Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVIII: Hamels & Kintzler are Cubs

[HawksBeerFan]

Brian Hanley getting the heave-ho from the Score

Thank goodness, now if only they sent out Mully with him.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Also for all the talk there is about needing to fix baseball, the problems with the NFL... the NBA really seems to me to be on a very negative path. Sure the game is more popular than ever because of stars, but if you aren't a fan of one of a handful of teams, then what chance does your team have of winning a title? Even if you spend YEARS picking at the top of the lottery you 1. need to hit on everyone, 2. need to do it consecutively, 3. need to ensure those players develop rapidly because most of the best players in the league will leave when they hit FA.

The odds for the Warriors to win the Finals at this point must be what, less than 2 to 1? Which is INSANE.

I don't know, seems like there's real structural problems in the league from the fan perspective.

 

[Sarava]

Here's my analysis of an investment. It's never a straight line up.

That said, I don't know why people are so down with Moancada. Give him some time. He's got a nice swing. The kid still has talent. Baseball is a game of regression to the mean. Getting to that mean takes times.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I get the disappointment in Moncada. People see other rookies his age or younger coming up and making an impact right away. But these things aren't linear. Just because a Benintendi is a better player at this early age - that doesn't mean Moncada won't be a better player 2-4 years from now. But when you give up a Chris Sale - people want to see a return on that and to this point, we have not seen anything close. Michael Kopech taking a bit of a step back this year, might put a bit more pressure on Moncada to justify the trade in some fan's eyes.

 

[Sarava]

Or we need a better GM

The so called amazing rebuild has thus far proven to be disappointing and concerning

The Hahn honeymoon period should be over

There's definitely reasons for concern.

But the honeymoon can't be over until we see what these prospects do. Like it not, Hahn has a minimum of 2 years more on his leash, and probably more.

Again though, yeah I am disappointed this year. But since most of the setbacks are injury related, not performance related - I don't know how we can hate on Hahn with a straight face. Not yet anyway...

 

[piteus]

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I get the disappointment in Moncada. People see other rookies his age or younger coming up and making an impact right away. But these things aren't linear. Just because a Benintendi is a better player at this early age - that doesn't mean Moncada won't be a better player 2-4 years from now. But when you give up a Chris Sale - people want to see a return on that and to this point, we have not seen anything close. Michael Kopech taking a bit of a step back this year, might put a bit more pressure on Moncada to justify the trade in some fan's eyes.

Trading Chris Sale is a different issue. It was obvious Sale didn't want to be in Chicago anymore. You rarely ever get a return to match a talent like that on an affordable / controllable contract. IMO, Sale pushed the issue. The only real negative was Sale's health. Sale's proved he is a freak of nature when it comes to arm flexibility.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I get the disappointment in Moncada. People see other rookies his age or younger coming up and making an impact right away. But these things aren't linear. Just because a Benintendi is a better player at this early age - that doesn't mean Moncada won't be a better player 2-4 years from now. But when you give up a Chris Sale - people want to see a return on that and to this point, we have not seen anything close. Michael Kopech taking a bit of a step back this year, might put a bit more pressure on Moncada to justify the trade in some fan's eyes.

Moncada always seemed like a really risky type of guy to trade Sale for. There's no denying his talent and upside, but he did seem to come with quite a bit of variance, and the Sox don't have a great history of developing guys like that.

I get he was one of the top 3 prospects in baseball, but not all top prospects are made equal. Just seemed like a risky bet to make given you were moving on from the face of the franchise.

 

[Sarava]

Trading Chris Sale is a different issue. It was obvious Sale didn't want to be in Chicago anymore. You rarely ever get a return to match a talent like that on an affordable / controllable contract. IMO, Sale pushed the issue. The only real negative was Sale's health. Sale's proved he is a freak of nature when it comes to arm flexibility.

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree that Sale pushed the issue. We know he couldn't stand Kenny Williams. Hell most Sox fans can't stand KW either. But if it weren't for moving to a rebuild, I don't think he would have been traded and I think everything would have blown over.

But if you look at the alternate guys that probably would have been headlined in a Sale trade. Benintendi was on standby from his agent on whether he would be in the sale deal. I preferred Benintendi over Moncada at the time. But right now I wouldn't trade Moncada straight up for Benintendi.

Victor Robles was a rumored offer for Sale - he must be injured because he has hardly any at-bats this year. Austin Meadows - yuck. gload that didn't happen.

So I guess my point is - they probably wouldn't have gotten a better package. And that's probably why guys like Chris Sale shouldn't be traded ever.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Moncada always seemed like a really risky type of guy to trade Sale for. There's no denying his talent and upside, but he did seem to come with quite a bit of variance, and the Sox don't have a great history of developing guys like that.

I get he was one of the top 3 prospects in baseball, but not all top prospects are made equal. Just seemed like a risky bet to make given you were moving on from the face of the franchise.

The way the Sox have identified their trade targets is massive upside over safety. I applaud them for that. There is a decent chance that most of the guys they traded for bust partially or completely. Moncada has a notch below Mike Trout upside, Kopech has healthy Syndergaard upside. That is why they traded for them. Benintendi is going to be a really good player for a long time, but Moncada and Kopech have best position player/pitcher in the game upside. If either reaches their ceiling it is a win for the Sox. Honestly, both their floors aren't that low either, as I don't think either will not be a major leaguer for a while. Kopech's floor is a high leverage reliever and Moncada's floor is Trevor Story. Both still valuable pieces. The potential upside is worth only getting that floor on both of them. The 3rd piece in that trade, Luis Alexander Basabe, is having a breakout season in A+/AA right now so there may be another aspect to that trade.

 

[Easy E]

So I guess my point is - they probably wouldn't have gotten a better package. And that's probably why guys like Chris Sale shouldn't be traded ever.

Never should have been out of the White Sox organization. Period.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Baez steals home again. Kid is so much fun to watch.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree that Sale pushed the issue. We know he couldn't stand Kenny Williams. Hell most Sox fans can't stand KW either. But if it weren't for moving to a rebuild, I don't think he would have been traded and I think everything would have blown over..

Sorry but I think the relationship was fractured beyond repair after Sale's hissy fit over the creepy Laroche child situation and then the destroying team alternate jerseys on alternate jersey day was beyond unprofessional and showed just how much of a headcase he was being

 

[HawksBeerFan]

The way the Sox have identified their trade targets is massive upside over safety. I applaud them for that. There is a decent chance that most of the guys they traded for bust partially or completely. Moncada has a notch below Mike Trout upside, Kopech has healthy Syndergaard upside. That is why they traded for them. Benintendi is going to be a really good player for a long time, but Moncada and Kopech have best position player/pitcher in the game upside. If either reaches their ceiling it is a win for the Sox. Honestly, both their floors aren't that low either, as I don't think either will not be a major leaguer for a while. Kopech's floor is a high leverage reliever and Moncada's floor is Trevor Story. Both still valuable pieces. The potential upside is worth only getting that floor on both of them. The 3rd piece in that trade, Luis Alexander Basabe, is having a breakout season in A+/AA right now so there may be another aspect to that trade.

No prospect should be compared to Trout, dude is in the running for the greatest of all time.

 

[TheSting]

Embiid, the Greek, Hayward, Kyrie, Oladipo, Simmons, the Raptors and Wizards backcourts. There's some talent in the East.

East is wide open for the taking but they'll get smoked in the Finals...

 

[TheSting]

It's been a tough year for the Sox rebuild. Dan Dunning seems to be out for the year with that elbow strain. Luis Robert re-injured his thumb. I thought I saw he's out at least 6 weeks again? He's looking like he's made of glass. Speaking of often injured - Eloy is hurt again...he's on the DL. Hopefully that is just a couple of weeks.

Alec Hansen was my favorite pitching prospect on the Sox, and he's been real rusty in his return after being out a few months with the soreness. It's looking like a lost year for him as well. Uggh. We need some good luck on the south side.

Sox need to find pitching. 2nd most runs allowed in all of baseball.

 

[Elvis P]

The Sox are on ESPN.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Baez steals home again. Kid is so much fun to watch.

Shame that I'll probably ruin his career when I eventually get his jersey.

I own two Cubs jerseys. Prior and Soto. Yeah.

 

[TLEH]

Cubs doing all this without Kris. Does this say anything about him?

 

[Kurtosis]

Cubs doing all this without Kris. Does this say anything about him?

Is it your goal to post a hot take every single time you make a comment about the Cubs?

 

[Blue Liner]

Yeah I don't think there's any indictment of Bryant anywhere in this, personally.

 

[Sarava]

And Blake Rutherford was injured last night going through the outfield wall. this is crazy all these injuries this season.

 

[TLEH]

Is it your goal to post a hot take every single time you make a comment about the Cubs?

I don’t think saying that “Kyle can’t get out of the first inning” or “Duensing can’t get people out these past two weeks” are hot takes. Kris is an MVP caliber player, Cubs are going off offensively without him. I asked a question.

 

[Kurtosis]

I don’t think saying that “Kyle can’t get out of the first inning” or “Duensing can’t get people out these past two weeks” are hot takes. Kris is an MVP caliber player, Cubs are going off offensively without him. I asked a question.

Ahh the old “I’m just asking a question” response. What do you think it says?

 

[TLEH]

Ahh the old “I’m just asking a question” response. What do you think it says?

Classic glaze over the first part that says all I do is have hot takes? I think it obviously shows he was struggling poorly in the middle of the order and it was a problem? Guy obviously wasn’t healthy the entire time.

 

[Kurtosis]

Classic glaze over the first part that says all I do is have hot takes? I think it obviously shows he was struggling poorly in the middle of the order and it was a problem? Guy obviously wasn’t healthy the entire time.

Bullshit, it doesn’t show that at all. He’s a 132 WRC hitter, he wasn’t struggling. His power numbers are depressed a bit, but he definitely wasn’t struggling.

And it wasn’t a glaze over. I don’t feel like getting into it with you.

 

[piteus]

Without hot takes, the United States would cease to exist.

It is an interesting question. Where do you put Kris in the lineup? I guess at #3? After Heyward and before Rizzo?

The dream top 5 would be:
* Almora (right)
* Heyward (left)
* Bryant (right)
* Rizzo (left)
* Baez (right)
* Schwarber (left)
* Contreras (right)
* Russell (right)

Bench: Zobrist (switch), Happ (switch), Lastella (left)

That's a pretty powerful and versatile line up. The key is for Almora to take more walks. Baez to decrease his strikeout, and Heyward to continue to make hard contact.