GDT: Ottawa Senators @ Calgary Flames - Hudler appreciation edition - 8PM MT

[Ace Rimmer]

Missed the game ... anything weird happen? Got a strange text message from a Canucklehead friend and I'm trying to figure out what he meant.

If it weren't for the posts it'd have been a 9-4 game.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Missed the game ... anything weird happen?

Flames had a two goal lead that, two minutes later, was a 1 goal deficit. They absolutely collapsed.

 

[Calculon]

 

[GAMO1992]

wow. He must have given them the verbal lashing of a lifetime for giving up the lead like that.

 

[Lunatik]

27 games of four or more goals against. Out of 61 games played.

Yeah, this 'system' needs some work.

Systems do not fix terrible defense (turnovers) and goaltending. Frankly we don't have the personnel to play a more defensive system. I know this is your subtle attempt to say fire Hartley, but what is the point when we don't have the players needed to play a more defensive style, or even stop a puck? Now before you go off claiming that I am saying Hartley is infallible, that is not what I am saying. I am saying we need to improve our roster or nothing will change.

 

[JPeeper]

Can't stop the tank.

 

[SKRusty]

Systems do not fix terrible defense (turnovers) and goaltending. Frankly we don't have the personnel to play a more defensive system. I know this is your subtle attempt to say fire Hartley, but what is the point when we don't have the players needed to play a more defensive style, or even stop a puck? Now before you go off claiming that I am saying Hartley is infallible, that is not what I am saying. I am saying we need to improve our roster or nothing will change.

Completely disagree. When Babcock can get that rag tag group to play better defense you know the issues in Calgary are due to the systems Hartley has employed.

I could go on all day about the poor PP, PK, or the underlying numbers but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

You can see the giveaways. You can see the over use of the stretch pass. Ferly, Colborne, Frolik, Backlund, Stajan, and Jooris are all capable of playing a very defensively responsible game.

I truly doubt Hartley is the coach come the draft.

The Flames had the game in hand and Wotherspoon and Nakladal only have 12 min played?

Brodie and Gio were on the ice for 2 of the Zibanejad goals and Gio and Nakladal were on for the thrid. Playing Gio and Brodie constantly for over 25 minutes a game will just wear them out. Calgary is out of the playoffs get these call-ups some roles to fill. Hartley is clueless.

 

[DFF]

Calgary is out of the playoffs get these call-ups some roles to fill. Hartley is clueless.

He wants to win to save his job. All coaches do.

The best way he knows is to play his best players.

Hartley is not a developmental coach. I agreed with you his days are numbered and he needs to take his special team coach with him (Gelinas?)

 

[TkachuckNotTkaczuk]

You know, I don't think Ortio was all that bad, he made some big saves but there was a lot of traffic around the net and in lanes. Our defense were caught out of position, they were getting caught up ice too many times and can't clear the front of the net to save our lives. He may have looked to let in a soft goal or two but really, was he able to pick up the shots with all the layers of traffic? Just think hanging that loss on him is unfair and probably why Hartley lost his **** after the game. The players weren't picking up their assignments all over the ice.

Going forward, that Brodie/Gio combination needs to be split up, they just aren't able to clean up out front and many times one or the other is pinching or up ice being caught leading to odd man rushes. We need a stay at home gritty defenseman to play with them to help clear out the front of the net imo. Think other teams have figured out this duo and their lack of size allows them to park in front of the net for long periods of time.

 

[Sparky93]

Systems do not fix terrible defense (turnovers) and goaltending. Frankly we don't have the personnel to play a more defensive system. I know this is your subtle attempt to say fire Hartley, but what is the point when we don't have the players needed to play a more defensive style, or even stop a puck? Now before you go off claiming that I am saying Hartley is infallible, that is not what I am saying. I am saying we need to improve our roster or nothing will change.

Defensive systems don't prevent turnovers, but having more than 2 guys on the right side of the blue line does prevent goals against. I'd also say the majority of the team is better suited to a more defensive system. We only have 6 guys on the team capable of playing a run and gun style. This cherry picking, pond hockey has to stop before it becomes detrimental to the kids development. The inability to play defense, is exactly the reason why the Oilers have been so horrible, for so long.

Seems like we're a lock to have another horrible season next year, so there's no better time for a coaching change, to implement a system.

 

[Anglesmith]

Defensive systems don't prevent turnovers, but having more than 2 guys on the right side of the blue line does prevent goals against. I'd also say the majority of the team is better suited to a more defensive system. We only have 6 guys on the team capable of playing a run and gun style. This cherry picking, pond hockey has to stop before it becomes detrimental to the kids development. The inability to play defense, is exactly the reason why the Oilers have been so horrible, for so long.

When do we ever not have a forward backchecking? I think our success last year came directly from having low pressure in the offensive zone in order to prevent odd-man rushes the other way.

 

[SKRusty]

You know, I don't think Ortio was all that bad, he made some big saves but there was a lot of traffic around the net and in lanes. Our defense were caught out of position, they were getting caught up ice too many times and can't clear the front of the net to save our lives. He may have looked to let in a soft goal or two but really, was he able to pick up the shots with all the layers of traffic? Just think hanging that loss on him is unfair and probably why Hartley lost his **** after the game. The players weren't picking up their assignments all over the ice.

Going forward, that Brodie/Gio combination needs to be split up, they just aren't able to clean up out front and many times one or the other is pinching or up ice being caught leading to odd man rushes. We need a stay at home gritty defenseman to play with them to help clear out the front of the net imo. Think other teams have figured out this duo and their lack of size allows them to park in front of the net for long periods of time.

It is quite simple Gio and Brodie are overused and when they need to be at their best in the third period they are exhausted.

Ortio played a good game. The first goal Zib scored, Ortio lost his stick through contact and was forced to stay low to cover the low shot. The second there was contact with Ortio and the third was a bang bang play Ortio had no chance on.

 

[Lunatik]

You know, I don't think Ortio was all that bad, he made some big saves but there was a lot of traffic around the net and in lanes. Our defense were caught out of position, they were getting caught up ice too many times and can't clear the front of the net to save our lives. He may have looked to let in a soft goal or two but really, was he able to pick up the shots with all the layers of traffic?

You could say this exact thing about Hiller every game too.

 

[moon*]

You know, I don't think Ortio was all that bad, he made some big saves but there was a lot of traffic around the net and in lanes. Our defense were caught out of position, they were getting caught up ice too many times and can't clear the front of the net to save our lives. He may have looked to let in a soft goal or two but really, was he able to pick up the shots with all the layers of traffic? Just think hanging that loss on him is unfair and probably why Hartley lost his **** after the game. The players weren't picking up their assignments all over the ice.

Ortio wasn't awful but he certainly wasn't good and a big concern is this great (first two periods) and terrible play (3rd) seems to be too much of a pattern for game both within games and seasons.

I still think you give him the majority of games down the stretch mainly because why not, but it is hard to see him as anything more than a back-up at the NHL levle and really that might be too much.

Hard to come up with enough excuses to justify .885 and 3.55 GAA. Those numbers are worse than Hiller and a 0-6 record, while not totally on him, doesn't do much to help.

Going forward, that Brodie/Gio combination needs to be split up, they just aren't able to clean up out front and many times one or the other is pinching or up ice being caught leading to odd man rushes. We need a stay at home gritty defenseman to play with them to help clear out the front of the net imo. Think other teams have figured out this duo and their lack of size allows them to park in front of the net for long periods of time.

An added issue is that is a weakness in Hamiltons game as well so you aren't fixing anything by adding him. I really don't understand why Gio is so bad in this area. It seems like he should be more than able to handle guys in front of the net but they both lose guys so often. Maybe it is that they are so worried about transitioning up the ice quickly that they ignore that aspect?

Either way sure would be nice to have a guy like Hamonic there to pair with Brodie as he doesn't have that issue at all.

 

[SKRusty]

An added issue is that is a weakness in Hamiltons game as well so you aren't fixing anything by adding him. I really don't understand why Gio is so bad in this area. It seems like he should be more than able to handle guys in front of the net but they both lose guys so often. Maybe it is that they are so worried about transitioning up the ice quickly that they ignore that aspect?

Either way sure would be nice to have a guy like Hamonic there to pair with Brodie as he doesn't have that issue at all.

The development of Hamilton aside. Gio should not be played for more than 24-25 minutes a night. Gio played 27:04 and Brodie played 28:31 against Ottawa.

Why? The Flames were up by 2 goals. The Flames were having a decent evening. Engelland and Hamilton were ok and when on the ice Wotherspoon was probably the best defensive player on the ice.

 

[TheHudlinator]

When do we ever not have a forward backchecking? I think our success last year came directly from having low pressure in the offensive zone in order to prevent odd-man rushes the other way.

I'd also say we caught a lot of teams off guard last year due to how much offense was driven by our top 4, this year you can see teams wingers tightly checking the defenseman which has really hurt our attack.

 

[moon*]

The development of Hamilton aside. Gio should not be played for more than 24-25 minutes a night. Gio played 27:04 and Brodie played 28:31 against Ottawa.

Why? The Flames were up by 2 goals. The Flames were having a decent evening. Engelland and Hamilton were ok and when on the ice Wotherspoon was probably the best defensive player on the ice.

I agree I am not sure why they are playing close to that many minutes when we are completely out of the play-offs and have no injuries on defense. Especially when as mentioned it wasn't like they were having a great game and you wanted to go with the "hot" hand.

 

[Sparky93]

When do we ever not have a forward backchecking? I think our success last year came directly from having low pressure in the offensive zone in order to prevent odd-man rushes the other way.

They back check, then they fly the zone immediately, looking for the stretch pass. Every team in the league knows what's coming. If a defenseman makes an error, they're left high and dry.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd also say we caught a lot of teams off guard last year due to how much offense was driven by our top 4, this year you can see teams wingers tightly checking the defenseman which has really hurt our attack.

We're only on pace for 17 fewer goals than last year, but we are on pace for 40 more against. The problem is mostly goals against and that problem is caused by everyone on the ice. In part that is due to more turnovers, many of which are caused by the way we attack. But much of it is deep in out own end, giveaways in the slot and in corners has climbed dramatically I think

 

[Dertell]

I don't believe turnovers influence the game as much as most people likes to talk about them, but when you have a team with a borderline addiction to the outlet pass zone exit strategy (w/ no center left to help defensively) and doesn't have any visible after-rush structure, you'll turnover the puck more often than you should, and you'll get hemmed in your zone even moreso.

 

[TheHudlinator]

We're only on pace for 17 fewer goals than last year, but we are on pace for 40 more against. The problem is mostly goals against and that problem is caused by everyone on the ice. In part that is due to more turnovers, many of which are caused by the way we attack. But much of it is deep in out own end, giveaways in the slot and in corners has climbed dramatically I think

True but I think it is the biggest reason for our pp struggling this year.

 

[Lunatik]

True but I think it is the biggest reason for our pp struggling this year.

we're on pace for only 3 or 4 fewer PP goals actually

 

[TheHudlinator]

we're on pace for only 3 or 4 fewer PP goals actually

Yes but we are down 2% while bringing yet another point threat, I'd say that there is clearly a big drop off on our pp this year. I'd say dropping from 15th pp to 29th is a a big drop off. I also think that management thought our pp would be a strength this year.

 

[Lunatik]

Yes but we are down 2% while bringing yet another point threat, I'd say that there is clearly a big drop off on our pp this year. I'd say dropping from 15th pp to 29th is a a big drop off. I also think that management thought our pp would be a strength this year.

it's still not really affecting overall goals (in terms of why we have fewer that last year), we are just getting more PP opportunities.

 

[TheHudlinator]

it's still not really affecting overall goals (in terms of why we have fewer that last year), we are just getting more PP opportunities.

Our pp is much worse overall and I think management thought they would be improving on last year, which is my point.