Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

[MurrayBannerman]

The only good comp for him seems to be Al Horford. I want to make Derrick Favors work as a comp, but Favors doesn't shoot from the outside. So I guess it's more Horford or poor man's Horford.

 

[piteus]

That's still a significantly better version of Bobby Portis. Bobby is a big, slow, wing player with how he plays. Carter took most of his shots in the low post. Bobby just gets brutalized every time he ventures down there.

If you watched a lot of Duke last year, Bagley commanded the double teams in the post. Carter took advantage of it. He got a lot of one on one looks down low. When a superior defensive team like UVA (minus UMBC) played Duke at Cameron, Carter was neutralized. However, Bagley still dominated. Portis developed an outside shot. Let's hope Carter will too. Until he does, he'll be a liability on offense.

Carter should be a better interior defender than Portis. Will he be a better perimeter defender than Portis though? It's not like Portis very good defending in space. Portis needed to play the 5 because athletic 4s would hurt him.

Hence, if the Bulls put Carter at the 5, it will expose Lauri at the 4 against athletic wings. Unfortunately, Carter isn't the rim protector to discourage players in the lane (that's why JJJ / Bamba are better fits). That's why I think Carter will just be a decent role player.

In the playoffs, I see the Bulls putting Lauri at the 5 as he gets stronger. An athletic kid like Kevin Knox (6'9") might have been the perfect 4 for Lauri IF he develops as expected. Even if Carter develops, I don't think he maximizes Lauri's talent. Carter is a 5 who's really not a rim protector or finisher.

 

[piteus]

The only good comp for him seems to be Al Horford. I want to make Derrick Favors work as a comp, but Favors doesn't shoot from the outside. So I guess it's more Horford or poor man's Horford.

Favors is more athletic than Carter. Someone said Carter reminds of Boozer. I don't think so. Can Carter be Joakim Noah with a better shot? I don't think he's anything near the perimeter defender Noah was.

Maybe Carter can turn out to be like Al Jefferson or a Gortat? Horford would be the most optimal scenario. Carter is going to get wide and strong as an ox as he gets older. The later stronger version Taj Gibson? Enes Kanter?

 

[BK]

Favors is more athletic than Carter. Someone said Carter reminds of Boozer. I don't think so. Can Carter be Joakim Noah with a better shot? I don't think he's anything near the perimeter defender Noah was.

Maybe Carter can turn out to be like Al Jefferson or a Gortat? Horford would be the most optimal scenario. Carter is going to get wide and strong as an ox as he gets older. The later stronger version Taj Gibson? Enes Kanter?

So basically it was a shit pick?

 

[MurrayBannerman]

 

[piteus]

So basically it was a **** pick?

Carter is going to be a decent NBA player. The kid works hard. He's also extremely intelligent. He's a good teammate. He's just not going to move the needle a ton for the Bulls. He's not the playmaker at the wing that the Bulls sorely need. He neither the rim protector nor finisher.

He's the typical Bulls pick. McDermott, Portis, Valentine, and Markannen. Hard working / great attitude type of players. Let's hope Carter becomes more like Markannen. However, odds are that he will be closer to Portis, McDermott, and Valentine. When was the last time the Bulls drafted a high ceiling athletic talent? Jimmy Butler? Maybe. Derrick Rose? It's just GarPax being GarPax.

 

[BK]

Carter is going to be a decent NBA player. The kid works hard. He's also extremely intelligent. He's a good teammate. He's just not going to move the needle a ton for the Bulls. He's not the playmaker at the wing that the Bulls sorely need. He neither the rim protector nor finisher either.

He's the typical Bulls pick. McDermott, Portis, Valentine, and Markannen. Hard working / great attitude type of players. Let's hope Carter becomes more like Markannen. However, odds are that he will be closer to Portis, McDermott, and Valentine. When was the last time the Bulls drafted a high ceiling athletic talent? Jimmy Butler? Maybe. Derrick Rose? It's just GarPax being GarPax.

GarPax needs to go...

 

[piteus]

Perhaps the Bulls can convince Kawhi to come to Chicago next year.

The Bulls are a Kawhi away from contending for a title. That seems close ... but still very far away.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

Carter is going to be a decent NBA player. The kid works hard. He's also extremely intelligent. He's a good teammate. He's just not going to move the needle a ton for the Bulls. He's not the playmaker at the wing that the Bulls sorely need. He neither the rim protector nor finisher.

He's the typical Bulls pick. McDermott, Portis, Valentine, and Markannen. Hard working / great attitude type of players. Let's hope Carter becomes more like Markannen. However, odds are that he will be closer to Portis, McDermott, and Valentine. When was the last time the Bulls drafted a high ceiling athletic talent? Jimmy Butler? Maybe. Derrick Rose? It's just GarPax being GarPax.

I'm just going to say that I think you're really underselling Carter, especially defensively. This isn't a pick I thought I'd be fiercely defending, but here we are.

 

[piteus]

I'm just going to say that I think you're really underselling Carter, especially defensively. This isn't a pick I thought I'd be fiercely defending, but here we are.

TRUST ME, I HOPE I AM WRONG. I got the Trubisky trade and selection. The Bears needed to swing for the fences. I just don't understand how Carter fits in the big picture. I agree he'll be a decent player. IMO, Carter isn't the rim protector / finisher that the Bulls can use with Lauri. He's not really quick of foot to be a decent perimeter defender against large wings. So the best case scenario is he becomes a good shooter / passer / strong rebounder.

I'll be happy to eat crow on Carter. Let's be clear: in no way am I saying Carter will be a bust. He'll be a good role player. If he is the rim protector / finisher that you think he can be ... I'll be very happy. I'm just a bit skeptical. That said, I NEVER thought Lauri was the athlete he is either. I knew he was going to be a great shooter ... but no one saw that kind of mobility at Arizona. Let's hope I'm wrong and Carter is similar to Lauri.

People are not criticizing the pick because the Bulls didn't embarrass the talking heads by picking someone out of the blue. Gasbags are happy when they are right. However, we all know half the picks in the top ten turn out wrong. The Bears got criticized for Trubisky because no talking head saw it coming. It's a managing expectations thing.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Question for the hardcore baseball guys....

At what point to you pull the plug on Moncada being a switch hitter? I'm not advocating for it necessarily, but at some point it has to be in consideration right? I say all of this realizing he's obviously very early in his MLB, so I'm sure the answer isn't now.

For reference, career to date (again, super early)

As a Lefty 341 ABs
.240/.332/.443

As a Righty 132 ABs
.197/.267/.295

At some point is it better to allow him to hit left vs LPs? How big of a discrepancy in the splits would it have to be before you think about that?

I'll hang up and listen for my answer.

 

[Rooh]

Some of these posts, you guys are going to be awfully surprised by WCJ next season. I really really highly disagree with some of the things being said in here.

I’ll just let it all play out.

 

[Rooh]

The only good comp for him seems to be Al Horford. I want to make Derrick Favors work as a comp, but Favors doesn't shoot from the outside. So I guess it's more Horford or poor man's Horford.

I feel Marc Gasol is a good comp for Wendell.

Not the most athletic players, but both can take it low, shoot from the perimeter, good positional defenders with decent rim protection and both very good at passing.

 

[piteus]

Some of these posts, you guys are going to be awfully surprised by WCJ next season. I really really highly disagree with some of the things being said in here.

I’ll just let it all play out.

I could be completely wrong. I hope I am. It's all a guessing game.

However, you also said Doncic is guaranteed to be the first pick in the draft. He was passed by his former Slovenian coach on the Suns and 2 Serbs who help run the Kings. That's pretty concerning.

And I agreed with you later ... that Doncic could be best player in the draft due to his position and performance in the European Championships last summer. I still like Doncic. However, NOTHING is for certain when forecasting prospects ... especially for a project who was picked #7. Mo Bamba was picked ahead of Carter ... and we all know how big of a project he is.

That said, Carter can be good if he learns to shoot. However, that's still a big IF. It's also a big IF for Bagley, Bamba, Jackson, Ayton, and Williams (also attitude issues). However, Bagley, Bamba, Jackson, Ayton, and Williams are all athletic freaks. Carter plays more below the rim. He has far less room for error. We saw that with McDermott, Portis, and Valentine. I'll be jumping for joy if Carter is more athletic like Markannen. I'm praying that he is.

 

[Rooh]

I could be completely wrong. I hope I am. It's all a guessing game.

However, you also said Doncic is guaranteed to be the first pick in the draft. He was passed by his former Slovenian coach on the Suns and 2 Serbs who help run the Kings. That's pretty concerning.

And I agreed with you later ... that Doncic could be best player in the draft due to his position and performance in the European Championships last summer. I still like Donic. However, NOTHING is for certain when forecasting prospects ... especially for a project who was picked #7. Mo Bamba was picked ahead of Carter ... and we all know how big of a project he is.

That said, Carter can be good if he learns to shoot. However, that's still a big IF. It's also a big IF for Bagley, Bamba, Jackson, Ayton, and Williams (attitude issues). However, Bagley, Bamba, Jackson, Ayton, and Williams are all athletic freaks. Carter plays more below the rim.

To be clear I never stated Doncic would literally be the #1 pick, what I meant is he is my consensus #1 player on the board and it’s wasnt even a discussion for me and a year later it’s still not close. Top 2 selections basically depended on who got the draft pick and two trash organizations ended up with them.

Kings and Suns are going to look like fools, they should’ve drafted Doncic #1.

 

[piteus]

To be clear I never stated Doncic would literally be the #1 pick, what I meant is he is my consensus #1 player on the board and it’s wasnt even a discussion for me and a year later it’s still not close. Top 2 selections basically depended on who got the draft pick and two trash organizations ended up with them.

Kings and Suns are going to look like fools, they should’ve drafted Doncic #1.

You might be very well be right. However, you did say Doncic would be the #1 pick. You also said he would be a NBA all star right now. Maybe he is ... however, there appears to be a lot of questions surrounding Doncic. He's lucky to be playing for Carlisle. However, Doncic won't see the floor in his rookie year IF he doesn't play defense for Rick. I say this as a Doncic fan. I believe his upside is just as good as any prospect in the draft.

And didn't I say being a high first round pick has a lot more factors than just talent? There's a business angle. There's relationships, especially agents. There's perception (risk / reward). There's roster management. It goes on and on.

We'll see how Doncic teams with Smith, Barnes, and Dirk. The Mavs better pray DeAndre Jordan opts out and signs with them. That defense is going to suck.

 

[clydesdale line]

Some of these posts, you guys are going to be awfully surprised by WCJ next season.

Didn't think he would get this underrated a day after drafting him.

 

[Rooh]

You might be very well be right. However, you did say Doncic would be the #1 pick. You also said he would be a NBA all star right now. Maybe he is ... however, there appears to be a lot of questions surrounding Doncic. He's lucky to be playing for Carlisle. However, Doncic won't see the floor in his rookie year IF he doesn't play defense for Rick. I say this as a Doncic fan. I believe his upside is just as good as any prospect in the draft.

And didn't I say being a high first round pick has a lot more factors than just talent? There's a business angle. There's relationships, especially agents. There's perception (risk / reward). There's roster management. It goes on and on.

We'll see how Doncic teams with Smith, Barnes, and Dirk. The Mavs better pray DeAndre Jordan opts out and signs with them. That defense is going to suck.

All of the praise I have given Doncic I stand by, I think he's the best prospect to come out since Lebron. I have no issues with his defense whatsoever he was one of the best defenders in all of Europe, he had great positioning and effort. Again, I never said Doncic WOULD go #1, I have always said that he was the best player in the draft and nothing the college players do would ever change this.

Doncic was absolutely the best prospect in this draft, and yet these inept organizations decided to select two bigs that can't play an ounce of defense against college kids. I am not surprised the white euro player didn't go #1, but i'm sure that narrative is about to die real soon.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer said the Bulls' promise to Hutchinson prevented them from moving up for Doncic or JJJ. That's downright incompetent.

 

[TLEH]

Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer said the Bulls' promise to Hutchinson prevented them from moving up for Doncic or JJJ. That's downright incompetent.

That can't be true

 

[MurrayBannerman]

That can't be true

I sure hope not. Not knowledgeable enough with NBA FOs to refute.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Take this for what it's worth;

Article on BR saying the Owner of the nuggets isn't 100% sure MPJ plays next year.

Popped on my phone, no clue if true

 

[Bubba88]

Carter will be a good fit for Lauri and his D for entering the league is good. Carter can shoot already, at least mid range.

Hutchison is the sleeper here. He could work well in the end and be better than the position he was picked. Just hope he works because if he works he'll be better than all the guys that were gone after Bamba went 6.

GarPax wanted to move up, but not with the cost of a future 1st round pick or taking in 49 million Parsons.

 

[DPHawk]

He's the typical Bulls pick. McDermott, Portis, Valentine, and Markannen. Hard working / great attitude type of players. Let's hope Carter becomes more like Markannen. However, odds are that he will be closer to Portis, McDermott, and Valentine. When was the last time the Bulls drafted a high ceiling athletic talent? Jimmy Butler? Maybe. Derrick Rose? It's just GarPax being GarPax.

Butler wasn't a high ceiling, athletic pick, he was in the same mold as Portis, McDermott, ect.. Here's DraftExpress on him:

"The Texas native is not a freak athlete, or the type of player you'll see on an ESPN highlight reel any time soon. He does not have the pedigree of a future NBA All-Star. His physical tools are fairly average, and he still needs to develop certain parts of his skill set, namely his shooting consistency from the beyond the arc, to maximize his value...

His athleticism won't allow him to create consistently one-on-one at the next level, but he's a functional ball-handler who can take what defenders give him."

I think there's a lot more value in taking supposedly "safe" picks as opposed to the obsession of upside and athleticism that more often pushes questionable basketball players up draft boards.

 

[piteus]

Butler wasn't a high ceiling, athletic pick, he was in the same mold as Portis, McDermott, ect.. Here's DraftExpress on him:

"The Texas native is not a freak athlete, or the type of player you'll see on an ESPN highlight reel any time soon. He does not have the pedigree of a future NBA All-Star. His physical tools are fairly average, and he still needs to develop certain parts of his skill set, namely his shooting consistency from the beyond the arc, to maximize his value...

His athleticism won't allow him to create consistently one-on-one at the next level, but he's a functional ball-handler who can take what defenders give him."

I think there's a lot more value in taking supposedly "safe" picks as opposed to the obsession of upside and athleticism that more often pushes questionable basketball players up draft boards.

That's also a fair assessment. You need a balance of both. When you look at our last 5 first round picks (McDermott, Portis, Valentine, Markannen, Carter), 4/5 were under the basket type players minus Lauri. And let's be honest, I don't think even the Bulls thought Lauri was this good of an athlete. I know the rest of the NBA didn't.

That said, the Bulls alleviated some of the concerns by trading for 2 prime athletes in LaVine and Dunn. However, we do need some more above the rim wings. I haven't seen Hutchinson play ... I hope he can be one. Also, perhaps Carter is a better athlete than thought ... much like Lauri.