GDT: Ottawa Senators @ New York Rangers MSG [] 730pm

[Emerica]

I've defended Brannstrom before, and I stand by that he has a place in this league.


But we are getting a better idea of all the things he isn't and the list is just getting too big. He's a smart player, a good skater, but he lacks offensive finish, and he's just not fast enough to avoid being banged around in the D zone constantly.

He's the 5th best defenseman on this team but if we want to get better we will need to upgrade. If we roll into September and he's still the 5th best Dman here then we're in for another rough season.

I just go back to this: assuming they are healthy, how many playoff teams would Brannstrom start on?

If the answer is maybe one, maybe two then we need to look to upgrade. You can ask the same about our fourth line. The overall quality of the roster depth needs an upgrade. We can’t just keep trotting out the same guys year after year and expect different results.

Brannstrom is going to be 25 by the time next season rolls around. He is what he is at this point.

 

[Adrianopolous]

I’m being serious when I ask this, what do you see in Brannstrom, he has been given every opportunity to produce and he just can’t get it done. What can you possibly see in a guy that has over 250 games under his belt ? Don’t come back with a snarky remark, just tell me what you see in him.

There is no rationale metric that shows that Brannstrom belongs on a playoff team, point blank.

 

[Tuna99]

Korpi slides left .... goal goes to his right.

I wonder if they’ve considered playing Korpisalo upside down in the net to see if that helps him be better

Chabot and Chychrun are so bad lol

I’m kinda at the point where I don’t want either of them. Possible to trade both?

 

[JD1]

Brannstrom on a playoff team. Wind the clock back a few years, same things said about Codi Ceci. He's been a top 4 on a playoff team since he left here every year.

Is Brannstrom a problem in a 4 to 6 slot?

Or is Zub a problem on a top pair?
Or is Chabot a problem playing 24 minutes a night?
Or is Chychrun a problem with his - whatever number?

Brannstrom played 20 minutes last night and was our only D that wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

This team has a lot of problems. Brannstrom in a bottom pair role at $2M a year isn't really one of them.

He will finish the year as one of a handful of players on the team that brought value for his contractual value

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't think so. He's just not good.

My explanation was why people seem to like jbd. Or defend him.

If there was no brannstrom I think we would all be united in wanting JBD out.

 

[bicboi64]

Brannstrom played 20 minutes last night and was our only D that wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

This team has a lot of problems. Brannstrom in a bottom pair role at $2M a year isn't really one of them.

He will finish the year as one of a handful of players on the team that brought value for his contractual value

This kind of astounds me. Like he's not spectacular but there are so man more defenders on this team that are playing shite.

 

[Big Muddy]

I've defended Brannstrom before, and I stand by that he has a place in this league.


But we are getting a better idea of all the things he isn't and the list is just getting too big. He's a smart player, a good skater, but he lacks offensive finish, and he's just not fast enough to avoid being banged around in the D zone constantly.

He's the 5th best defenseman on this team but if we want to get better we will need to upgrade. If we roll into September and he's still the 5th best Dman here then we're in for another rough season.

I don’t disagree. The list of players that we’d (fans) like to replace is long though. Just looking at defense, there’s: Hamonic, JBD, Brannstrom, one of Chychrun or Chabot (or both). That’s basically the entire blue line except for Sanderson & Zub pretty much. Then there’s one or both of our goaltenders.

You can see where this is going. Teams like Salt Lake need lots of defenders as well, in fact an entire blueline, and will have lots of money ($41 m) to spend. RDs are always tough to get. I fear people are going to be disappointed.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I’m being serious when I ask this, what do you see in Brannstrom, he has been given every opportunity to produce and he just can’t get it done. What can you possibly see in a guy that has over 250 games under his belt ? Don’t come back with a snarky remark, just tell me what you see in him.

I see what anyone without a bias sees, this includes most tv analysts: A very good, reliable bottom pairing dman who can play up when needed and almost never gets injured, all at a very reasonable cost. Tying his value to his offensive output considering where he slots in, is idiotic.

But go ahead and tell me when we've had a better #5 dman.

 

[Alex1234]

We have only 3 D in the +
Brannstrom is one of them
He is not a problem at 2MM$ per on the 3rd pairing

 

[PlayOn]

My explanation was why people seem to like jbd. Or defend him.

If there was no brannstrom I think we would all be united in wanting JBD out.

I don’t think so. At least not for me. I think the game is currently too fast for him a lot of nights but he’s also inexperienced. I don’t think he should be in our top six next year, but I think he’s fine as our 7th D and then if there’s little improvement you can move on.

He brings something we don’t have back there with the shot-blocking. He’s not great at it but atp JBD is a work in progress, whether he ever becomes good enough I don’t know but I think he has some good hockey sense and could figure it out.

 

[Micklebot]

We have only 3 D in the +
Brannstrom is one of them
He is not a problem at 2MM$ per on the 3rd pairing

The problem with Brannstrom is every coach he has had feels the need to shelter his mins. The downstream effect of that is all the other D play tougher mins with those sheltered mins already eaten up.

Maybe he can be effective playing tougher mins, but until we start using him in those situations his lack of production in soft deployment is a problem. I'm hopeful a guy like Kleven can eventually come in and play tougher mins, without giving up any offence, he adds the benefit of wearing down the opposition over the course of a game with his physical play,

 

[L'Aveuglette]

The problem with Brannstrom is every coach he has had feels the need to shelter his mins. The downstream effect of that is all the other D play tougher mins with those sheltered mins already eaten up.

Maybe he can be effective playing tougher mins, but until we start using him in those situations his lack of production in soft deployment is a problem. I'm hopeful a guy like Kleven can eventually come in and play tougher mins, without giving up any offence, he adds the benefit of wearing down the opposition over the course of a game with his physical play,

Shelter him? Every time there's been an injury he's played up the lineup with more minutes and shined. I really don't see how coaches showed a lack of trust in him. Even JM realized how good he was the more he coached him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don’t think so. At least not for me. I think the game is currently too fast for him a lot of nights but he’s also inexperienced. I don’t think he should be in our top six next year, but I think he’s fine as our 7th D and then if there’s little improvement you can move on.

He brings something we don’t have back there with the shot-blocking. He’s not great at it but atp JBD is a work in progress, whether he ever becomes good enough I don’t know but I think he has some good hockey sense and could figure it out.

He was drafted a long time ago. I know dmen take some time to develop but…he’s not exactly toolsy. Yeah he blocks shots. But he doesn’t almost nothing else. His passing is suspect. No shot risk. No threat in the o zone. Doesn’t have size to win battles. Isn’t overly strong. He lines people up from time to time but not enough to say he’s good at it. His skating is not so great. One on one defending not so great. Very few tools to develop. I think Mann and co were hoping there would be a growth spurt. And he was also showing some offensive talent back then

 

[Micklebot]

Shelter him? Every time there's been an injury he's played up the lineup with more minutes and shined. I really don't see how coaches showed a lack of trust in him. Even JM realized how good he was the more he coached him.

Yes, he's been sheltered in his deployment, It's a fact that the numbers bear out, whether you want to admit it or not. Coaches don't seem to want to play him against tougher competition, that's not his fault, or something he can change, but it is a fact.

 

[PlayOn]

He was drafted a long time ago. I know dmen take some time to develop but…he’s not exactly toolsy. Yeah he blocks shots. But he doesn’t almost nothing else. His passing is suspect. No shot risk. No threat in the o zone. Doesn’t have size to win battles. Isn’t overly strong. He lines people up from time to time but not enough to say he’s good at it. His skating is not so great. One on one defending not so great. Very few tools to develop. I think Mann and co were hoping there would be a growth spurt. And he was also showing some offensive talent back then

A lot of this stuff gets better and easier with experience and confidence. He’s never gonna be the most toolsy dman out there and it will limit his upside in that I don’t see him being more than bottom pair but I think it’s also why he needs more time. He’s gonna have to rely on smarts and experience to be good at what he does, even a little added strength and speed will also help him. He was drafted a long time ago but has only played 100 NHL games.

JBD seems to understand his limitations and is trying to carve out a specific role for himself. That’s already a good chunk of the battle, no need to get rid of the guy. If he doesn’t pan out it’s unlikely we were going to acquire a 7D much better than him anyway, and if he does you have your bottom pair RD for the foreseeable future.

 

[JD1]

The problem with Brannstrom is every coach he has had feels the need to shelter his mins. The downstream effect of that is all the other D play tougher mins with those sheltered mins already eaten up.

Maybe he can be effective playing tougher mins, but until we start using him in those situations his lack of production in soft deployment is a problem. I'm hopeful a guy like Kleven can eventually come in and play tougher mins, without giving up any offence, he adds the benefit of wearing down the opposition over the course of a game with his physical play,

How did Jacques shelter him last night at 20+ minutes on the road? In a game where he was the only D not on the ice for a goal against

 

[Micklebot]

How did Jacques shelter him last night at 20+ minutes on the road? In a game where he was the only D not on the ice for a goal against

By giving him the least toi against panarin of any Dman on the team?

 

[JD1]

Yes, he's been sheltered in his deployment, It's a fact that the numbers bear out, whether you want to admit it or not. Coaches don't seem to want to play him against tougher competition, that's not his fault, or something he can change, but it is a fact.

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I think you're looking for things in numbers and seeing what you want to see.

The facts about our situation are that Jake and Zub play shutdown minutes. From there, you've got an 8 M AAV guy in Chabot..

So.....what we're really debating here is Brannstrom having easier deployment than the 8 AAV guy.

Do you find that unusual?

Maybe you can explain how minutes could be allocated in such a way that Jake remains the shut down guy and Chabot is still on the roster but we don't have sheltered minutes for the #3LD.

You're saying he is sheltered. Ok. Explain how he wouldn't be unless he was a better player than our 8 AAV guy

By giving him the least toi against panarin of any Dman on the team?

How controllable is that on the road?

 

[Micklebot]

I think you're looking for things in numbers and seeing what you want to see.

The facts about our situation are that Jake and Zub play shutdown minutes. From there, you've got an 8 M AAV guy in Chabot..

So.....what we're really debating here is Brannstrom having easier deployment than the 8 AAV guy.

Do you find that unusual?

Maybe you can explain how minutes could be allocated in such a way that Jake remains the shut down guy and Chabot is still on the roster but we don't have sheltered minutes for the #3LD.

You're saying he is sheltered. Ok. Explain how he wouldn't be unless he was a better player than our 8 AAV guy


How controllable is that on the road?

Why wasn't Hamonic sheltered in those graphs? Are you under the impression that every 4rd paid D is sheltered?

 

[Puikiou]

One silver lining about this season is that Brannstrom has finally arrived. He's a legit top 4-5D.

 

[JD1]

Why wasn't Hamonic sheltered in those graphs? Are you under the impression that every 4rd paid D is sheltered?

I'm at the point Micklebot where most interactions with you are a great big ???

You want to argue. About everything.

I'm not interested in that. I should just learn my lesson and not engage.

But if you could manage to answer my question rather than redirect... Well that is the basis of debate rather than an argument

 

[Micklebot]

I'm at the point Micklebot where most interactions with you are a great big ???

You want to argue. About everything.

I'm not interested in that. I should just learn my lesson and not engage.

But if you could manage to answer my question rather than redirect... Well that is the basis of debate rather than an argument

I'm not sure what to tell you JD1, they could start him more in the DZ and out against top line players more. Just like they did with Hamonic, just like other teams are capable of doing with their bottom pair D.

You accuse me of seeing what I want, I'm pretty convinced your projecting on that front.

 

[JD1]

I'm not sure what to tell you JD1, they could start him more in the DZ and out against top line players more. Just like they did with Hamonic, just like other teams are capable of doing with their bottom pair D.

You accuse me of seeing what I want, I'm pretty convinced your projecting on that front.

No. I'm not really.

JM played him 20 minutes last night in MSG. You think he was sheltered from Panarin. Martin didn't have last change.

But, that said, you're not unintelligent. Please explain to me how you can have a shut down LD, an 8 AAV LD and a 3rd pair guy that isn't sheltered

Now, none of your bullshit about playing him against top line guys more. That's why you have a shut down guy and then the 8 AAV guy.

Please explain how you'd do this in a way that the 2M AAV LD plays harder minutes so that you can give the 8 AAV guy and the shut down guy easier minutes just so you can say the 2m AAV guy isn't sheltered

 

[Micklebot]

No. I'm not really.

JM played him 20 minutes last night in MSG. You think he was sheltered from Panarin. Martin didn't have last change.

But, that said, you're not unintelligent. Please explain to me how you can have a shut down LD, an 8 AAV LD and a 3rd pair guy that isn't sheltered

Now, none of your bullshit about playing him against top line guys more. That's why you have a shut down guy and then the 8 AAV guy.

Please explain how you'd do this in a way that the 2M AAV LD plays harder minutes so that you can give the 8 AAV guy and the shut down guy easier minutes just so you can say the 2m AAV guy isn't sheltered

You know that most of the game is on the fly changes right? Just because we are the away team doesn't mean we have no control over the matchups.

It's a choice our coaches have made and every single year it's been the same, Brannstrom getting sheltered mins.

You've already decided it's not possible to play him less sheltered mins, your mind is already made up so what could I possibly say to convince you otherwise, it's not worth the effort,

 

[JD1]

You know that most of the game is on the fly changes right? Just because we are the away team doesn't mean we have no control over the matchups.

It's a choice our coaches have made and every single year it's been the same, Brannstrom getting sheltered mins.

You've already decided it's not possible to play him less sheltered mins, your mind is already made up so what could I possibly say to convince you otherwise, it's not worth the effort,

You're bitching he's sheltered

All I'm asking is for you to explain how, with a shut down LD and an 8M AAV LD, he could be deployed in a way that wouldn't be sheltered (unless the coach was an idiot I suppose)

So ...

Here's where we are.

You're bitching about him being sheltered

I'm asking given our assets how he couldn't be