News Article: Ottawa Senators Organization Actively Considering Building Arena At Lebreton Flats

[Nac Mac Feegle]

As categorically false as that is, that's the perception that car drivers have of public transportation ("Ewww, people in a lower income tax bracket than me! *insert poor person stereotype*").

I'm on the bus a few times a week, often after sundown. The notion that drunkards and rapists are prevalent is nowhere near true, especially on the buses that serve the CTC. But the suburbanites won't stop believing any time soon that they've avoided some ungodly scourge by not having to lower themselves to using a bus to get where they need to be, and won't be exiting their little other-people-proof metal-and-plastic cocoons anytime soon.

lol, I'm not talking about the CTC Kanata buses. I'm talking the downtown buses after dark. That is where people want the new arena to go. It's one heck of a different crowd hitting the buses at night from Rideau, the downtown core and bar district.

It sounds like the last time you took public transportation was at 3am on Canada Day . Who would take public transit if they got beat up, pissed on, robbed and yelled at by a drunk guy lmao. You no more likely to have any of those things happen on a public train than at the arena itself.

Again, talking about the downtown buses at night. You know, when the arena is DOWNTOWN and people are trying to get home at 10-11 pm?

You need to clean up that area if you want parents and couples taking public transportation to the NEW arena. And yes, it is a valid concern.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

It would be better but not ideal. Lebreton is not downtown, it's at least a 30 minute walk to the market. Not very many people will walk that much.

There isn't very much around that area. Actually closest would be the 15 minute walk across the bridge and into Hull, and again don't think too many people would do that.

You do realize that a new arena would be PART of broader development plan that would include restaurants, bars, stores, and residential housing (some of these things are already underway)?

 

[Sensored]

As categorically false as that is, that's the perception that car drivers have of public transportation ("Ewww, people in a lower income tax bracket than me! *insert poor person stereotype*").

I'm on the bus a few times a week, often after sundown. The notion that drunkards and rapists are prevalent is nowhere near true, especially on the buses that serve the CTC. But the suburbanites won't stop believing any time soon that they've avoided some ungodly scourge by not having to lower themselves to using a bus to get where they need to be, and won't be exiting their little other-people-proof metal-and-plastic cocoons anytime soon.

As a frequent user of public transportation the bus sucks and i understand not wanting to bring children on it. But, if you been to other cities, trains are a million times better. You have to look at the arena in Lebreton in 10 - 15 years time with an established LRT that reaches the suburbs.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

lol, I'm not talking about the CTC Kanata buses. I'm talking the downtown buses after dark. That is where people want the new arena to go. It's one heck of a different crowd hitting the buses at night from Rideau, the downtown core and bar district.

And the majority of the people using public transit after a game will be those who attended the game. So are you saying these people are unruly folks? Give your head a shake. This isn't Detroit, and the public transit in Ottawa is really quite safe. Where there is an attack or a fight, it happens at the bars and not on the bus. And the area downtown is quite safe. The one part of town that may be questionable - but even then it's still safe - is on the edges of the east end of the market. This arena will be at Lebreton Flats, quite a distance from this area.

 

[Sensored]

lol, I'm not talking about the CTC Kanata buses. I'm talking the downtown buses after dark. That is where people want the new arena to go. It's one heck of a different crowd hitting the buses at night from Rideau, the downtown core and bar district.



Again, talking about the downtown buses at night. You know, when the arena is DOWNTOWN and people are trying to get home at 10-11 pm?

You need to clean up that area if you want parents and couples taking public transportation to the NEW arena. And yes, it is a valid concern.

LRT will be in by the time the new arena is built so you'll be taking a train (much better than the current bus situation). Also if you're that weary of public transit then park at a downtown parking lot, they'll be empty since you'll be parking at 7pm and then you can walk the 5 minutes to the arena.

 

[Smash88]

You do realize that a new arena would be PART of broader development plan that would include restaurants, bars, stores, and residential housing (some of these things are already underway)?

It's still not in the downtown core. People will still have to drive there, so basically it will be the same as it is in Kanata.

If people don't go to the bars in Kanata after a game, they most likely wont go in Lebreton.

 

[Micklebot]

I think it's naive to assume that moving the arena downtown will somehow change this. The majority of people at the arena will still drive there and will still be stuck in "2 hours of traffic" getting home (btw I don't live in Kanata and it never, EVER, takes me more than a half hour to get home from the arena.)
You do realize that the bulk of this city's population lives well outside the downtown core and will not be using public transit?
I'm not arguing that moving the arena downtown would be a poor choice in any city that has the infrastructure to support it.
Ottawa is just not that city.

Ref: City of Ottawa official plan

Population projection | 2006 | 2011 | 2021 | 2031
Inside Greenbelt | 533,000 | 540,000 | 562,000 | 591,000
Outside Greenbelt, Urban | 252,000 | 291,000 | 367,000 | 432,000
Rural | 86,000 | 91,000 | 102,000 | 113,000
Total | 871,000 | 923,000 | 1,031,000 | 1,136,000

According to this, most of the city is within the Greenbelt, and it will still be that way come 2031. This also doesn't include a key target demographic for the sens; Gatineau which I'm sure would prefer a downtown location over Kanata.

I'm also not sure why you think nobody will use public transit to a downtown arena. With improving infrastructure (and likely a commitment by the city to continue to improve it if an Arena got the green light) I imagine we would see more use of public transit than we currently do. Right now, people drive because the options are limited if they don't want to go right when the shuttles are running. With a downtown arena, options would be greatly expanded which is key to getting buy in for public transit.

 

[Sensored]

It's still not in the downtown core. People will still have to drive there, so basically it will be the same as it is in Kanata.

If people don't go to the bars in Kanata after a game, they most likely wont go in Lebreton.

LRT will be in. I'm really sounding like a broken record here. Also, what bars in Kanata? You mean wait in traffic for 30 minutes in order to go to Montana's?

 

[Northern Neighbour]

It's still not in the downtown core. People will still have to drive there, so basically it will be the same as it is in Kanata.

If people don't go to the bars in Kanata after a game, they most likely wont go in Lebreton.

Lebreton is pretty much in the downtown core. It's not Kanata. Also, the market isn't the "downtown core", but it's a part of it. When I think of the downtown core, I think of the area that extends from King Edward to Preston, encompassing Lower Town, Chinatown, the business district, and the market.

And if the NCR allows restaurants, bars, and stores to be developed around the arena, which is what seems to be the plan, people will stay in the area. It's nothing like Kanata because there is NOTHING around the CTC at this time and the commute for the vast majority of people to get home will be significantly reduced. And of course, not to beat a dead horse, but the LRT will encourage more people to stay downtown and around the arena. It's not that difficult to understand.

 

[Tnouc Alucard]

The only reason I take my car to Senator games (now) is that it would take forever to get there on the Bus. But if an arena was located at Lebreton Flats, I would never take my car and use the transit system, as it would be easy to get there and back for a number of reasons. I would be able to have more than one or two beers at a game. As for the Street Cars System aka LRT, it would be able to remove more people quicker than what now happens at the CTC, where everyone wants to go in the same direction.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

LRT will be in by the time the new arena is built so you'll be taking a train (much better than the current bus situation). Also if you're that weary of public transit then park at a downtown parking lot, they'll be empty since you'll be parking at 7pm and then you can walk the 5 minutes to the arena.

Look, I'd love to see an arena in Lebreton. My contention is the idea that you can "force" people to use the bus. (That was the original point I was responding to.)

The LRT will help a lot (if the government gets off their ***** and does something), but I don't think you can automatically pencil in a bunch of empty parking lots downtown, either. Remember, a lot of the people working downtown will be staying in the area to catch the game...which means their cars won't be leaving the lots any time soon. There will be a decent amount of parking, but definitely not the amount that non-downtown people use currently to get to CTC.

That means you're going to have to convince some of the car people to leave their vehicles at home (or at a park 'n ride). You're not going to do that right now, not with the family crowd, anyways.

To make it a success, all transportation options need to be up and running and safe (and reliable).

 

[Micklebot]

It's still not in the downtown core. People will still have to drive there, so basically it will be the same as it is in Kanata.

If people don't go to the bars in Kanata after a game, they most likely wont go in Lebreton.

People go to bars from Lebreton after the events that happen there currently. You can walk from Lebreton to the market in 1/2 an hour, take a bus and be there in 5 mins, and if you decide to do that, you're not stuck in Kanata with limited transit options once your done at the bar. Instead you're right on the transitway and can catch a bus every 10-20 mins in any direction.

 

[Smash88]

LRT will be in. I'm really sounding like a broken record here. Also, what bars in Kanata? You mean wait in traffic for 30 minutes in order to go to Montana's?

People will not take LRT unless they are on the track. Which most people in the suburbs won't be. We can all sound like broken records.

There are a few bars at the centrum. My point is if people dont hang around Kanata after a game, why would they hang around Lebreton?

I'm not against putting an arena there, I just don't see it as that great of an improvement.

 

[Smash88]

People go to bars from Lebreton after the events that happen there currently. You can walk from Lebreton to the market in 1/2 an hour, take a bus and be there in 5 mins, and if you decide to do that, you're not stuck in Kanata with limited transit options once your done at the bar. Instead you're right on the transitway and can catch a bus every 10-20 mins in any direction.

Some will always go to bars and such in the surrounding areas, the great majority will not. That won't change as much as people think it will.

and to the bolded, that still applies just it's the opposite. People who live in the suburbs will still have limited transit.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

People will not take LRT unless they are on the track. Which most people in the suburbs won't be. We can all sound like broken records.

There are a few bars at the centrum. My point is if people dont hang around Kanata after a game, why would they hang around Lebreton?

I'm not against putting an arena there, I just don't see it as that great of an improvement.

The LRT is somewhat limited. The city really needs to be more aggressive in getting in more routes and coverage around the city. I know it costs bazillions to do, but if they're going to re-introduce rail to the city, they need to do it right.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Look, I'd love to see an arena in Lebreton. My contention is the idea that you can "force" people to use the bus. (That was the original point I was responding to.)

The LRT will help a lot (if the government gets off their ***** and does something), but I don't think you can automatically pencil in a bunch of empty parking lots downtown, either. Remember, a lot of the people working downtown will be staying in the area to catch the game...which means their cars won't be leaving the lots any time soon. There will be a decent amount of parking, but definitely not the amount that non-downtown people use currently to get to CTC.

That means you're going to have to convince some of the car people to leave their vehicles at home (or at a park 'n ride). You're not going to do that right now, not with the family crowd, anyways.

To make it a success, all transportation options need to be up and running and safe (and reliable).

The government "forced" people to stop smoking indoors in public spaces despite tremendous backlash from the public. People just need a little conditioning because they like to have things be habit and they detest change for no reason. If people have to take transit to get to the game, they'll get used to it.

 

[starling]

The LRT is somewhat limited. The city really needs to be more aggressive in getting in more routes and coverage around the city. I know it costs bazillions to do, but if they're going to re-introduce rail to the city, they need to do it right.

And the city would LOVE to do that. And having the arena downtown will be huge to justify further expansion. That's why this whole DT arena thing is so important for the city.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

Look, I'd love to see an arena in Lebreton. My contention is the idea that you can "force" people to use the bus. (That was the original point I was responding to.)

The LRT will help a lot (if the government gets off their ***** and does something), but I don't think you can automatically pencil in a bunch of empty parking lots downtown, either. Remember, a lot of the people working downtown will be staying in the area to catch the game...which means their cars won't be leaving the lots any time soon. There will be a decent amount of parking, but definitely not the amount that non-downtown people use currently to get to CTC.

That means you're going to have to convince some of the car people to leave their vehicles at home (or at a park 'n ride). You're not going to do that right now, not with the family crowd, anyways.

To make it a success, all transportation options need to be up and running and safe (and reliable).

Given that something like 300,000 people work downtown and there are probably somewhere around 50,000 to 75,000 parking spaces, I don't think parking downtown will be an issue. There will also likely be parking lots around the arena.

I think a good example is Bluesfest, where 25,000 to 30,000 people attend each night. It's a not parking nightmare, people still bring their kids to the event (even during the weeknights), and people use the bus. The LRT would make it much, much easier.

People will not take LRT unless they are on the track. Which most people in the suburbs won't be. We can all sound like broken records.

There are a few bars at the centrum. My point is if people dont hang around Kanata after a game, why would they hang around Lebreton?

I'm not against putting an arena there, I just don't see it as that great of an improvement.

With the LRT, there would be numerous hubs. People, as Nac mentioned, would park at the park 'n ride. You'll probably see extra buses on game nights at the hubs to get people home. There will always be those who drive, though. Alternatively, take a taxi.

And you can't compare what is being proposed for Lebreton with the current CTC. There's nothing around the CTC. The 2 or 3 bars at the arena are terrible and they only can hold what, 500, 600 people at most? It's not comparable at all.

And besides the potential for eateries at Lebreton, the market is not that far away. The market has a huge concentration of restaurant and bars that is unmatched anywhere else in the city. Kanata doesn't have this. Heck, even people who live in Kanata go downtown for a night out or if they want to go to a bar or club.

 

[Tnouc Alucard]

The LRT is somewhat limited. The city really needs to be more aggressive in getting in more routes and coverage around the city. I know it costs bazillions to do, but if they're going to re-introduce rail to the city, they need to do it right.

That train has left the station, and they're NOT re-introducing "Rail" to the City..............They're re-introducing Street Cars to the City, complete with overhead wires.

 

[Sensored]

People will not take LRT unless they are on the track. Which most people in the suburbs won't be. We can all sound like broken records.

There are a few bars at the centrum. My point is if people dont hang around Kanata after a game, why would they hang around Lebreton?

I'm not against putting an arena there, I just don't see it as that great of an improvement.

Say you live in Ottawa South, but not on the track. Why wouldn't you take your car, park at South Keys and take the O-train up to the game? Same for Kanata, why not park at Bayshore for free and take the LRT to the game? That's better than paying $13 just to park in a field isn't it? It'd probably be faster for you too.

As for going to the bar after the game, people don't hang around because you need to either jump on a direct bus with no stops or spend 30 minutes in your car to get to a Montana's. I'm a season ticket holder, I have been for 4 years. Especially after a playoff game I'm much more likely to just walk to Mill Street Pub or a new restaurant near the arena then go out of my way for mediocore Montana's.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The government "forced" people to stop smoking indoors in public spaces despite tremendous backlash from the public. People just need a little conditioning because they like to have things be habit and they detest change for no reason. If people have to take transit to get to the game, they'll get used to it.

That's a bit different. People have to work. People don't have to go to a hockey game.

It's a bit of a challenge these days getting people out of their homes in the middle of January with the mountain of gizmos, entertainment systems and all that techno stuff they have already at their fingertips.

You don't want to give people an "excuse" to stay home, if you know what I mean. Give the city the chance to show off the new LRT, a new and improved bus system, and a welcoming (as in, no price gouging) amount of parking lots around downtown and it will be a huge success.

 

[starling]

That train has left the station, and they're NOT re-introducing "Rail" to the City..............They're re-introducing Street Cars to the City, complete with overhead wires.

And it's great because "Rail" sucks. Street Cars are awesome.

 

[Smash88]

Say you live in Ottawa South, but not on the track. Why wouldn't you take your car, park at South Keys and take the O-train up to the game? Same for Kanata, why not park at Bayshore for free and take the LRT to the game? That's better than it paying $13 just to park in a field isn't it? It'd probably be faster for you too.

As for going to the bar after the game, people don't hang around because you need to either jump on a direct bus with no stops or spend 30 minutes in your car to get to a Montana's. I'm a season ticket holder, I have been for 4 years. Especially after a playoff game I'm much more likely to just walk to Mill Street Pub or a new restaurant near the arena then go out of my way for mediocore Montana's.

Why don't people do this now?

Is there even a Montana's in Kanata? Not sure.. There are plenty of other places though, that people don't go to after games. Those same people will not go to the market. The centrum in Kanata is closer to CTC than the market would be to the arena in Lebreton.

I'm not sure why people think it will be a complete reversal from what it is now.

 

[Tnouc Alucard]

Say you live in Ottawa South, but not on the track. Why wouldn't you take your car, park at South Keys and take the O-train up to the game? Same for Kanata, why not park at Bayshore for free and take the LRT to the game? That's better than it paying $13 just to park in a field isn't it? It'd probably be faster for you too.

As for going to the bar after the game, people don't hang around because you need to either jump on a direct bus with no stops or spend 30 minutes in your car to get to a Montana's. I'm a season ticket holder, I have been for 4 years. Especially after a playoff game I'm much more likely to just walk to Mill Street Pub or a new restaurant near the arena then go out of my way for mediocore Montana's.

I DO live in Ottawa south, and it's a two minute walk to the Bus stop, to jump on the 98, that would take me (then) right to the Street Car Line (aka LRT) hub at Ottawa U, where I could go Downtown for a pre game meal or whatever, proceed to the game and then get home the same way much quicker than taking my car would.

Why don't people do this now?

Is there even a Montana's in Kanata? Not sure.. There are plenty of other places though, that people don't go to after games. Those same people will not go to the market. The centrum in Kanata is closer to CTC than the market would be to the arena in Lebreton.

I'm not sure why people think it will be a complete reversal from what it is now.

I don't do this now, because according to OC Tranpso's route planner, it would take forever to get to and from the CTC.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That train has left the station, and they're NOT re-introducing "Rail" to the City..............They're re-introducing Street Cars to the City, complete with overhead wires.

The old streetcars is what I meant.

wheeeee!!

Wouldn't it have been nice if we would've kept some of those old beauties...