Value of: Ottawa getting their pick back (Colorado)?

[TheBradyBunch]

If the Avs retain the Sens pick, the Sens have no incentive to be good or bad. The only incentive is to build the best team for the future.

It follows, then, that if the Sens do reacquire their 1st, they would have the incentive to be bad (assuming that being bad next year would help them build a team for the future).

The Sens will not care about the position of their pick next year if they do not hold it. I really didnt think that needed to be pointed out but apparently it does.

 

[Hasbro]

If the Avs retain the Sens pick, the Sens have no incentive to be good or bad.

Spite and covering your ass aren't incentives?

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Spite and covering your ass aren't incentives?

Pick is gone. Our dumb GM traded it. Sucks, but it happened. If we can't get it back, you can't weep about it. Do you think with 20 games left in the season, the players are gonna be in the locker room saying "come on guys, we can't give Colorado a top 5 pick" ? No way, they don't care. They weren't the ones who did their job wrong.

I was pissed when I saw the Dorion traded away our 1st in November, and I thought we would be a playoff team. Now I'm even more pissed. But we don't have the pick. I hope it's Jack Hughes for your sake, and mine cause hopefully Dorion would get canned immediately.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I'll take the 4th overall if one of the two big wingers drop, and I'd add a couple of 2nd round picks (nashville's + ours in 2019).

 

[Hasbro]

Pick is gone. Our dumb GM traded it. Sucks, but it happened. If we can't get it back, you can't weep about it. Do you think with 20 games left in the season, the players are gonna be in the locker room saying "come on guys, we can't give Colorado a top 5 pick" ? No way, they don't care. They weren't the ones who did their job wrong.

I was pissed when I saw the Dorion traded away our 1st in November, and I thought we would be a playoff team. Now I'm even more pissed. But we don't have the pick. I hope it's Jack Hughes for your sake, and mine cause hopefully Dorion would get canned immediately.

I was specifically talking about Melnyk and Dorion trying to field a less sucky roster.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Trading for the pick increases the likelihood that Ottawa tanks which in itself increases the value of Ottawa's first. That means that the pick is more valuable if Ottawa owns it than if Colorado owns it. I can't see the pick being moved though because it's just too risky, and GMs hate making risky moves.

 

[Freudian]

Pick is gone. Our dumb GM traded it. Sucks, but it happened. If we can't get it back, you can't weep about it. Do you think with 20 games left in the season, the players are gonna be in the locker room saying "come on guys, we can't give Colorado a top 5 pick" ? No way, they don't care. They weren't the ones who did their job wrong.

I was pissed when I saw the Dorion traded away our 1st in November, and I thought we would be a playoff team. Now I'm even more pissed. But we don't have the pick. I hope it's Jack Hughes for your sake, and mine cause hopefully Dorion would get canned immediately.

Of course the rational thing would be to act as if the pick never existed but we're dealing with human nature here. No one wants to look bad and if Sens start to make bad decisions to either get their pick back (another irrational thought, it's not their pick anymore) or make moves to improve in the standings short term to reduce the value of the pick they might do more long term damage to the organization.

I don't know if Melnyk or Dorion are smart enough to be immune to the psychology of the situation. If Ottawa are desperate to get the pick back, Sakic should do all he can to exploit their desperation.

 

[Brett44]

I'll take the 4th overall if one of the two big wingers drop, and I'd add a couple of 2nd round picks (nashville's + ours in 2019).

I disagree totaly next year the draft will be stronger than this year.Kaapo Kakko please or Jack Hugues.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

 

[RandomAvsFan]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

Thats just a bad trade for the Avalanche. I'd pass easily. Not because Karlsson isn't a great player. I just think that where we are at organizationally 4 firsts is much, much more valuable to us.

IF we went after EK I'd want to take Ryan back to lessen the blow to our picks/prospects. But honestly I don't see us moving the assets to acquire him.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

Why does Erik Karlsson do that? He knows his value isn't as high without a contract. Why does he agree to sign an extension to inflate his value and do more damage to the future of the team he's about to spend the next 7/8 years with?

Not to mention that's way too much from Colorado. Sakic isn't doing that.

 

[Benttheknee]

I have to admit that being a Sens fan is miserable these days. They are clearly an epic disaster that have handcuffed themselves. The Colorado trade puts pressure on management to put an effort into fielding a competitive team to avoid giving Colorado a good pick when they should be into the pure rebuild phase.

The Sens are doomed for about 6 years.

 

[Avs44]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

Yeah....absolutely not. You want the Avs' unknown 2019 1st (10-20 range IMO), a likely top 5 pick in 2019 (which the Sens' pick will be if Karlsson is gone IMO), a top D prospect the Avs just took 4th overall, and the Avs' 16th overall pick this year? That's a crippling exchange for the Avs.


Don't think the Avs are giving the Sens their pick back. Best case scenario for the Sens is that Karlsson sticks around, in which case I think a healthy Karlsson + talented youngsters + talented, healthy forward corps together from the start of the season can have them in contention for a playoff spot.

 

[Freudian]

Avs would be better off wildly overpaying for John Carlsson in free agency ($10M/year) than crippling their rebuild by giving Sens a huge pile of assets for the privilege of paying Erik Karlsson $12M/year.

 

[pockets]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

This is awful for the Avs who are still rebuilding despite making the playoffs.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

Pick is gone. Our dumb GM traded it. Sucks, but it happened. If we can't get it back, you can't weep about it. Do you think with 20 games left in the season, the players are gonna be in the locker room saying "come on guys, we can't give Colorado a top 5 pick" ? No way, they don't care. They weren't the ones who did their job wrong.

I was pissed when I saw the Dorion traded away our 1st in November, and I thought we would be a playoff team. Now I'm even more pissed. But we don't have the pick. I hope it's Jack Hughes for your sake, and mine cause hopefully Dorion would get canned immediately.

What kind of Sens fan are you? Go cheer for another team you loser.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Thats just a bad trade for the Avalanche. I'd pass easily. Not because Karlsson isn't a great player. I just think that where we are at organizationally 4 firsts is much, much more valuable to us.

IF we went after EK I'd want to take Ryan back to lessen the blow to our picks/prospects. But honestly I don't see us moving the assets to acquire him.

This. We aren't Karlsson away from being a Cup contender. There are still question marks up and down the lineup, even though we have promising young players who should hopefully grow into various roles. We need to make sure that we aren't getting overly excited about squeaking into the playoffs this year and counting our chickens before they hatch. We also need to be prepared to pay the good young players who grow into the various roles, and should also be planning for the Seattle expansion draft (which I think is why Timmins ELC didn't start this season). Adding Karlsson at whatever ridiculous cap hit he "deserves" complicates both of those situations. I'd much rather use those 3 picks, keep Makar, and eventually be able to trade one (or more) of them for the pieces we need, when we know what we actually need to become a real Cup contender.

 

[tucker3434]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

I think that’s too much especially considering the Sens are going to value their 2019 1st more than any other in a Karlsson trade. It’s their best hedge. We go much past Makar and the Sens first and I’d bow out and let them try to craft a package around some contenders late 1st.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

why stop there why not the 2020 1st and 2021 first aswell?

 

[Hasbro]

I have to admit that being a Sens fan is miserable these days. They are clearly an epic disaster that have handcuffed themselves.

I do hope for the sake of Sens fans you get a new owner and the team bounces back...just not YET.

 

[ljb4]

Trade proposal I once made on the Sens board(slighty changed though).To be made in the offseason so Karlsson can sign an extension.

Ottawa
Karlsson with extension

Colorado
2019 Col 1st
2019 Ott 1st
Cale Makar
Who ever they draft with their pick in the 2018 draft.

There is no need to make this deal before the season starts. If I am Ottawa, I start the year with Karlsson, play the kids, and see where I am in January.

If I am the Avs, my best offer is Ottawa's 2019 first and third plus Barrie for Karlsson (with an extension in place) and Ryan.
I realize that is not enough value from the Send point if view so I don't see a trade happening.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

What kind of Sens fan are you? Go cheer for another team you loser.

Legitimately a lifelong sens fan.

I'm no loser, just a realist. What did I say that was so horrible? It sucks that we gave up the pick. But if we can't get it back, we have to move on. Can't worry about what kind of player Colorado gets with it.

Maybe you were upset when I mentioned how Dorion should be held accountable for his horrible work as GM. Not saying he should be fired as his hands are often tied, but he certainly did not earn a 3 year extension.

But I'll actually keep cheering for the sens, as I hope you do too. Thanks for the advice though!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I do hope for the sake of Sens fans you get a new owner and the team bounces back...just not YET.

Well, the rumor going around Ottawa is an ownership change this July. And those possible new owners have really deep pockets.

If it happens, Ottawa will not be a lotto pick. We'll keep Erik, Stone and our core...and perhaps even add to ensure we make the playoffs next year.

 

[tucker3434]

Well, the rumor going around Ottawa is an ownership change this July. And those possible new owners have really deep pockets.

If it happens, Ottawa will not be a lotto pick. We'll keep Erik, Stone and our core...and perhaps even add to ensure we make the playoffs next year.

Most of the NHL has filthy rich owners. If it was that easy to buy wins, everybody would do it.