Speculation: Outlook on our defense's future

[PoutineSp00nZ]

The sad thing is Murray keeps saying that he likes our defense.

What Murray tells the media means absolutely nothing. He's not going to trash his players publicly and hurt their value. Never mind what it does to moral.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Our D is definitely not as bad as Maclean made them appear to be

I've been mostly pleased with how the D has performed under Cameron

Yes still room to improve and yes mistakes are still being made

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I am making my point. None of us know what is and is not offered in discussions, so that is essentially a non-argument (more precisely a crap argument, but I digress). The tangible proof we have are deals that are made. We are in dollar in/dollar out mode, which impacts on our ability to make deals. Especially when it comes to moving out the contracts people here tend to want to get rid of, such as Greening or Michalek.

You haven't got any tangible proof, you are making an assumption that says 'no trades = fixed salary structure' which is nothing but your personal opinion backed by nothing.

If we are dollar in dollar out mode as you suggest, then why did the Sens sign Ryan, Lehner, Anderson, Legwand, Michalek, etc.?

Fact is running a successful NHL team isn't about spending, its about spending wisely.

The Sens currently have 11 players that are under 25, 6 of those contracts are set to expire at the end of this season, I guarantee once they all are signed the team's salaries will grow by millions.

Until I see Ceci, Hoffman, Stone, Chaisson, or Zibanejad ask for a trade for salary reasons, then I will continue to believe the alarmists about salary are nothing more than alarmists.

 

[aragorn]

You haven't got any tangible proof, you are making an assumption that says 'no trades = fixed salary structure' which is nothing but your personal opinion backed by nothing.

If we are dollar in dollar out mode as you suggest, then why did the Sens sign Ryan, Lehner, Anderson, Legwand, Michalek, etc.?

Fact is running a successful NHL team isn't about spending, its about spending wisely.

The Sens currently have 11 players that are under 25, 6 of those contracts are set to expire at the end of this season, I guarantee once they all are signed the team's salaries will grow by millions.

Until I see Ceci, Hoffman, Stone, Chaisson, or Zibanejad ask for a trade for salary reasons, then I will continue to believe the alarmists about salary are nothing more than alarmists.

The Ottawa budget seems to have grown as the cap goes up every yr & afterall Ottawa has to at the least get to the cap floor which has also gone up with the cap. They don't seem to want to increase the budget all that much right now at a time when the team simply isn't that good. I imagine that as this team gets better & hopefully they will they will spend some money to get that one or two players that will turn them into contenders.

Remember last yr when Ottawa traded for Hemsky Edmonton had to retain some salry in order for the deal to go through. I think that is a perfect example of money in - money out. We'll see this yr if BM is able to make any deals but we have read that is the mode of operation in the Sun a few times.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The problem is that a lot of teams are being very cautious in terms of money

I have to think Murray figured he'd be able to ship out Greening or Weircioch but
-Methot's injury
-The low Canadian dollar (meaning teams are worried about the cap)

Have thrown a wrench into the whole plan

 

[GreatStateofHockey]

Even though Cowen-Ceci is a great pairing, I think Murray is expecting Cowen and Karlsson to form a dominant pairing long term. He's also probably thinking a guy like Englund, Wikstrand or Claesson could be a long term partner for Ceci.

 

[SenatorFrank]

You haven't got any tangible proof, you are making an assumption that says 'no trades = fixed salary structure' which is nothing but your personal opinion backed by nothing.

If we are dollar in dollar out mode as you suggest, then why did the Sens sign Ryan, Lehner, Anderson, Legwand, Michalek, etc.?

Fact is running a successful NHL team isn't about spending, its about spending wisely.

The Sens currently have 11 players that are under 25, 6 of those contracts are set to expire at the end of this season, I guarantee once they all are signed the team's salaries will grow by millions.

Until I see Ceci, Hoffman, Stone, Chaisson, or Zibanejad ask for a trade for salary reasons, then I will continue to believe the alarmists about salary are nothing more than alarmists.

I actually think you're both right. We are a budget team but I believe we're restricting spending in order to make sure we keep all of our young talent with expiring ELC's. Would seriously hinder the rebuild if we couldn't sign all these guys we're developing.

Only sign I see of Melnyk "cheaping out" was when the Methot contract talks fell apart (or appeared to). Now seeing this potentially serious back issue, I'm wondering if BM knew about this and that's why he was reluctant to shell out the money.

 

[Sensinitis]

Englund-Karlsson
Cowen-Ceci
Borowiecki-Wikstrand

 

[Micklebot]

Englund-Karlsson
Cowen-Ceci
Borowiecki-Wikstrand

Wikstrand is a LD I think. I'd expect Wideman in that spot over him based on that. Maybe he pushes Boro out. I also find it interesting that you don't have Claessen (another LD). He shows more upside to me than Boro.

 

[coladin]

Outlook is good. They are young and learning on the job. If people have the capacity to be patient ,they will enjoy a very solid, versatile defence for the next decade.

 

[jbeck5]

What Murray tells the media means absolutely nothing. He's not going to trash his players publicly and hurt their value. Never mind what it does to moral.

That isn't the issue. Its that he'll say something like "our defense is full and fine.I like our defense. I wouldn't mind adding a veteran power forward"

 

[Micklebot]

That isn't the issue. Its that he'll say something like "our defense is full and fine.I like our defense. I wouldn't mind adding a veteran power forward"

Again, if he's trying in the background to move one of his 8 D, why say he's unhappy with them? We can't realistically add another D without moving one, so saying we're unhappy with the group we have undermines his bargaining position.

Besides, our need on D is a top pair guy, those simply aren't available, so why even say we're looking? He's setting expectations (the market isn't there, why get hopes up?)

 

[Icelevel]

Wikstrand is a LD I think. I'd expect Wideman in that spot over him based on that. Maybe he pushes Boro out. I also find it interesting that you don't have Claessen (another LD). He shows more upside to me than Boro.

think wikstrand is RD. i'd like to see what claesson can do soon (should be as ready as he'll get by next yr.)

 

[jbeck5]

Again, if he's trying in the background to move one of his 8 D, why say he's unhappy with them? We can't realistically add another D without moving one, so saying we're unhappy with the group we have undermines his bargaining position.

Besides, our need on D is a top pair guy, those simply aren't available, so why even say we're looking? He's setting expectations (the market isn't there, why get hopes up?)

But once again, you're ignoring the fact he'll say exactly what you don't want him to say about the d, about the forwards.

And anyone who isn't on crack knows we need to improve both offense and defense to be a cup contender...no need to hide behind one.

The same problem that holds back the d holds back the offense. We have enough 2nd,3rd or 4th liners, but no star talent...so why is Murray criticizing the offense, but not the defense?

 

[Sensinitis]

Wikstrand is a LD I think. I'd expect Wideman in that spot over him based on that. Maybe he pushes Boro out. I also find it interesting that you don't have Claessen (another LD). He shows more upside to me than Boro.

Wikstrand plays RD although he's a LH if I remember correctly. Wideman is an option too.

Boro brings something nobody else in our system does. That's why I have him there. He's also shown the ability to play above himself. When push comes to shove, I think he wins if it's him vs. Claesson.

Would like to see what Claess can do in the big leagues though.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

The Ottawa budget seems to have grown as the cap goes up every yr & afterall Ottawa has to at the least get to the cap floor which has also gone up with the cap. They don't seem to want to increase the budget all that much right now at a time when the team simply isn't that good. I imagine that as this team gets better & hopefully they will they will spend some money to get that one or two players that will turn them into contenders.

Remember last yr when Ottawa traded for Hemsky Edmonton had to retain some salry in order for the deal to go through. I think that is a perfect example of money in - money out. We'll see this yr if BM is able to make any deals but we have read that is the mode of operation in the Sun a few times.

While I don't disagree with the notion the Sens don't want to overspend on a developing team, I really don't see Edmonton retaining salary as money in-money out when in fact Ottawa added salary for draft picks.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

But once again, you're ignoring the fact he'll say exactly what you don't want him to say about the d, about the forwards.

And anyone who isn't on crack knows we need to improve both offense and defense to be a cup contender...no need to hide behind one.

The same problem that holds back the d holds back the offense. We have enough 2nd,3rd or 4th liners, but no star talent...so why is Murray criticizing the offense, but not the defense?

Possibly because he feels the forwards have not produced as consistently as he expected and have lacked discipline in their game.

This team has managed to win only 8 of 23 one goal games this season.

The great hockey minds may want to blame this on the six guys on the backend, but the fact is the 12 forwards haven't scored opportune goals frequently enough, reverted to east-west style of play too often and been undisciplined in their play and shift length at times.

If the D was half as bad as some have claimed, Connor MacDavid would already be looking for a place to live in Ottawa.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

But once again, you're ignoring the fact he'll say exactly what you don't want him to say about the d, about the forwards.

And anyone who isn't on crack knows we need to improve both offense and defense to be a cup contender...no need to hide behind one.

The same problem that holds back the d holds back the offense. We have enough 2nd,3rd or 4th liners, but no star talent...so why is Murray criticizing the offense, but not the defense?

What he says to the media DOES NOT matter

Our D, when healthy and coached properly, is fine

Our offense needs help although injuries to black holes Neil and Smith means we've injected skill into the line up without having to trade

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

PW is also the slowest of the Sens D, so playing him with EK is just not possible given what EK's partner is expected to do.

You realize that Karlsson & Wiercioch have played 161 5v5 minutes together over the last 3 seasons and allowed exactly 2 goals against in that entire time, right?

 

[mcnorth]

I do think PW could be a Kuba type for EK, if he can improve his puck retrieval. Some of that is foot speed, but some of that is experience and courage.

 

[TheNewEra]

the right side of our defense is set in karlsson, ceci and a rotation of many different players

we need a top pairing LD, hopefully one of our guys can develop, then have cowen and boro to round it off

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I believe Claesson potential best partner for Karlsson. He's very very good defensively, he is physical, he is great skater and he does the little things right.

Like Methot 2.0

 

[operasen]

Karlsson, Ceci, Borowieki, Cowen, Gryba, Wiercioch are a fine start to the formula. Each brings something unique. Give them the rest of the season to gain experience and confidence. We are not winning a Cup this year.

Methot is done and even if he was able to play next month, could bring us another (good?) pick. Not the team guy we thought he was. Move on.

Phillips should be dealt for a Cup run as he should know he will be bypassed next year. He should not be here this year.

Claesson, Wideman, Englund, Wikstrand, Harper and probably the chance to draft Werenski, Roy or maybe even Kylington. Solid prospects on the depth chart.

Maybe we will target a solid UFA - Boychuk, Erhoff, who knows.

That is a very strong group in a year, certainly to start the 2016-2017 season, which is when I think this team can really make some noise. We need to stick with the Plan. It's Murray's legacy.

 

[Wiercioch2Karlsson]

You realize that Karlsson & Wiercioch have played 161 5v5 minutes together over the last 3 seasons and allowed exactly 2 goals against in that entire time, right?

Very interesting stat. I watched them together last night and generally liked them. PW gives EK some breathing room because he can also break it out and make a great first pass. Pretty similar to Kuba, actually (both tall, rangy, not particularly fast or tough). I just wonder if PW can handle that many minutes with his ectomorph physique.

I think PW needs a good summer training with some MMA fighters so he gains some much-needed muscle, explosiveness, and general toughness. He too often seems unwilling to engage physically, and he's clearly not strong or explosive enough to keep up with elite forwards.

Do the Sens have a suggestion box?

 

[Micklebot]

Very interesting stat. I watched them together last night and generally liked them. PW gives EK some breathing room because he can also break it out and make a great first pass. Pretty similar to Kuba, actually (both tall, rangy, not particularly fast or tough). I just wonder if PW can handle that many minutes with his ectomorph physique.

I think PW needs a good summer training with some MMA fighters so he gains some much-needed muscle, explosiveness, and general toughness. He too often seems unwilling to engage physically, and he's clearly not strong or explosive enough to keep up with elite forwards.

Do the Sens have a suggestion box?

The difference is Kuba had 30 pounds on Wiercioch. Kuba wasn't physical, but he also wasn't getting outmuscled that often, gentle giant syndrome.

Wier's lack of strength doesn't bug me much, it's his lack of urgency retrieving pucks that drives me nuts. He'll be going back to get a puck in our end with tons of time and leasurely skate to it while the forechecker hustles, closes the gap and turns an easy play to exit the zone into a puck battle. If Wiercioch was just a little better skater, I think most of his issues would be minimized to the point that they aren't worth worrying about.