.
2 years ago Ovis playoffs were a weakness. Never past 2nd round was a bad thing. I know - team sport etc. Thats true - but a player of his caliber you also want to see actual results. The cup and smythe were tremendous. His playoffs are no longer a weakness in his resume. However - they still mostly fail to compare to the other candidates for top 10 all time.
He does have a super strong regular season resume. Thats obviously is a plus vs some of those top 20 players.
But to answer your question - thats why he needs a few more good playoff runs (ideally past 2nd round). To help rise his placement all time.
2 years ago he wouldn’t be considered an all time great at all without ANY playoff success. He needed a cup, and if lucky, a smythe to even be considered. His regular seasons resume alone is superior to a good chunk of the top 20....but he would never rank higher because of his playoff resume.
2 years later, he has a Stanley cup and smythe, but now he needs MORE playoff success. It’s the constant goal posts moving that I am referring to. This guy is arguably the best LW to ever play, or at least 2nd best at worst. He still has playoff success, but that doesn’t seem to have made a dent in certain posters way of thinking.
I mean, you ask, how many have better more well rounded resumes, careers....but how many outside of the top 4 have a peak like Ovechkin? How many dominated a certain part of the game like Ovechkin has goal scoring wise? The list seems to be heavily favored towards playoffs, especially O6 teams, which IMO is skewed but that’s just me.
If he ends up leading the entire NHL in goals overall, that’s a feature that many felt wouldn’t be broken, and would definitely round up his entire career. It would be hard to say he isn’t a top 10 player after that.
