GDT: Outdoors at Lake Tahoe | Avs vs Golden Knights | Outdoor Autoloss

[shadow1]

Burakovsky doesn't deserve that demotion.

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri ------- Donskoi
Saad ---------------- Jost -------- Calvert
Nichuskin ------ Bellemare ----- Compher

It's not perfect but at least it gets Compher away from C and puts a play driver (Saad) on the 3rd line.

The lack of offense from the bottom 6 and especially from the (non-existent) 3rd line is a significant problem for this team.

It's not so much about a demotion as it is returning to something that's worked in the past.

Nichushkin is also struggling as well (no where near as bad as Compher of course).

 

[Richard88]

It's not so much about a demotion as it is returning to something that's worked in the past.

Nichushkin is also struggling as well (no where near as bad as Compher of course).

If the 3rd line gets upgraded at the deadline it would bump Nichuskin down to the 4th line where his lack of production wouldn't be an issue. Nichuskin-Bellemare-Calvert would be a great 4th line in the playoffs.

 

[Avelanche]

He isn’t really—you could plug any other forward in there and they’d do just as well. It’s not like he’s doing anything impactful like winning defensive zone draws or creating shorthanded breakaways. The biggest reasons IMO the PK is a ton better to start the season is Grubauer and the fact that Bednar is rotating in Toews, Girard, and Makar. That’s a ton more skill than Graves, EJ, Zadorov, and Cole.

It’s a lot of different things. Including jost and JTC and the new forward group as well as the D. You can’t just plug anyone into the PK...

 

[Richard88]

It’s a lot of different things. Including jost and JTC and the new forward group as well as the D. You can’t just plug anyone into the PK...

Avs PK would ideally be a combination of Jost and Nichuskin (our best 2 PKers by far), Bellemare (for his faceoffs), and whoever the 3C is.

PK1: 3C - Jost
PK2: Bellemare - Nichuskin
Extras: Calvert/Donskoi/O'Connor

 

[Pokecheque]

It’s a lot of different things. Including jost and JTC and the new forward group as well as the D. You can’t just plug anyone into the PK...

I don't believe that at all. JTC is the only player who looks worse on the PK than before--back when it sucked at least he had the odd game where he generated a turnover and shorthanded chance with his speed. I don't believe he's a major factor toward its success.

BTW he was never a *great* PK forward to begin with, because he's not very good defensively. He's willing to block shots and motors around well enough but he doesn't have the defensive awareness to anticipate passes and get his stick in lanes.

 

[Richard88]

I don't believe that at all. JTC is the only player who looks worse on the PK than before--back when it sucked at least he had the odd game where he generated a turnover and shorthanded chance with his speed. I don't believe he's a major factor toward its success.

BTW he was never a *great* PK forward to begin with, because he's not very good defensively. He's willing to block shots and motors around well enough but he doesn't have the defensive awareness to anticipate passes and get his stick in lanes.

The idea that Compher offers an offensive threat on the PK is pretty exagerrated.

Compher has just 5 SHG's in 237 regular season games to date and 33 playoff games (total 270 games), which is a pretty bad return, especially when you consider that 2 of those came on the same PK shift. Other than that fluky shift against Arizona he only has 3 SHG's in 270 games. That's not exactly what I'd call a major threat.

That being the case, I'd rather the Avs just use their best defensive forwards (Jost, Nichuskin, Bellemare) as their main PKers instead of shoe-horning Compher in there due to some perceived offensive threat.

 

[AvsCOL]

The idea that Compher offers an offensive threat on the PK is pretty exagerrated.

Compher has just 5 SHG's in 237 regular season games to date and 33 playoff games (total 270 games), which is a pretty bad return, especially when you consider that 2 of those came on the same PK shift. Other than that fluky shift against Arizona he only has 3 SHG's in 270 games. That's not exactly what I'd call a major threat.

That being the case, I'd rather the Avs just use their best defensive forwards (Jost, Nichuskin, Bellemare) as their main PKers instead of shoe-horning Compher in there due to some perceived offensive threat.

The only argument I had for Compher was his speed on the PP, but that has since been adequately replaced with Burakovksy, and Toews to that unit. Right now, I think you have a winger in Compher, and nowhere to really play him.

 

[Richard88]

The only argument I had for Compher was his speed on the PP, but that has since been adequately replaced with Burakovksy, and Toews to that unit. Right now, I think you have a winger in Compher, and nowhere to really play him.

If Bednar wants to get Compher back to RW there are ways to do that, but not without breaking up the 2nd line or putting Jost at 3C which isn't ideal, as in the lineup below. The line of Landeskog-Jost-Compher got chewed up against Vegas last game though so I'm not sure that's really a solution.

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri -------- Donskoi
Saad ---------------- Jost --------- Compher
Nichuskin ------ Bellemare ----- Calvert

If we had a legit 3C you could possibly get away with a Compher at 3LW with Donskoi at 3RW, but ideally in that situation you'd just put him at 4RW:

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ----- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri --------- Saad
Nichuskin ----------- 3C ---------- Donskoi
Calvert ------ Jost/Bellemare --- Compher

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm fine with them using Compher on the PK--penalty kills are system-based more than anything. The added skill on the back end helps a fair bit in my opinion and I agree the coaches are trying to use a more aggressive strategy overall, but I still don't like the rotating forward up the middle. Still doesn't do much to box out the opposition and it does very little to clog up passing lanes.

I'll say it again and again--saying this forward or that is "good at killing penalties" is akin to saying "this car drives forward pretty good." It's nothing special about said player unless they're elite at it, like Ryan O'Reilly or Sasha Barkov. Most any forward can be taught to do it and at least be serviceable--I wish the coaches maybe had taught JTC to be more aggressive, perhaps read the play a little better, and maybe that would've made him into something like Grabner-lite. It ain't like Grabner himself was overtly skilled or rife with hockey sense. He just knew how to utilize his speed on the penalty kill to full effect.

Total side note--it still strikes me as odd that Bobby Holik was perceived as this elite defensive center during his prime when the Devils were perennial contenders, and he never killed penalties. The forwards they used back then were Madden/Pandolfo and Sykora/Elias. Despite that GIANT red flag and rather middling offensive production over the course of his career, he landed a contract that would be considered insane even by today's pre-flat-cap standards.

 

[Balthazar]

Saad ---------------- Jost --------- Compher

Why do you hate Saad?

 

[Balthazar]

I'll say it again and again--saying this forward or that is "good at killing penalties" is akin to saying "this car drives forward pretty good." It's nothing special about said player unless they're elite at it, like Ryan O'Reilly or Sasha Barkov.

Pretty much any center who can win a faceoff would be an upgrade over Compher on the PK.

 

[Richard88]

Why do you hate Saad?

I literally said twice in my post that putting Saad on that line wasn't ideal or a solution, not sure how I could make it any more clear...

If Bednar wants to get Compher back to RW there are ways to do that, but not without breaking up the 2nd line or putting Jost at 3C which isn't ideal, as in the lineup below. The line of Landeskog-Jost-Compher got chewed up against Vegas last game though so I'm not sure that's really a solution.

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri -------- Donskoi
Saad ---------------- Jost --------- Compher
Nichuskin ------ Bellemare ----- Calvert

If we had a legit 3C you could possibly get away with a Compher at 3LW with Donskoi at 3RW, but ideally in that situation you'd just put him at 4RW:

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ----- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri --------- Saad
Nichuskin ----------- 3C ---------- Donskoi
Calvert ------ Jost/Bellemare --- Compher

 

[Pokecheque]

Pretty much any center who can win a faceoff would be an upgrade over Compher on the PK.

Yeah. I'm pretty tired of Compher and Jost getting their asses handed to them in the faceoff dot, especially on defensive zone draws.

 

[Belgican]

Yeah. I'm pretty tired of Compher and Jost getting their asses handed to them in the faceoff dot, especially on defensive zone draws.

Kadri was 32% last game, Compher 50%, Jost 100%

 

[Bender]

Does anyone have a clip of a blatant forearm to Landeskogs head? No attempt to play the puck or the body. Just led with hands high.

That's the type of hit that needs to be a penalty. And yes the Avs got away with stuff too.

It was an extremely poorly officiated game. That's 2 out of the last 3 games... I'm starting to wonder if it was part of their franchise expansions fees.

The missed elbow on Landeskog was an easy one. There was the missed high-stick by Theodore on Saad and then the one called 2 seconds later on the Avs when Petro was high-sticked. It all happened in the same area, it makes you wonder what they are looking at? Then the ridiculous goalie interference on Donskoi when Fleury SLID into him outside the blue paint. Pretty easy to get goals called back when you just start doing that left and right. They go on to score on the PP and it's 2-to-2 instead of 3-1. There were lots more terrible calls and I'm not saying the Avs didn't get away with a few but if you're keeping score, it's not close.

Just a garbage game by the refs all-around.

 

[Richard88]

Landeskog (65.43%) and Bellemare (61.19%) are carrying the load for us on faceoffs. Kadri has only won 50.35% at 5v5 but dials it up on the PP with 62.07% so I think it's fair to say that he's been good when it matters as well.

Jost has been ok on draws at 5v5 (51.16%), except for on the PK where we get caved in whenever Bellemare (61.90%) isn't taking the draw, since Jost and Compher are a combined 34.7%.

Faceoffs aren't a huge problem for this team as we clearly have 3 guys (Landeskog/Kadri/Bellemare) who can win draws in key moments, but it would nonetheless be nice to add a RHS 3C who can take key draws on the right side without being on his weaker side.

5v5:

PP:

PK:

 

[Richard88]

It was an extremely poorly officiated game. That's 2 out of the last 3 games... I'm starting to wonder if it was part of their franchise expansions fees.

The missed elbow on Landeskog was an easy one. There was the missed high-stick by Theodore on Saad and then the one called 2 seconds later on the Avs when Petro was high-sticked. It all happened in the same area, it makes you wonder what they are looking at? Then the ridiculous goalie interference on Donskoi when Fleury SLID into him outside the blue paint. Pretty easy to get goals called back when you just start doing that left and right. They go on to score on the PP and it's 2-to-2 instead of 3-1. There were lots more terrible calls and I'm not saying the Avs didn't get away with a few but if you're keeping score, it's not close.

Just a garbage game by the refs all-around.

There were a couple of things Avs got away with as well, most notably Graves launching the puck over the glass late in the 3rd. I think Grubauer got away with kicking the net off on one ocassion as well when a guy was coming out from the corner undefended with other Vegas forwards moving through the slot. But yeah overall that bad refeering helped keep Vegas in the game more than it did Colorado. Firstly that Carrier hit created some momentum for them when they were getting dominated, and led to their first goal. Then the Donskoi call that gave them the chance to tie it at 2-2 instead of being down 3-1.

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

Landeskog (65.43%) and Bellemare (61.19%) are carrying the load for us on faceoffs. Kadri has only won 50.35% at 5v5 but dials it up on the PP with 62.07% so I think it's fair to say that he's been good when it matters as well.

Jost has been ok on draws at 5v5 (51.16%), except for on the PK where we get caved in whenever Bellemare (61.90%) isn't taking the draw, since Jost and Compher are a combined 34.7%.

Faceoffs aren't a huge problem for this team as we clearly have 3 guys (Landeskog/Kadri/Bellemare) who can win draws in key moments, but it would nonetheless be nice to add a RHS 3C who can take key draws on the right side without being on his weaker side.

5v5:

View attachment 399228

PP:

View attachment 399230


PK:

View attachment 399229

Compher taking more draws on the PK than the entire rest of the team combined and only winning 38% of them is a problem.

 

[Bender]

There were a couple of things Avs got away with as well, most notably Graves launching the puck over the glass late in the 3rd. I think Grubauer got away with kicking the net off on one ocassion as well when a guy was coming out from the corner undefended with other Vegas forwards moving through the slot. But yeah overall that bad refeering helped keep Vegas in the game more than it did Colorado. Firstly that Carrier hit created some momentum for them when they were getting dominated, and led to their first goal. Then the Donskoi call that gave them the chance to tie it at 2-2 instead of being down 3-1.

The one that knicked off of the shaft of Pacioretty's stick? Yeah, they showed it on a 2nd angle on the broadcast but it was a quick look. One of the officials must have seen it or else it would have been too obvious of a call. It was a wonderful sell job by Maxpac... he might have a career on All My Children when his playing career is over.

 

[Foppa2118]

Pretty much any center who can win a faceoff would be an upgrade over Compher on the PK.

And he loses them clean all the time. That's the biggest problem.

I remember about 5 goals against (could be more) that were a direct result of JTC losing a draw clean in his own end. It's a problem.

 

[Richard88]

The one that knicked off of the shaft of Pacioretty's stick? Yeah, they showed it on a 2nd angle on the broadcast but it was a quick look. One of the officials must have seen it or else it would have been too obvious of a call. It was a wonderful sell job by Maxpac... he might have a career on All My Children when his playing career is over.

Ah yeah you may be right. Now that you mention it I do recall seeing a very quick replay showing that the puck was standing up and deflected upwards off the stick.