Proposal: OTT-PHI: Pinto for Bonk

[Hale The Villain]

D, Oliver Bonk

C, Shane Pinto


Flyers just dealt a young center for a RD and need a future top 2 center badly, maybe more than any other team in the league.

Sens may be dealing Chychrun shortly, there's a hole at 2nd pairing RD now and in the future, and they have a surplus of young centers in Stutzle, Norris, Pinto and Greig.

Pinto could also considered a bit of a deadline acquisition for a Flyers team significantly outperforming expectations and looking like a potential playoff team.

He's not needed this year for the Sens, who are significantly underperforming expectations and have no chance of making the playoffs.

Thoughts?

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[TeamRenzo]

I don't see Ott making this trade

 

[LeProspector]

Fair deal. Bonk is probably a couple years away.

 

[bert]

Ottawa badly needs Pinto they have no right handed centermen. He fits the core age group better and has established himself. Bonk while a solid prospect has way more risk. Philly would need a significant add for me as a sens fan to consider it.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ottawa is not moving Pinto for Bonk.

 

[Sting]

This seems really bad value for Ottawa. Pinto is worth more.

 

[Hale The Villain]

This seems really bad value for Ottawa. Pinto is worth more.

Bonk is a two-way right-handed defenseman with 44 points in 33 games in the OHL at 18.

Potential top 4 RD for a potential 2nd line C is a fair swap IMO.

 

[hamzarocks]

Bad deal for flyers

Bonk has #2/3D potential

Pinto I dont see better than a 40-45 pt good PK 3C

 

[Hale The Villain]

Bad deal for flyers

Bonk has #2/3D potential

Pinto I dont see better than a 40-45 pt good PK 3C

Frankly I have the same view of Pinto, but I think Bonk's skating may limit his upside to more of a good 2nd pairing defenseman.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Bonk is a two-way right-handed defenseman with 44 points in 33 games in the OHL at 18.

Potential top 4 RD for a potential 2nd line C is a fair swap IMO.

You're using the word 'potential' very loosely at best.

 

[tictactoe]

I mean Flyers are 2pts away from NYR for #1 in Metro.
I want to see how this group does long term.

We have Cates, Brink, Foerster, Frost developing. Does not mean I do not like Pinto.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You're using the word 'potential' very loosely at best.

If you don't think Oliver Bonk has top 4 potential, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[KevinRedkey]

If you don't think Oliver Bonk has top 4 potential, I don't know what to tell you.

If you think that's what I said, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Hale The Villain]

If you think that's what I said, I don't know what to tell you.

Wait, so your problem with my post was saying that Pinto has 2nd line center potential?

 

[KevinRedkey]

Wait, so your problem with my post was saying that Pinto has 2nd line center potential?

Bonk doesn't have the realistic upside to make the gamble worth giving up Pinto. Pinto is significantly further along than Bonk, and without the potential for a 'home run', Pinto holds more value. My gripe was the use of potential, without considering how far along they are to actually reaching it.

 

[GCK]

D, Oliver Bonk

C, Shane Pinto


Flyers just dealt a young center for a RD and need a future top 2 center badly, maybe more than any other team in the league.

Sens may be dealing Chychrun shortly, there's a hole at 2nd pairing RD now and in the future, and they have a surplus of young centers in Stutzle, Norris, Pinto and Greig.

Pinto could also considered a bit of a deadline acquisition for a Flyers team significantly outperforming expectations and looking like a potential playoff team.

He's not needed this year for the Sens, who are significantly underperforming expectations and have no chance of making the playoffs.

Thoughts?

Terrible for Ottawa.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Bonk doesn't have the realistic upside to make the gamble worth giving up Pinto. Pinto is significantly further along than Bonk, and without the potential for a 'home run', Pinto holds more value. My gripe was the use of potential, without considering how far along they are to actually reaching it.

Bonk has similar upside to someone like Zub, but with a bit more offense.

Pinto is further along in development, but I don't know if he has more upside.

I'd trade a 40-50 point two-way 2nd line center for a 30-40 point two-way 2nd pairing RD, which I think is a fair projection for both players.

 

[majormajor]

Whether it's fair on value is another question, but more fundamentally it's a bad move for the Senators. They're the worst 5v5 defensive team in the NHL, largely because of their one-way forwards. They need Pinto to develop into that two-way force who takes hard minutes. They can't trade him.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Whether it's fair on value is another question, but more fundamentally it's a bad move for the Senators. They're the worst 5v5 defensive team in the NHL, largely because of their one-way forwards. They need Pinto to develop into that two-way force who takes hard minutes. They can't trade him.

You know what would help prevent goals? A quality shutdown RD.

Sens have Zub and then nothing besides JBD, who is a bottom pairing guy.

 

[majormajor]

You know what would help prevent goals? A quality shutdown RD.

Sens have Zub and then nothing besides JBD, who is a bottom pairing guy.

Agreed, they should trade one of their one way forwards for a Pesce type defender.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't think the value is actually terrible far off. A top RHD prospect for a young, emerging potential Top-6 Center is certainly in the right ballpark.

But i'm not sure it really works great for either team in terms of timelines. I don't think the Flyers are necessarily in a big hurry to get "older", even in minor increments. And on the other end, Bonk is probably a lot further off than what the Senators would likely prefer in a RHD where they need help now more than a few years from now. Especially since they could very much use Pinto right now as well.

So while the value isn't necessarily bad, i don't think either team actually pulls the trigger on this.

 

[SpezDispenser]

No deal

 

[dumbdick]

Pinto I dont see better than a 40-45 pt good PK 3C

He scored 20 goals as a rookie coming off an entire lost sesson due to injury.

Do most rookies that score 20 goals top out at 40-45 points?

Is a 5-10 point improvement on rookie production a good-faith career projection?

How many viewings are you basing that on?

 

[biturbo19]

He scored 20 goals as a rookie coming off an entire lost sesson due to injury.

Do most rookies that score 20 goals top out at 40-45 points?

Is a 5-10 point improvement on rookie production a good-faith career projection?

How many viewings are you basing that on?

To be completely fair and transparent about it though...that 20G - 35Pt "Rookie Season" was while playing de facto Top-6 Minutes with Top-6 linemates. Which contextually, is a bit less impressive.

There are also plenty of players who are better checkers and goal-scorers than playmakers who do settle in as 20G 30-40pt middle-sixers or just straight up 3rd line types. I don't think that's the likely outcome for Pinto, but it's not completely implausible that he'd stall out as something like that. Development isn't always linear. Scoring 20G as a rookie doesn't mean that he's going to score 5 more goals per year until he's a 40G scorer for instance. He's got a good enough shot that you can probably expect a little bit of further growth there, but without more growth as a playmaker, he's always going to have his production "capped" pretty firmly at a less than "Ideal Top-6" level. That's a big area of projection that remains for Pinto, and how you view his trajectory in that aspect is key to whether you think he's going to turn into a true Top-6C or plateau as more of a 3rd Line or Middle-6 guy.

 

[JRichard]

I could see a Phi-Ott pretty big deal but only during off-season as Ott is in no rush bc they are out of it and Philly doesnt want to move bc they look like they will play in late April.

Can Philly afford to pay Tippett, give Hart a decent raise from his 4 mil while still paying 9 mil on Hayes-Petersen-DeAngelo?