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Our Approach to D-Pairings

conFABulator

conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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I apologize if this has been brought up previously or is being discussed in another post.

We all seem to agree that our top six d-men this year will be:

Brodie
Dermott
Holl
Muzzin
Rielly
Sandin

..with perhaps a veteran UFA still to be brought in to join Liljegren as our 7/8 on the depth chart. We all refer to Brodie / Rielly / Muzzin / Holl as our top four. A few issues are:
  • Rielly being re-signed
  • Knowing what we have in Sandin
  • Knowing what we have in Dermott
  • Is Holl actually a top 4
What if we rolled out the following configuration?
  • Sandin -- Brodie
  • Muzzin -- Holl
  • Rielly -- Dermott
We play each pairing an equal amount at even strength, say 16 minutes each pairing and on special teams, we play Sandin and Rielly (each as the lone defenseman on their PP unit) three minutes a night each, and we go with PK pairings of Muzzin/Holl and Dermott/Brodie for three minutes a night for each pair.

Why? What are the benefits of the approach?
  • Keep our guys fresh(er) for 82 games with everyone playing 19 minutes a night.
  • Find out what we have in Sandin with a solid, solid partner and 19 minutes a night
  • Find out what we have in Dermott with more minutes, less sheltering and Rielly as his partner
  • See if Rielly can carry a d-pairing before we figure out how/if to re-sign him
  • Keep Muzzin and Holl together at ES and on PP
  • Figure out who our actual top 4 is before the playoffs if we want to take more of a top 4 / bottom 2 approach then
Obviously, injuries happen and nothing works out as planned, but what about this approach? Are there obvious reasons why this is not a reasonable consideration? I am interested in hearing what you think about it.
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Advanced stats

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May 26, 2010
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You're not far off from something I'd like to try

Muzzin - Brodie
Rielly - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
 

Ashdown2

Registered User
Aug 19, 2006
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we have the same dcore that finished top 6 in every defensive category . they will probably roll out the exact same thing
frankly you cant really have reilly with anyone excpet brodie, so it really limits what you can do.

during preseason they should just rollout a random tandem and see what sticks.
 
Aashir Mallik

Aashir Mallik

Registered User
Apr 19, 2019
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11,869
first 10-15 games I’d like;

Muzzin- Holl
Rielly - Dermott
Sandin - Brodie
Liljegren
Mendel
insulate Sandin with the soundest and safest player
Muzzin holl shut down pair, play Liljegren with muzzin when he plays
See if dermott can ever reach that top 4 potential, this is his best bet. He can try and be a younger Brodie.

I’d like Liljegren to get into at the bare minimum 25 games. More around 35-40, I don’t think it’s necessary for every player on the back end to even play every game, if we take 3-4 games from everyone and give it to Liljegren, that’s 18-24 right there, find the rest from the guy who struggles the most
 
Wafflewhipper

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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Ha, I don’t even agree Rielly should be on the team. Trade him out now. He’s going to ask Werenski and Hamilton money. Why kid yourselves he’ll be signed with the Leafs.

It’s impossible so move him out. A bad G.M will not move him right away. I think Dubas keeps him and get nothing for him.
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
11,550
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We were actually really good defensively last year with Rielly - Brodie, Muzzin - Holl as the top 4. I just don't see messing with that making the most sense for us.

Still think we need big pk min defenseman to round out the group
 
conFABulator

conFABulator

Registered User
Apr 11, 2021
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Wafflewhipper said:
Ha, I don’t even agree Rielly should be on the team. Trade him out now. He’s going to ask Werenski and Hamilton money. Why kid yourselves he’ll be signed with the Leafs.

It’s impossible so move him out. A bad G.M will not move him right away. I think Dubas keeps him and get nothing for him.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with not wanting Rielly on the team, but I do worry about his next contract and this is also what makes the originally proposed pairings worth considering...if the 3 pairings above work out, then we know that we have a top 4 without Rielly because Sandin can step in with someone like Brodie beside him. We can also find out what we have in Dermott with a good partner (Rielly).
 

Zybalto

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Dec 28, 2012
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Looking at 5v5 goal differential among our pairings last year, probably will go with these:

Rielly/Brodie last year 62.28 goal differential
Muzzin/Holl last year 58.23 goal differential
Sandin/Dermott - (replaces Dermott/Bogo and their 46% goal differential)
 
conFABulator

conFABulator

Registered User
Apr 11, 2021
730
722
Zybalto said:
Looking at 5v5 goal differential among our pairings last year, probably will go with these:

Rielly/Brodie last year 62.28 goal differential
Muzzin/Holl last year 58.23 goal differential
Sandin/Dermott - (replaces Dermott/Bogo and their 46% goal differential)
Click to expand...

Thanks, this data is only for the pairings we used last year. I know from looking at it, it would seem foolish to split up Rielly/Brodie...but how much of that was Brodie's doing? I am not a Rielly basher, in fact I like him...but he certainly raised his game with Brodie as his partner. I would like to know what we have in Rielly, I mean really have in Rielly before we are contemplating his next contract.

Can he help Dermott elevate his game? Can they form a reliable and useful pairing?
Can Sandin step in and replace (most of) what Rielly gave us with Brodie?

I am not convinced of the answers to the above questions, But I really don't want to be paying $8M at Morgan if the answers above are "No" and "Yes" I would like to try to test these things for 30 or 40 games.
 
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Apex Predator

Apex Predator

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Jun 21, 2019
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We can’t be throwing Liljegren into the top 4 with Muzzin. He needs to slowly get his feet wet with bottom pairing and then if all is good we can move him up if injuries happen to the top 4.

I worry about Holl away from Muzzin because the times he has been away from him he hasn’t played good.

I would rotate between Dermott Sandin and Liljegren in the first month and see how they do. If it’s a train wreck then we need to go and acquire a veteran for the bottom pairing.
 
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MR4

MR4

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Oct 20, 2014
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I’m expecting Sandin & Liljegren to get rotated with each other on the bottom pair while Dermott is the consistent player, switching between LD & RD depending on his partner.

But I really think this is the year that we need to get lots of shifts of Sandin & Liljegren playing with top 4 quality D partners, as Rielly’s future here is a big question mark. Running Sandin-Brodie & Muzzin-Liljegren late in games (while giving them better QoC that they won’t get on the bottom pair) that we have solid leads in seems like a good strategy to see how they do with more responsibility.

The FO needs to see how those pairs work to see whether we dump Rielly/Holl from our long-term plans. If Sandin is a flop, then it raises the importance of making space for Rielly’s new AAV. And if Muzzin-Liljegren is a great fit, we can sell high on Holl in a deal next offseason who has largely been carried by Muzzin, and get a bottom pair RD that provides something unique to the team.
 
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zeke

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Top 4 is the best we've had in decades. I would touch them.

The bottom pair gets nice cushy matchups which is where you want your kids to get their feet wet.
 
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Mickey Marner

Mickey Marner

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Jul 9, 2014
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One of Liljegren, Dermott or Sandin should get top-four minutes with Muzzin, Rielly or Brodie. I don't really care which one it is, but we do need to actually attempt to develop a young defenseman at some point and twelve minutes on the bottom pair ain't the way.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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zeke said:
Top 4 is the best we've had in decades. I would touch them.

The bottom pair gets nice cushy matchups which is where you want your kids to get their feet wet.
Click to expand...
It isn't anywhere what you need to win a cup and Reilly will want to be paid.
 
zeke

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Dreakmur said:
It's certain not bad for the first time in a long time.... but one of the best in hockey is a long stretch I think.
Click to expand...

Not a stretch in the least. Very very few dcorps have 3 dmen as good as rielly/Muzzin/brodie. And then few have depth as good as holl/dermott/sandin/Lilly.
 
Stonehands1990

Stonehands1990

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Apr 2, 2021
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zeke said:
Not a stretch in the least. Very very few dcorps have 3 dmen as good as rielly/Muzzin/brodie. And then few have depth as good as holl/dermott/sandin/Lilly.
Click to expand...
I think people are jaded because we don’t have a stud #1 like Hedman or Hamilton but overall we have a deep D core. It’s a strength that people seem to think is a weakness
 
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jaric1862

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Jan 14, 2014
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Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott

The approach is very simple. Play the hell out of the top four and shelter the bottom pair.

Dermott is going to have to take a step on the PK.
 
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