Confirmed Trade: [OTT/TBL] Cedric Paquette, Braydon Coburn, and 2022 2nd for Marian Gaborik and Anders Nilsson

[ShaneinTpa]

A few clarifications perhaps would be good as follows:

1. My username should be a good indication of the team I cheer for. But, in case it isn't, Keon & Horton were Leafs. Not sure I need to go further on this.

2. My post was a lot more about the Senators offseason in general, and had very little to do with this specific trade between Ottawa & TBL. I also thought that was pretty obvious, but perhaps not. Once again, and for the record, I think this specific trade was good. I was just looking at the many moves made by Ottawa this offseason and trying to reverse engineer and figure out what the plan was while also wondering or analyzing how good that plan was.

3. There are many different ways to get veteran leadership, and nothing precludes a team from getting that leadership whether they trade for players at the top, middle or bottom of roster. Or, in other words, if a team trades for a better player, they can still get that leadership they need. Its not something exclusive to bottom of the roster players.

4. If a team trades for better players, they can also move those better players for picks just as easily, or potentially more easily. In other words, this is also not an unique benefit received only for bottom of the roster players. The same benefit can be obtained from players capable of playing higher up in the lineup, and predictably the return from those trades would be even better.

Maybe there's too much nuance here. Got to keep things simple I guess. Unfortunately, good versus bad seems to the only theme that can be absorbed way too often.

Your first part has nothing to do with the thread and was probably not necessary. I will tell you I not only know who Tim Horton was and Dave Keon is but I met both of them through my childhood mentor who played with them in the name of Bob Pulford.

So, that aside through your generalization you did address the trade as being seen through the rose colored glasses of a Tampa Bay fan. My response was simply to point out what these guys brought to the Ottawa table. I didn’t measure it against their other trades that were made as you did, nor did I attempt to project it against things that might’ve happened instead. Apparently you think that matters and that’s fine too. In the end the deal was a win-win for both teams.

 

[DearDiary]

Yet another cup contender in cap hell bailed out by a Canadian team. I guess there is no "they're screwed" scenario, they just keep sweetening bail out deals until someone bites. One day I'd like to see no team bite.

If you can't win a cup, you can at least feel good knowing you contributed to a cup win.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Your first part has nothing to do with the thread and was probably not necessary. I will tell you I not only know who Tim Horton was and Dave Keon is but I met both of them through my childhood mentor who played with them in the name of Bob Pulford.

So, that aside through your generalization you did address the trade as being seen through the rose colored glasses of a Tampa Bay fan. My response was simply to point out what these guys brought to the Ottawa table. I didn’t measure it against their other trades that were made as you did, nor did I attempt to project it against things that might’ve happened instead. Apparently you think that matters and that’s fine too. In the end the deal was a win-win for both teams.

You used the words "your younger players". That left me with the impression that you thought I was an Ottawa fan. If that was incorrect, then OK, my bad and I surmised incorrectly. No worries.

And, I'm glad you can see that I was taking a much wider angle or look at Ottawa's offseason moves, versus just this one specific trade between Ottawa & TBL (which I have mentioned probably half a dozen times was a good move).

In my mind, its also very relevant & important to look at individual moves within the context of the bigger picture. So, with this in mind, what needs were Ottawa trying to address, what was their strategy, was it a good (or the best) strategy, and how well did they execute their strategy. Those are the questions and thought processes that are important and that should be addressed. #482 (etc.) gets into that topic.

As I have stated, the benefits that people keep talking about would have been obtained by signing or trading for numerous other vets. So, in my mind, taking a much deeper dive than that is necessary.

Anyhow, looks like this has been beaten to death already. All the best to you and your family in the new year.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

4. If a team trades for better players, they can also move those better players for picks just as easily, or potentially more easily. In other words, this is also not an unique benefit received only for bottom of the roster players. The same benefit can be obtained from players capable of playing higher up in the lineup, and predictably the return from those trades would be even better.

Maybe there's too much nuance here. Got to keep things simple I guess. Unfortunately, good versus bad seems to the only theme that can be absorbed way too often.

A key thing to consider is the “better players “ you are talking about usually come in costing more money. We all know how that is with Sens owner Melnyk. For what he wants to spend money wise, the value of this deal for them is a winner.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

A key thing to consider is the “better players “ you are talking about usually come in costing more money. We all know how that is with Sens owner Melnyk. For what he wants to spend money wise, the value of this deal for them is a winner.

Melnyk has signed several free agents in the last 2 years. Another poster made this point so I'll copy the list: Dadonov, Galchenyuk, Peca, Shaw, Zub, Hainsey & Ennis. He spent good money on Dadonov ($5 m AAV). Gudbranson AAV is $4 m ($3 m in real $s).

So, its more a question of where you spend the money.

In the off-season, the GM, coaches, scouts get together to build a plan for the next year. They examine there weaknesses and define their needs and objectives. Trades & acquisitions are made within the context of the plan. Maybe that Gudbranson $4 m (AAV) plus the money from another marginal (questionable) trade nets you a good player that meets a strategic need? See #482.

So, its not just a question of whether this one particular trade or move was good, or good value. I have been trying to figure out what the plan is. At Center, they already had: White, Tierney, Anisimov & Paul. In the offseason they added Gachlenyuk, Paquette, & Stepan. It seems like they already had four (4) 3rd & 4th line level centers, but then they added three more. At defense, they already had Reilly, Zub and Jaros for the 3rd pair, but then added 3 more (J Brown, Gudbranson, and Coburn).

So how do these specific trades & acquisitions fit the plan? Was it a good plan? Could the money have been spent differently and generated better results? And early moves can impact (e.g., prevent) future moves, so mistakes at an early stage can compound themselves and turn out even worse in the end.

You selected point #4, but go back & read #2 versus getting hung up on the tangental stuff.

And, when you look at some the signings in the market this year, there was definitely low $, good value signings. This year was ideal for that & there may never be a better time to capitalize on market conditions.

 

[BurgoShark]

Gudbranson is only earning $3m this year

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Gudbranson is only earning $3m this year

OK, and thanks.

The point still stands in my mind though. If his (real $) salary is $1 m less than his AAV (which is what I used in my post), it doesn't change the point I was making at all.

 

[Halla]

insert that dumb and dumber meme " and completely redeem yourself!"

Stepan deal was terrible

this deal is solid

Ottawa still needs a new owner that actually cares about winning and not the bottom line

 

[OVO16]

Whats the Sens lineup now?

 

[BurgoShark]

OK, and thanks.

The point still stands in my mind though. If his (real $) salary is $1 m less than his AAV (which is what I used in my post), it doesn't change the point I was making at all.

All good. I wasn’t arguing. Just clarifying that one

 

[topshelf15]

Time to see what we have...Lots of kids with solid vets to hold the fort should some of them not be ready..First wave of kids to be given a long look would be the older prospects..Chalpik,Balcers,Brown ,AbramovETC..If they cant cut it...Move onto the next group..

 

[Qward]

Whats the Sens lineup now?

we will know better next week

 

[BurgoShark]

Time to see what we have...Lots of kids with solid vets to hold the fort should some of them not be ready..First wave of kids to be given a long look would be the older prospects..Chalpik,Balcers,Brown ,AbramovETC..If they cant cut it...Move onto the next group..

A couple of factors...

1 - Balcers and Chlapik need waivers. I think the team will take a very long look at both before sending either down

2 - Formenton, Abramov, Norris, Brown, Brannstrom and Batherson should be a lock to at least be in the taxi squad at least until the end of January. The team will want them training with the NHL team rather than sitting around waiting for the AHL to start

 

[Deen]

More collusion. B/S league. Close the damn loopholes already.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

More collusion. B/S league. Close the damn loopholes already.

Or the league should send you a copy of the cba agreed upon the PA and the Owners so you can be outraged about the actual facts.

 

[Picklepete]

More collusion. B/S league. Close the damn loopholes already.

Whaaa... Lol

 

[Miri]

So ottawa dumps money, gets functional players and a 2nd rounder?

How'd they get so good at GMing

The deal is Tampa gives them Cup if they win it again.

 

[Mikeaveli]

More collusion. B/S league. Close the damn loopholes already.

I agree. Teams shouldn't be allowed to trade players.

 

[Deen]

I agree. Teams shouldn't be allowed to trade players.

That's the key word here. When was the last time Gaborik laced up? 2018?

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Whats the Sens lineup now?

Which one, Sens A or Sens B? We've got enough to ice two of them.

 

[SensFactor]

Sens want their chip with some dip

 

[Adele Dazeem]

That's the key word here. When was the last time Gaborik laced up? 2018?

Gaborik can lace them up starting January 13th for all we know....

In any case loopholes exist in everything, it's not as egregious as you're making it out to be.

 

[Deen]

Gaborik can lace them up starting January 13th for all we know....

In any case loopholes exist in everything, it's not as egregious as you're making it out to be.

I've got a bridge to sell you if you're that gullible.

 

[mouser]

I still chuckle that so many people incorrectly believe Tampa acquiring Gaborik and Nilsson helped their cap situation.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I've got a bridge to sell you if you're that gullible.

As long as it's for a good price.