OT: Other Sports aka BRONCOS WON THE SUPER BOWL!!! BRONCOS OFFSEASON!!

[LazRNN]

Maybe Denver should let them then.

$12M per for a guy who's played 7 games is a lot. And it's risky.

I agree. I don't mind that kind of contract if it's structured so he can be cut in one or two seasons, but if it's a longer commitment I'd probably prefer RG3 on a cheap "prove it" deal. Part of the problem with RG3 in Washington was Daniel Snyder and there's nothing like that going on in Denver.

I haven't seen a good argument that shows why Brock's 7 games is better than Foles, Kaepernick or RG3's sample sizes when their stock was highest.

 

[LazRNN]

Oz's ceiling is Brian Griese? I just don't see how you come up with that opinion. Griese was awful and had no arm. Brock has a canon, he has more physical talent than Griese could dream of. If his receivers could hang onto the ball or the Oline could block...his 6 game stint would have left everyone feeling like he was the second coming.

Brock's ceiling is high, he's a boom or bust player.

Griese had a great injury shortened season in 2000 which had most people believing he was terrific. It was better than Brock's 7 games.

 

[Iceberg]

Griese had a great injury shortened season in 2000 which had most people believing he was terrific. It was better than Brock's 7 games.

During those years we always had good o-line play and strong running game, iirc.

 

[Bonzai12]

I haven't seen a good argument that shows why Brock's 7 games is better than Foles, Kaepernick or RG3's sample sizes when their stock was highest.

I would just say that Brock hasn't really even been given a legitimate chance in his time in Denver. He did get the starting nod for those 7 games, but I think it's extremely naive to judge how his career is going to progress based on playing the middle 7 games of an NFL season.

Each one of the guys you mentioned had essentially been given the starting jobs in training camp or entered camp as the #1. Brock hasn't had that luxury and that puts him at a disadvantage to every single guy you listed.

Argument could be made that he "lost" his job to Peyton at the end of the year, but I'm not fully convinced of that. I think if you asked all of us in week 10, 90% would say this was Peyton's last year. And I think it was inevitable they were going to play him out of respect to Manning and to inspire both the team and the QB for a Super Bowl run. Brock could have throw for 400 yards in those games and I think they still would have gone back to Manning.

I guess my main argument is that without a full training camp and preparation, you can't judge Brock. The physical tools are there, but the comfort and rhythm was not. Those things come with time and reps. Peyton Manning didn't do him any favors in this area, either. I think all we can focus on at this point is the physical tools, which nobody really doubts. I'm pretty intrigued to see what Brock can do with all the reps in a camp or a legitimate open competition at QB.

 

[Iceberg]

I agree. I don't mind that kind of contract if it's structured so he can be cut in one or two seasons, but if it's a longer commitment I'd probably prefer RG3 on a cheap "prove it" deal. Part of the problem with RG3 in Washington was Daniel Snyder and there's nothing like that going on in Denver.

I haven't seen a good argument that shows why Brock's 7 games is better than Foles, Kaepernick or RG3's sample sizes when their stock was highest.

I don't think anyone is arguing that.

 

[Hasbro]

Bad news is Brock is the best option next year.

 

[5280]

Bad news is Brock is the best option next year.

Yeah this is what it boils down to for me.

 

[LazRNN]

I don't think anyone is arguing that.

It's not hard to find that. Just look how many people are arguing that the Broncos have no choice but to pay Brock whatever he's asking for. There's a soundbite where Willie McGinnest and Nate Burleson were arguing that on the NFL network, and plenty of fans are. We're not talking $12 a year range, there's plenty that feel paying $15 to $20 Million is justified.

I would just say that Brock hasn't really even been given a legitimate chance in his time in Denver. He did get the starting nod for those 7 games, but I think it's extremely naive to judge how his career is going to progress based on playing the middle 7 games of an NFL season.

Each one of the guys you mentioned had essentially been given the starting jobs in training camp or entered camp as the #1. Brock hasn't had that luxury and that puts him at a disadvantage to every single guy you listed.

None of this addresses the question at hand. I 100% agree Brock deserves a chance. The #1 option for the Broncos is giving Brock a chance. Handing over a fat contract is not a chance, that is anointing him the QB of the future. It all depends on if Brock is willing to sign a contract where he'll have to prove he's just that and the Broncos can get out if his stock falls like the other players I brought up. If he does, there's really no question here... the Broncos should be happy to have him sign it and give him a chance.

I guess my main argument is that without a full training camp and preparation, you can't judge Brock. The physical tools are there, but the comfort and rhythm was not. Those things come with time and reps. Peyton Manning didn't do him any favors in this area, either. I think all we can focus on at this point is the physical tools, which nobody really doubts. I'm pretty intrigued to see what Brock can do with all the reps in a camp or a legitimate open competition at QB.

Again, none of this really contradicts my point. It goes both ways. I'm not "judging" Brock here. I'm saying, pretty much exactly like you are, that he's an unknown. Handing him a big contract that doesn't allow an out after a year or two is "judging" him... it's judging that he's the QB of the future. I'm saying that isn't known yet and he needs to be signed to a deal that makes him prove it and doesn't penalize the Broncos if he doesn't.

Bad news is Brock is the best option next year.

Brock is the best option at the right price. Overpaying him isn't the best option, unless you are convinced he's going to become an elite QB.

 

[Hasbro]

I don't know, more upfront could make him an easier cut down the road.

 

[Bonzai12]

None of this addresses the question at hand. I 100% agree Brock deserves a chance. The #1 option for the Broncos is giving Brock a chance. Handing over a fat contract is not a chance, that is anointing him the QB of the future. It all depends on if Brock is willing to sign a contract where he'll have to prove he's just that and the Broncos can get out if his stock falls like the other players I brought up. If he does, there's really no question here... the Broncos should be happy to have him sign it and give him a chance.

Again, none of this really contradicts my point. It goes both ways. I'm not "judging" Brock here. I'm saying, pretty much exactly like you are, that he's an unknown. Handing him a big contract that doesn't allow an out after a year or two is "judging" him... it's judging that he's the QB of the future. I'm saying that isn't known yet and he needs to be signed to a deal that makes him prove it and doesn't penalize the Broncos if he doesn't.

Is it a point, or a question?

Like iceberg said, I don't think anyone is saying Brock had a better season than Foles, Kaepernick, or RG III.

I'd just say that Brock probably deserves more based on potential right now than any of those guys. Sure they had great seasons but since then they've fizzled. Brock's still 25 years young. I don't think anyone realistically thinks any of those 3 guys will post their career best numbers again in the near future.

Brock's probably the best "potential" and young QB on the market. Someone will not hesitate to give him $15M. Sure, Broncos mgmt could give him $8-$10M a year on the premises that maybe he's going to suck, but I guarantee you his agent is saying "we need to get $14-$16 because you're going to be a hell of a player. Teams rarely bump a guy mid-contract, especially if they are up against the cap like the Broncos somewhat are. The beauty of negotiations. Brock has an enormous amount of leverage right now. If they sign him before UFA begins, they're going to have to give him close to market value. As someone else stated, going rate for a decent QB in this league is $12M. It's just an expensive position....

 

[Bonzai12]

dang the Rams cut James Laurinaitis, Chris Long, Jared Cook

I'd take any three of them in a heartbeat. Cook would look great here.

 

[InjuredChoker]

can long play on the interior?

could be decent malik replacement if he comes relatively cheap.

 

[LazRNN]

Is it a point, or a question?

Every question mark has a point! Or something like that...

Like iceberg said, I don't think anyone is saying Brock had a better season than Foles, Kaepernick, or RG III.

Maybe not everyone is saying that, but yeah, there are people saying that...

I'd just say that Brock probably deserves more based on potential right now than any of those guys. Sure they had great seasons but since then they've fizzled. Brock's still 25 years young. I don't think anyone realistically thinks any of those 3 guys will post their career best numbers again in the near future.

Brock's probably the best "potential" and young QB on the market. Someone will not hesitate to give him $15M. Sure, Broncos mgmt could give him $8-$10M a year on the premises that maybe he's going to suck, but I guarantee you his agent is saying "we need to get $14-$16 because you're going to be a hell of a player. Teams rarely bump a guy mid-contract, especially if they are up against the cap like the Broncos somewhat are. The beauty of negotiations. Brock has an enormous amount of leverage right now. If they sign him before UFA begins, they're going to have to give him close to market value. As someone else stated, going rate for a decent QB in this league is $12M. It's just an expensive position....

This is pretty much what it all boils down to. Brock has some leverage because of the current QB market, Elway has some leverage because this is a Super Bowl team and he's cultivated a winning culture that Brock has been a part of for four years. He might be able to get that $14-16 million, and the question is should Elway match if that's the price? I'd say no, but I'm sure many would argue yes. If the going rate for a decent QB is $12 million I don't see any reason to go higher than that.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

I'm sorry this just isn't a fair assessment of RG3. A healthy RG3 has exponentially more upside than Osweiler. Osweiler's ceiling is a Brian Griese, whereas RG3 has a Russell Wilson ceiling. I think people conveniently forget that he posted a 3200 passing yard, 20TD, 102.3 QB rating season as a rookie as well as 815 yards rushing and another 7 rushing TDs. And led a poor Redskins team to the playoffs. Those aren't exactly bad numbers. After that he was forced to play hurt and it showed, he is finally healthy, and I think these numbers are achievable once again. Maybe a little less rushing, but a little more passing.

And he doesn't have an attitude problem, not sure where you pulled that from. He got pissed off because he wasn't ever given a fair opportunity by Gruden to become the starter. Gruden hated him from the day he took over and never gave up the grudge. I'd be frustrated as well if I was never given a proper shot to earn my position.

Lets be straight I'm not advocating that we should sign RG3 and make him the starter and let Brock go. All I'm saying is that RG3 is not a bad QB, and he has a lot of potential. And I'd be very interested to watch a RG3 vs Oz training camp battle. I personally think RG3 could beat him out.

He put up those numbers before the knee, ankle, neck and concussions. There is no guarantee he's going to be able to put up those numbers again. As for LR issues, he got 1 coach fired, nearly had his 2nd coach fired, publicly called out teammates even when he was struggling himself. Gruden gave him a fair shot he just got hurt and wasn't good enough to return until both Cousins and McCoy got hurt. And then he couldn't beat them out this past season.

Could he turn it all around, sure. I have nothing against him. I just think he's too much of a risk for us. Brock is a risk too. But better to risk with someone you know than someone else's leftovers.

Regardless, I'm 200% sure Kubiak and Elway will get a good read on him from talking to Mike Shanahan. If Shanny gives rave reviews about the kid, he'll be in play as an alternate to Brock.

If they rely on Shanny, then no way does he come here. If memory serves, Shanny didn't want RG3 in the first place. He wanted to keep the picks and draft Cousins.

$12M per is "taking less"?

Considering Houston, Cleveland, Philly or LA might give him 15-18+...yes. 12 would be a steal in this market. And with the cap going up 12 million it would be a wash.

Griese's skillset was so vastly different from Brock that I don't even think you can compare the two

Yup. Brock has a stronger arm is is a heckuva lot more mobile. Also seems to be a better teammate. He does need to work on the fact he holds the ball too long and some of the leadership aspects. But those come with experience.

Listen, Brock is a risk and it could blow up in our faces. But I'd rather go with the guy that seemingly has the support of the locker room. Like I said, gamble with the guy we know rather than the one we don't.

 

[McMetal]

Bad news is Brock is the best option next year.

Is that really bad news? He'll be cheaper than an established QB, knows the offense and the players, and didn't show any big warning flags in his starts this year. What's not to like as long as he's not vastly overpaid?

 

[Hennessy]

Bad news is Brock is the best option next year.

And every year.

 

[Bonzai12]

Brandon Marshall finally got the screws taken out of his foot from an earlier surgery. One of the screws broke though and they had to leave it in his foot. Yowsers I can only imagine what that feels like. The price these guys pay is brutal.

 

[anleva]

...

This is pretty much what it all boils down to. Brock has some leverage because of the current QB market, Elway has some leverage because this is a Super Bowl team and he's cultivated a winning culture that Brock has been a part of for four years. He might be able to get that $14-16 million, and the question is should Elway match if that's the price? I'd say no, but I'm sure many would argue yes. If the going rate for a decent QB is $12 million I don't see any reason to go higher than that.

I am with you. I would not want to go above 12M for Brock, though I'm sure someone will. Still too much of a question mark and the higher you go the more you reduce the ability to resign defensive players.

The best the Broncos could do with their off-season options is to make a below average NFL offense average or optimistically slightly above. However they have a championship level defense. Do all you can to keep the defense at that level at the expense of marginal improvements in the offense. I'm fine looking at other cheaper QB options rather than paying Brock as I don't think the marginal gain from Brock is really going to be all that significant.

 

[Hasbro]

Maybe we can get Dilfer out of retirement.

 

[JWK]

Dilfer would be an upgrade over RG3.

 

[JWK]

Baseball season

 

[RockLobster]

And that's supposed to be "weight loss Sandoval"...

I so wished they never signed him. Never liked him with the Giants, never wanted him, and now he (with Hanley) are two players the Red Sox couldn't GIVE away (based on the rumors from the Hot Stove MLB Offseason this past Winter).

 

[5280]

And that's supposed to be "weight loss Sandoval"...

I so wished they never signed him. Never liked him with the Giants, never wanted him, and now he (with Hanley) are two players the Red Sox couldn't GIVE away (based on the rumors from the Hot Stove MLB Offseason this past Winter).

It was a bad marriage from the start for sure.

 

[Hasbro]

Get that man on our O-line!

 

[RockLobster]

It was a bad marriage from the start for sure.

It was so bad that I was hoping the Padres still wanted him and we could just traded him for Shields (salary retained if it was needed)...at least then it could have resulted in both Sandoval being gone AND either Bucholz (Mr Glass) or Porcello not being in the rotation...

Oh well, hopefully he'll do SOMETHING to earn his money this year