GDT: Ottawa Senators @ Calgary Flames - Hudler appreciation edition - 8PM MT

[SKRusty]

it's still not really affecting overall goals (in terms of why we have fewer that last year), we are just getting more PP opportunities.

Hartley has yet to form a top 15 PP unit in Calgary. For a team that is not challenged offensively that's pretty sad. Having Johnny quarterback this years version is just wrong. Johnny should be finding sweet spots while Brodie QB's.

More PP opportunities should mean more not less goals.

 

[Lunatik]

Our pp is much worse overall and I think management thought they would be improving on last year, which is my point.

Yeah but that's not why scoring is down is my point. Yes the PP is worse percentage wise, but in terms of overall goals it's going to be a very small difference, so less PP goals is not why scoring is down, less ES goals is why is is down.

 

[SKRusty]

Yeah but that's not why scoring is down is my point. Yes the PP is worse percentage wise, but in terms of overall goals it's going to be a very small difference, so less PP goals is not why scoring is down, less ES goals is why is is down.

No it means less even strength time because teams are not scared of Calgary's PP at all. Teams are not worried about taking liberties with our players. Not thinking twice about dragging down a player threatening to score, or are not worried about getting an interference call on contact with our goalies.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Yeah but that's not why scoring is down is my point. Yes the PP is worse percentage wise, but in terms of overall goals it's going to be a very small difference, so less PP goals is not why scoring is down, less ES goals is why is is down.

I never said that's why scoring was down I was saying we were expecting to do better than last year but our system has been figured out so we are actually doing worse. I'm not comparing it to last other than the fact we are using the same system.

 

[Lunatik]

I never said that's why scoring was down I was saying we were expecting to do better than last year but our system has been figured out so we are actually doing worse. I'm not comparing it to last other than the fact we are using the same system.

apparently we arent in the same argument

 

[JPeeper]

I don't believe turnovers influence the game as much as most people likes to talk about them, but when you have a team with a borderline addiction to the outlet pass zone exit strategy (w/ no center left to help defensively) and doesn't have any visible after-rush structure, you'll turnover the puck more often than you should, and you'll get hemmed in your zone even moreso.

I can't blame the players for this, this is our breakout and is solely on Hartley.

Last year it was effective because no opposing team really adapted to it until late in the year. This year it has been heavily scouted and ends up in a ton of icing calls or worse.

The team desperately needs a more procession structured game.

 

[Lunatik]

I can't blame the players for this, this is our breakout and is solely on Hartley.

Last year it was effective because no opposing team really adapted to it until late in the year. This year it has been heavily scouted and ends up in a ton of icing calls or worse.

The team desperately needs a more procession structured game.

This team needs players that can play that style of game. With our defensemen, the breakout is designed around them because other than Gaudreau and Monahan they are our best offensive players. Hartley never used this system elsewhere, it was put in place because of the players he has. Until the players change, changing the system won't do any good. This system is as much on Treliving and the previous management group as is it Hartley.

 

[TheHudlinator]

apparently we arent in the same argument

I wasn't really in a argument just trying to make the point that our pp needs a lot of work.

 

[Lunatik]

I wasn't really in a argument just trying to make the point that our pp needs a lot of work.

Well discussion, and I just mean we were making different but loosely related points so it seemed like we were disagreeing with each other

 

[Bounces R Way]

This team needs players that can play that style of game. With our defensemen, the breakout is designed around them because other than Gaudreau and Monahan they are our best offensive players. Hartley never used this system elsewhere, it was put in place because of the players he has. Until the players change, changing the system won't do any good. This system is as much on Treliving and the previous management group as is it Hartley.

Agree with this, Hartley's doing the best with what he has. The strength of this team is it's PMD core and the young speedy forwards. If the Flames tried to play a game like the Kings or Blues we'd be laughed out of the rink. Simply don't have the personnel or the experience to be possession monsters. Hartley has the team playing to it's strengths, and the strongest players are enjoying pretty good seasons because of it. The special teams and the play in the Defensive zone have simply not been good enough however, and Hartley hasn't adapted well at all. Would much rather see the team break out as a five man unit like the Hawks or Panthers, abolish the damn stretch pass, and get these guys to play much more aggressively in their own zone.

 

[SKRusty]

Agree with this, Hartley's doing the best with what he has. The strength of this team is it's PMD core and the young speedy forwards. If the Flames tried to play a game like the Kings or Blues we'd be laughed out of the rink. Simply don't have the personnel or the experience to be possession monsters. Hartley has the team playing to it's strengths, and the strongest players are enjoying pretty good seasons because of it. The special teams and the play in the Defensive zone have simply not been good enough however, and Hartley hasn't adapted well at all. Would much rather see the team break out as a five man unit like the Hawks or Panthers, abolish the damn stretch pass, and get these guys to play much more aggressively in their own zone.

If you are referring to his own personal skill-set then yes.

In regards to the team that line couldn't be further from the truth. Hartley does not have the skills even get a PP or PK operating in the top half. Never mind developing a workable strategy to give his team the best chances at winning.

#firehartley

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I'm going to give Hartley until we get some more skilled size on our top 6 and a legitimate #4D before I rate him. I'm not happy with our team right now but I'm also realistic about our team and there's enough youth on the roster that just changing coaches isn't enough, though I'm sure you could get 3-5 extra wins (which is probably enough to be in a bubble playoff spot) with another coach, that doesn't mean that coach is necessarily building the best habits into the players.

I liken it to Thierren on the Penguins. He built good habits into the players, even if his systems sucked.
They add Bylsma, the systems are fixed and they win a cup. But Bylsma failed to maintain the good habits and the team declined.
Then they add Mike Johnson. Better habits, worse systems.
Then they add Sullivan. Better systems, ??? habits.

IMO Flames teams were kind of like that too.

D Sutter - Habits+System
Playfair - just a Sutter extension, but we saw the habits slipping
Keenan - System, but no habits
B Sutter - by this point the habits were bad and the system was bad
Hartley - he's brought the habits back around

Dougie Hamilton is seeing it too. Under Hartley he has to build good habits, whereas under Julien the system protected him.

Hartley is a good habit-building coach even if his systems are pretty sketchy. We've seen the results bare some indivudal fruit with Backlund, Brodie, Giordano, Ferland. Since the All-star break we've also had Monahan playing probably his best two-way hockey of his NHL career.

A day may come when the you-know-like fails, when we forsake Bob Hartley and break all bonds of headcoach, but it is not this day.