Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[edog37]

Then you should seek help.


I'M NOT WRONG, I'M NOT WRONG - ALL 487 OF YOU ARE!


@Hockey Outsider was devastating in tearing this thought to shreds - but I'll take it yet a step farther with a prior comment from you.

Even if we were to buy your misguided claims about how virtually no other leading goal-scorers in the last ~14 years are HOF worthy and that somehow Ovechkin's Rocket total is inflated as a result (which completely dismisses the idea that Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of this era), adding more HOF-worthy goal scorers to the mix and decreasing the number of Rockets that Ovechkin has won would actually strengthen the argument for him since it's exactly the argument you've used to buff up Bossy's work. And, more HOF-worthy goal-scorers in the current era still wouldn't change anything about Ovechkin's career stats (that thing you're obsessively fixated on when they support what you want to claim and you wholly ignore otherwise).

You're cherry-picking which data everyone should consider and which data should be ignored, and it shows how intellectually dishonest you're being.

nope I just saw both play unlike the vast majority on this board. Ovechkin isn’t even Top 5 all time as a goal scorer. Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard, LaFleur, Bossy, & Hull were all ahead of Ovechkin. You may get back to your group think session now...

 

[edog37]

First, this isnt't a good comparison stylistically. For one thing, Backstrom is clearly a pass-first centre, whereas Trottier was a very good goal-scorer in his own right (he finished 5th in the league in goals two years in a row). Trottier was also a much more aggressive player - he was a hard hitter and was much rougher than his modest PIM totals would suggest. Backstrom is a much more passive player. But let's briefly run down Trottier's accomplishments.

Bryan Trottier won the Hart trophy and Art Ross in 1979. He was the second-highest forward in Hart trophy three times - 1978 (behind Guy Lafleur), then twice behind peak Gretzky (1982 an 1984).

In 1980, Trottier won the Conn Smythe and led the playoffs in scoring. He led the playoffs in scoring again in 1982. On the star-studded 1981 Canada Cup roster, he finished 1 point behind Gretzky in scoring (tied with several others).

Trottier was a fantastic defensive player, peaking at 2nd in Selke trophy voting (in 1984).

Trottier had a higher peak (by far), he was a better goal-scorer (by far), a better playmaker, a better playoff performer (by far), was better defensively, and was a much more aggressive, physical player.

No disrespect to Backstrom but frankly the comparison is laughable.

not really since I clearly stated talent wise. I would also add their roles were similar. Both were there to primarily feed their sniper winger who drove the offense. They were #1 centers who didn’t play a typical #1 center role. While I certainly like Trottier a lot more, I believe Backstrom gets short shifted. Backstrom has been excellent his entire career.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

nope I just saw both play unlike the vast majority on this board. Ovechkin isn’t even Top 5 all time as a goal scorer. Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard, LaFleur, Bossy, & Hull were all ahead of Ovechkin. You may get back to your group think session now...

Weird, because I saw all of them play too (ex-Richard) and I'd put Ovechkin comfortably top-5 all-time. Maybe you should go back and watch some film and refresh your memory about where guys were scoring goals and the quality of goaltending in that period of time and then think about what Ovechkin is doing against vastly better goaltending and vastly better defenses.

Or, keep charging at that windmill. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[GreatGonzo]

nope I just saw both play unlike the vast majority on this board. Ovechkin isn’t even Top 5 all time as a goal scorer. Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard, LaFleur, Bossy, & Hull were all ahead of Ovechkin. You may get back to your group think session now...

You never saw Bossy play. It’s one thing for ones opinion to sound ridiculous but it’s another thing to try to act like you know what your talking about, and then try to justify it with bold face lies. YouTube clips don’t count as “watched him play” FYI.

It’s pretty clear who has or hasn’t seen players play in certain eras. We both know your just desperate at this point..

 

[qwertyaas]

I’m pointing out the ridiculous notion that Ovechkin gets a pass because he “only plays” with Backstrom. Backstrom & Trottier are comparable players talent wise.

Again, how can you compare Backstrom and Trottier as being comparable talent wise yet Ovechkin is nowhere near the talent level of Bossy? If anything, your argument is flipped.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Last 4 games? 0 goals. 0 points. 23 shots on net. -5 and the Caps are 1-3. Typical OV.

Uh, the Capitals have won as many games as any other franchise since Ovie put on a Caps jersey and Ovie has scored more points and 50% more goals than any other player.

Calling this typical is nonsense.

Let me know when Sid gets to 500 goals. He will never get anywhere near 700.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Uh, the Capitals have won as many games as any other franchise since Ovie put on a Caps jersey and Ovie has scored more points and 50% more goals than any other player.

Calling this typical is nonsense.

Let me know when Sid gets to 500 goals. He will never get anywhere near 700.

5 straight games without a point, goal or anything productive in yet another Caps loss. Now -14 on the year.

Never forget it took OV over 200 more shots than Drai to outscore him by 1 goal last year. Real impressive. Also yet another year where he won't be a PPG, which is said given OV doesn't play D. You must rate Mike Gartner the 7th greatest all time player since you care only about goals (given that it benefits the one trick pony greatly).

Let me know when OV gets 3 Cups and 2 Olympic golds. Hell, let me know when he gets past the 2nd round more than once.

 

[alphabetical]

Let me know when OV gets 3 Cups and 2 Olympic golds.

Why is that required? Why do team accomplishments fluff any individual player's accomplishments? If cups truly are the measure, can anyone in the last 50 years compare to a consistent benchwarmer from the Canadiens in their heyday? Crosby is a f***ing scrub compared to claude provost (3 times as many cups!!) with his stat line:
Career
GP

1005
G

254
A

335
PTS

589
+/-

101
PS

52.8

 

[edog37]

You never saw Bossy play. It’s one thing for ones opinion to sound ridiculous but it’s another thing to try to act like you know what your talking about, and then try to justify it with bold face lies. YouTube clips don’t count as “watched him play” FYI.

It’s pretty clear who has or hasn’t seen players play in certain eras. We both know your just desperate at this point..

I’ve been a hockey fan since 1979, so yeah I saw him play. I also saw Potvin, Trottier, Bernie Federko, Mike Liut, Marcel Dionne, Rob Ramage, Peter Lee, Greg Millen, & Michel Dion play too. Were you even alive at that point? I highly doubt it.

 

[edog37]

Why is that required? Why do team accomplishments fluff any individual player's accomplishments? If cups truly are the measure, can anyone in the last 50 years compare to a consistent benchwarmer from the Canadiens in their heyday? Crosby is a ****ing scrub compared to claude provost (3 times as many cups!!) with his stat line:
Career
GP

1005
G

254
A

335
PTS

589
+/-

101
PS

52.8

because both wear the “C” on their uniforms. Is Steve Yzerman a lesser player because he only lead his team to 3 Cups with no Hart or Art Ross’s to speak of?

 

[Sentinel]

Ovechkin

Given your entire line of argument, it's pretty obvious you're just a biased hater. Your reasoning has been destroyed several times (and your equating of Backstrom to Trottier is simply preposterous), but you have your fingers in your ears, shouting "Ovy sucks!" I don't know why do people still bother with you. Nobody can convince you, especially not facts.

because both wear the “C” on their uniforms. Is Steve Yzerman a lesser player because he only lead his team to 3 Cups with no Hart or Art Ross’s to speak of?

Lesser player than who? Than Ovechkin? Yes. And that's coming from a lifelong Wings fan.

 

[alphabetical]

because both wear the “C” on their uniforms. Is Steve Yzerman a lesser player because he only lead his team to 3 Cups with no Hart or Art Ross’s to speak of?

Your response to my post has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Vex]

I can't believe it's 2020 and there are still folks who argue raw totals to compare players across eras.

Ovechkin is miles better than Bossy. Full stop.

 

[daver]

I can't believe it's 2020 and there are still folks who argue raw totals to compare players across eras.

Ovechkin is miles better than Bossy. Full stop.

Who is doing this? OV and Bossy were pretty much equal until OV kept going after Bossy's career ended.

 

[alphabetical]

OV and Bossy were pretty much equal until OV kept going after Bossy's career ended.

Even that's questionable with statistics, Dave.

 

[daver]

Even that's questionable with statistics, Dave.

They both dominated the league in goalscoring through their first nine seasons. Bossy also dominated in playoff goalscoring.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Who is doing this? OV and Bossy were pretty much equal until OV kept going after Bossy's career ended.

That's not remotely accurate.

Through 10 seasons, Ovie had 3 Harts, 3 Pearsons, 2 additional Hart runners up, 5 goalscoring titles, an Art Ross, and led the NHL in PPG 3 times. - 5 Hart finishes that are higher than Bossy ever achieved. Through that span Ovie led the NHL in points and had 40% more goals than the second best goal scorer.

Bossy had 2 goalscoring titles and a Smythe, did not lead the NHL in points and had 5.5% more goals than the second best goal scorer.

^^^One of these things is not like the other.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I’ve been a hockey fan since 1979, so yeah I saw him play. I also saw Potvin, Trottier, Bernie Federko, Mike Liut, Marcel Dionne, Rob Ramage, Peter Lee, Greg Millen, & Michel Dion play too. Were you even alive at that point? I highly doubt it.

Anymore names you would like to drop in hopes that it makes your story look less fictional? Maybe throw in some more obscure names to make it seem legit.

because both wear the “C” on their uniforms. Is Steve Yzerman a lesser player because he only lead his team to 3 Cups with no Hart or Art Ross’s to speak of?

Steve Yzerman was probably the third best offensive player behind Gretzky and Lemieux for most of the 80s and early 90s. He carried some horrid Wings teams while winning a Pearson at the height of Gretzky/Lemieux. He also has the most points in a season not named Gretzky and Lemieux. He didn’t start winning cups until he was in his 30s and past his offensive prime, regardless he still finished 9th in points and 8th in assists among all Centers from ‘97-‘02, while finishing 5th in points, assists, and 6th in goals in the post season within that same time frame.

For a guy who claims to have been a fan since ‘79, I figured you would know these things and not ask ridiculous questions that hold obvious answers.

 

[ImporterExporter]

That's not remotely accurate.

Through 10 seasons, Ovie had 3 Harts, 3 Pearsons, 2 additional Hart runners up, 5 goalscoring titles, an Art Ross, and led the NHL in PPG 3 times. - 5 Hart finishes that are higher than Bossy ever achieved. Through that span Ovie led the NHL in points and had 40% more goals than the second best goal scorer.

Bossy had 2 goalscoring titles and a Smythe, did not lead the NHL in points and had 5.5% more goals than the second best goal scorer.

^^^One of these things is not like the other.

While taking 1000% more shots than any other player in the league.

Why didn't he lead the lead by a bigger margin given the massive disparity in rubber he throws at the net vs the rest of his peers?

You can put an * next his his Hart from 2012-13. Real impressive it took a full month to catch up to the guy who was far and away the best player in the NHL that year until Brooks Orpik decided to put a 90+ MHP slap shot into his jaw.

Also never made it past the 2nd round of the postseason in that span either with many choke jobs, none bigger than him getting stoned by MAF of all people on Washington ice early in game 7, 2009.

OV is only 6th all time in goals per game in NHL history. He's behind...shockingly, Mike Bossy, Mario, Babe Dye, Cy Denneny, and Bure.

Never forget it took OV 200+ more shots to outscore Drai by 1 goal last year. 1.

Yeah, absolute stone cold lock for top 10 all time.

 

[GreatGonzo]

While taking 1000% more shots than any other player in the league.

Why didn't he lead the lead by a bigger margin given the massive disparity in rubber he throws at the net vs the rest of his peers?

You can put an * next his his Hart from 2012-13. Real impressive it took a full month to catch up to the guy who was far and away the best player in the NHL that year until Brooks Orpik decided to put a 90+ MHP slap shot into his jaw.

Also never made it past the 2nd round of the postseason in that span either with many choke jobs, none bigger than him getting stoned by MAF of all people on Washington ice early in game 7, 2009.

OV is only 6th all time in goals per game in NHL history. He's behind...shockingly, Mike Bossy, Mario, Babe Dye, Cy Denneny, and Bure.

Never forget it took OV 200+ more shots to outscore Drai by 1 goal last year. 1.

Yeah, absolute stone cold lock for top 10 all time.

We get it, you hate Ovechkin....so much so that your willing to look silly with all your accusations without even considering the basic context...

who won the Hart in 2013? Ovechkin, no amount of whining from you changes that. Can’t be the best if you aren’t playing.

Gretzky once said, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take....and he lead the league in shots MANY times, I guess he’s inferior for it as well?

“Never made it past the 2nd round with many choke jobs.” I’ve already went over this with you yet your blind hatred for the man makes you repeat such nonesense, but yes continue being deliberately obtuse to his cup and smythe he just recently won. I’m sure that still hurts your spirit.

Maybe his GPG has something to do with him paying MORE games??? *shocked.* how many times did those players lead the league in goals compared to Ovechkin? Again, obtuse as hell.

I’ll let Crosby know that your doing such a fine job protecting his honor, maybe one day he will let you sniff his jock strap.

 

[Khomutov]

Lol i don't like Crosby at all but i can still say he is a great player. ImporterExporter and his hate against Ovechkin is something irrational.

 

[tread102]

Uh, the Capitals have won as many games as any other franchise since Ovie put on a Caps jersey and Ovie has scored more points and 50% more goals than any other player.

Calling this typical is nonsense.

Let me know when Sid gets to 500 goals. He will never get anywhere near 700.

Ovi will never get to 3 cups either. Ovi is great if you like winning games in December and January. Caps do have quite a few presidents cups

 

[GreatGonzo]

Ovi will never get to 3 cups either. Ovi is great if you like winning games in December and January. Caps do have quite a few presidents cups

Why are you ignoring that he won a Stanley cup and a Conn smythe?

Seriously, [mod]. You are all the same ones who said he would NEVER be Crosbsys level and NEVER would be considered an all time great until he wins a cup and possibly a smythe. I read it everywhere.....yet here we are, and the goal posts are constantly shifting for posters like you to actually have an argument.

Sure, he might not win 3 cups.....and yet why is that suddenly a set standard? Why does him having one get to be pushed aside because it’s not 3? Not every team can have the two best playoff players of this generation on the same team. I know that’s a hard idea to grasps but it certainly wasn’t the Crosby show all 3 cup runs, in fact far from it.

 

[ImporterExporter]

How about we go ahead and lock this baby up with Sid and another big ole game pushing Pitt into first in the metro. No Malkin? No problem. Sid had more points tonight than OV has in his last 7 games. Still elite offensive production, put on a Selke clinic in the 3rd period tonight.

One guy is a legendary goal scorer.

The other is a legendary hockey player.

 

[tread102]

The ultimate goal in hockey is to win the Stanley cup. Championships are the measuring stick. It’s why Brady is considered the goat in football. OVI has one championship, and a case full of meaningless regular season awards. If he gets another cup the debate heats up, until then he’s on the outside looking in.

Without another cup I don’t think history will be too kind to OVI. Most tooting his horn only saw him and his generation play. In 20 years when people look at his stats they will see a minus player, that took an insane amount of shots. Right now he’s the greatest Russian to ever play the game, however if Malkin gets another cup and smythe and ovi finishes his career with just one, that title is in jeopardy.