Proposal: OTT - CAL

[The Devilish Buffoon]

There are two players I could see us targeting from Calgary: Giordano and Backlund.

Tkachuk likely won’t be traded (doing so would be a huge mistake) and Ottawa should not have interest in Monahan. Somehow, though, every proposal is for one of these guys.

 

[Taytro]

I'd say the value is fair ish, maybe some Calgary fans wont like the pieces but they do have value. If I'm Ottawa, I wouldn't trade for Matty, I don't think they neeed another player of that archetype. Typically only room for one of those guys per team IMO.

I'd also say CGY, not CAL, made me think Californi for some reason.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Garbage.

Stutzle or nothing. Ridiculous package.

Lol Jimmy Stü > Either Tkachuk.

Either way, I think the only way Matthew ends up in Ottawa is if it's in a 3 way trade with Buffalo with Eichel going to CGY and a ton of players/picks/prospects (mostly From Ottawa) going to Buffalo.

Ottawa has a ton of pieces they can trade (excluding Chabot/Tkachuk/Stützle/Sanderson), but none of them would really help CGY take that next step. Eichel is a different story. Seems like most CGY fans would be willing to trade Tkachuk if Eichel was coming back. Maybe they add 12th+Zary to make it happen.

Buffalo asked for at least 4 1sts or recent 1sts for Eichel. If Ottawa sends 10th overall+Brannstrom/Thomson/JBD along with some other pieces for Tkachuk, CGY could flip some of those pieces to Buffalo for Eichel.

Buffalo wouldn't hate it as they'd be shipping Eichel out West, and CGY the same by sending Tkachuk to the East.

The odds of a deal like this happening are very slim even though there may be a fit there. Otherwise, I don't see CGY taking futures for Tkachuk and Ottawa should not be trading Stützle/Sanderson/Norris right now.

 

[cwede]

Actually IMHO, not really enough to Calgary,
We all play that game sometimes, cobble together a bundle of B+/A- pieces to propose a 'hockey trade' to bring back a core piece

but also the Tkachuk unhappy in Calgary chatter has been debunked
As Friedman wrote, all the other recent storylines- OEL trade opportunity, Dougie can shop around, etc have had verified validation.

 

[Double Dion]

Lol Jimmy Stü > Either Tkachuk.

Either way, I think the only way Matthew ends up in Ottawa is if it's in a 3 way trade with Buffalo with Eichel going to CGY and a ton of players/picks/prospects (mostly From Ottawa) going to Buffalo.

Ottawa has a ton of pieces they can trade (excluding Chabot/Tkachuk/Stützle/Sanderson), but none of them would really help CGY take that next step. Eichel is a different story. Seems like most CGY fans would be willing to trade Tkachuk if Eichel was coming back. Maybe they add 12th+Zary to make it happen.

Buffalo asked for at least 4 1sts or recent 1sts for Eichel. If Ottawa sends 10th overall+Brannstrom/Thomson/JBD along with some other pieces for Tkachuk, CGY could flip some of those pieces to Buffalo for Eichel.

Buffalo wouldn't hate it as they'd be shipping Eichel out West, and CGY the same by sending Tkachuk to the East.

The odds of a deal like this happening are very slim even though there may be a fit there. Otherwise, I don't see CGY taking futures for Tkachuk and Ottawa should not be trading Stützle/Sanderson/Norris right now.

As usual on HF the new toy is the most exciting. If you dig into what each player did in their draft year you'll see Stutzle clearly had the third best season of the three players. Matthew had the best season offensively, defensively and led the league in penalties drawn. Brady had the 2nd best offensive season, the 2nd best defensive season and was the most physical player. Stutzle was the third best player in every single measurable way.

Does that mean he won't ever be the best player? Of course not, but it's not trending that way now.

I wouldn't be adding anything significant to Tkachuk for Eichel. Certainly not Zary and certainly not #12. If that means we don't get him I'm perfectly fine with that as I don't love the player. He makes 10M, has one 30 goal season and isn't as good as people think he is. I'd rather target a RS RW for Tkachuk (Marner) or deal him for futures.

I do love Sanderson and Stutzle. I get not wanting to deal either player. Brannstrom is a nothing in a deal for an elite player. You realize this as you're unwilling to move any of the guys who would be legitimate core pieces down the road. A potential bottom 4 defenseman doesn't do anything for us.

 

[Bileur]

Would you take Calgary’s 1st (12th overall)
, 2022 2nd and Valimaki for Brady?

Depends on the situation I guess.

Right now I’d certainly want more, but then a few years ago the Sens painted themselves into a corner and accepted a 2nd and Brannstrom for Stone who is better than either Tkachuk. A 1st, 2nd and Valimaki looks pretty good in comparison.

Surely you can see why a potential bottom pairing defenseman and a pick in a weak draft won't get you Matt Tkachuk. Your guy before said he wouldn't trade Brady for that package and Matthew is a fair bit better than Brady offensively, defensively and at drawing penalties.

Last part isn’t factually correct

NHL Stats

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Sanderson + First or Stutzle and I’m interested.

not even close for this proposal though.

 

[Double Dion]

Depends on the situation I guess.

Right now I’d certainly want more, but then a few years ago the Sens painted themselves into a corner and accepted a 2nd and Brannstrom for Stone who is better than either Tkachuk. A 1st, 2nd and Valimaki looks pretty good in comparison.




Last part isn’t factually correct

NHL Stats

It is factually correct. You used a 3 year sample. I was talking about their rookie seasons in isolation. The post was more of a response to the other posters suggestion that Stutzle was better than both Tkachuk brothers. He isn't at the same age. It's far closer between Matthew and Brady than the counting stats would lead you to believe. Brady does a lot of thinga very well.

 

[Double Dion]

Sanderson + First or Stutzle and I’m interested.

not even close for this proposal though.

Yup. I agree with you. 2 quarters and a nickel for a dollar isn't a good deal for us.

 

[Bileur]

It is factually correct. You used a 3 year sample. I was talking about their rookie seasons in isolation.

No you weren’t, here’s what you said:

Surely you can see why a potential bottom pairing defenseman and a pick in a weak draft won't get you Matt Tkachuk. Your guy before said he wouldn't trade Brady for that package and Matthew is a fair bit better than Brady offensively, defensively and at drawing penalties.

Nothing in there comparing rookie seasons. In fact it’s clear you’re talking about currently.

If you want to compare just current season, Brady blows Matthew out of the water.

NHL Stats

I thought I’d use a wider sample to make the comparison more fair.

Matthew drew an insane amount of penalties his first two years no doubt but since he came into the league Brady has drawn more.

The post was more of a response to the other posters suggestion that Stutzle was better than both Tkachuk brothers. He isn't at the same age. It's far closer between Matthew and Brady than the counting stats would lead you to believe. Brady does a lot of thinga very well.

Again, no it wasn’t. You were responding to this:

well that’s easy: no

Which in turn was a response to this:

Not a fan of Brannstrom. Let's talk about your other much larger young defenseman. That and the 1st. That's what I'd want.

That exchange wasn’t about rookie years and even less about Stutzle. Heck the post saying Stutzle was better than either Tkachuk came after the post I responded to.

Speaking of “typical HF” why not just admit you were wrong about that? Matthew is still more productive offensively and better defensively.

 

[Double Dion]

No you weren’t, here’s what you said:



Nothing in there comparing rookie seasons. In fact it’s clear you’re talking about currently.

If you want to compare just current season, Brady blows Matthew out of the water.

NHL Stats

I thought I’d use a wider sample to make the comparison more fair.

Matthew drew an insane amount of penalties his first two years no doubt but since he came into the league Brady has drawn more.



Again, no it wasn’t. You were responding to this:



Which in turn was a response to this:



That exchange wasn’t about rookie years and even less about Stutzle. Heck the post saying Stutzle was better than either Tkachuk came after the post I responded to.

Speaking of “typical HF” why not just admit you were wrong about that? Matthew is still more productive offensively and better defensively.

I thought you quoted my more recent post about their rookie seasons. My bad for not reading more carefully. The fact remains that to this point in their careers (first 3 seasons) Matt drew more penalties and its even more pronounced if you're looking at rookie seasons.

Stutzle is the third best player of the group isolating rookie seasons to make the comparison fair. Hard to compare 3 season trends when one of the players has only played one season.

 

[SensFactor]

Nothing against Matthew but I don't want more than one Tkachuk in Ottawa. Brady will be the next captain of the team if everything falls into place.

 

[Hockeyholic]

If Ottawa wanted Matthew Tkachuk, I think Chabot at minimum would need to go the other way.

 

[Double Dion]

If Ottawa wanted Matthew Tkachuk, I think Chabot at minimum would need to go the other way.

Ottawa has lots of good pieces to get a deal done if they wanted to. Wouldn't need to be Chabot. Sanderson and something or Stutzle straight up would be fine. Definitely not a deal there with the spare parts listed in the OP.

 

[Ser Grogu]

CAL? We found Friedge's HF account.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

If Ottawa wanted Matthew Tkachuk, I think Chabot at minimum would need to go the other way.

What's Calgary adding to that package? Chabot's value is >> Matthew Tkachuk

 

[TSA0402]

If Ottawa wanted Matthew Tkachuk, I think Chabot at minimum would need to go the other way.

Easiest way to put this, Ottawa would be fools not to want him. But you look at his contract status, his QO (9 million) with his current performance, and do you really want to trade 2 blue chip pieces for him?

Even if he bounces back scores a bit more he is a top line player being paid very well and you are losing two likely important young pieces. This case Sanderson and 10th overall. Its an obvious no.

 

[Double Dion]

Easiest way to put this, Ottawa would be fools not to want him. But you look at his contract status, his QO (9 million) with his current performance, and do you really want to trade 2 blue chip pieces for him?

Even if he bounces back scores a bit more he is a top line player being paid very well and you are losing two likely important young pieces. This case Sanderson and 10th overall. Its an obvious no.

Sanderson is important. 10OA isn't going to be a core piece this year most likely. Even a player like Beniers who is 1 or 2 on most boards is likely a middle 6 center. I know I'd rather have Ottawa's 22 or 23 first by far. I wouldn't be trading either of those picks. 10OA this year probably gets you a player like JBD or Zary, not a Sanderson.

 

[TSA0402]

Sanderson is important. 10OA isn't going to be a core piece this year most likely. Even a player like Beniers who is 1 or 2 on most boards is likely a middle 6 center. I know I'd rather have Ottawa's 22 or 23 first by far. I wouldn't be trading either of those picks. 10OA this year probably gets you a player like JBD or Zary, not a Sanderson.

You're right Sanderson is important. In fact I doubt I'd trade him alone for Tkachuk. Considering we already have one we have to pay.

The draft is weak on gamebreaking talent. I don't think there ever has been a draft where the likely ceiling of the top 2-5 picks is middle six forward - mid-pairing defenseman, this one is no different. TBH I get why you don't want to do the deal, I guess it works out cause its an easy no for me too(Brann + 10).

 

[Double Dion]

You're right Sanderson is important. In fact I doubt I'd trade him alone for Tkachuk. Considering we already have one we have to pay.

The draft is weak on gamebreaking talent. I don't think there ever has been a draft where the likely ceiling of the top 2-5 picks is middle six forward - mid-pairing defenseman, this one is no different. TBH I get why you don't want to do the deal, I guess it works out cause its an easy no for me too(Brann + 10).

The Yakupov/Murray year didn't even have a middle 6 forward in the top 10 picks. 1 4th liner and busts otherwise. Have to go to Forsberg at 12 or Gaudreau in the 4th round to find a first line player. I get your point though. Someone will emerge, but it's not like the next 2 years where you'll find 15 guys who are top 6 in the first round.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The Yakupov/Murray year didn't even have a middle 6 forward in the top 10 picks. 1 4th liner and busts otherwise. Have to go to Forsberg at 12 or Gaudreau in the 4th round to find a first line player. I get your point though. Someone will emerge, but it's not like the next 2 years where you'll find 15 guys who are top 6 in the first round.

Gaudreau was a 2011 pick

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Pretty easy no from Calgary, would you trade Brady for Valimaki and #12?
Tkachuk rumors were debunked by multiple reliable sources including Friedman. He's not for trade

 

[TSA0402]

The Yakupov/Murray year didn't even have a middle 6 forward in the top 10 picks. 1 4th liner and busts otherwise. Have to go to Forsberg at 12 or Gaudreau in the 4th round to find a first line player. I get your point though. Someone will emerge, but it's not like the next 2 years where you'll find 15 guys who are top 6 in the first round.

Morgan Rielly was the 4th or 5th overall pick. Kills me to say but his point totals, that seems top pairing material. Ryan Murray ceiling was closer to Chris Pronger than Radko Gudas. In fact if he wasn't injured all the time as a young player, I'd say he would be a top pairing guy right now. Yakupov was compared more to Kovalchuk or Semin than he was Ilya Zubov. He was supposed to have gamebreaking talent.

Also that was probably one of the worst drafts in a 10-15 year span? There was obvious top tier potential in that draft. Forsberg was top tier that was chosen later to add to it.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

What’s comical to me is that this is almost fully accepted by Ottawa fans but Monahan alone isn’t worth the 10OA.

 

[Bileur]

What’s comical to me is that this is almost fully accepted by Ottawa fans but Monahan alone isn’t worth the 10OA.

I thought the consensus was that Sens fans didn’t want to give the 10th for Monahan. That’s not the same as saying he wouldn’t have that value elsewhere. Monahan just isn’t want Sens fans are looking to add.