OT: RIM Is Not Doing Well

[borno87]

The decision makers in most companies care more about how popular/nice looking the iPhone is than any of the rest you mentioned.

The days of executives passing their old blackberry's down to their employees when a new one comes along are over. As many have mentioned, it is simply more cost effective at this point for companies to open up their IT software to iPhones/Androids. It's something I have noticed at my company (10,000+ employees) and slowly but surely you will see other large corporations do the same. Simply saying "BlackBerry is THE corporate choice is not all that accurate a statement anymore.

Looking at the hard numbers, the consumer smartphone market is exploding while the corporate smartphone market is saturated. There is absolutely no question that RIM is losing the consumer battle. There is little room to grow in the corporate market. All of RIM's growth is occuring in emerging markets, which quite frankly is not sustainable IMO.

Analysts have been musing about a lower-mid tier iPhone being developed by Apple, and if that happens and Apple expands their product offering they will absolutely dominate those lower tiered market segments. As many have stated, they have a huge marketing advantage over RIM, and its only a matter of time before RIM runs out of soft markets to hide in.

The problem for RIM is not that they haven't been able to match the "explosive growth" they experienced when they climbed to the top of the hill. It's that they have fallen well short of their own expectations for consecutive quarters, which plays a big part in their own strategic planning.

To those who keep saying that they have a superior product, let me borrow an expression you use regularly: "take off your RIM fanboy hat and rose colored glasses." The Torch was released with buggy, slow, borderline unusable software (it has since been updated, but still, allowing that level of quality into market does not bode well for the future), the Playbook missed its targeted launch date (Q1 2011) and was launched WITHOUT NATIVE EMAIL AND CALENDAR SUPPORT. They were late releasing a flagship product into the tablet market, and it didn't even have EMAIL!!! I would love to see the RIM fan boys defend that.

 

[nomorekids]

the Playbook is\was an unmitigated disaster for sure, but it's a symptom of RIM's downfall, not the cause. Just another stain on the reputation.

 

[Gobias Industries]

the Playbook is\was an unmitigated disaster for sure, but it's a symptom of RIM's downfall, not the cause. Just another stain on the reputation.

I'd call it a missed opportunity more than anything else...but agreed...not a disaster..

 

[borno87]

the Playbook is\was an unmitigated disaster for sure, but it's a symptom of RIM's downfall, not the cause. Just another stain on the reputation.

Ya that's what I was trying to illustrate. These guys can't seem to do anything right, and obviously the problems that cause failures like the PlayBook are systemic, and not isolated one-off issues. I just can't believe they let that thing out the door without a native email client. It's mind boggling.

 

[Killion]

I am not sure I see this happening in the same way though. Since the RBC report there has been a fair bit of talk about the possibility of RIM splitting into two companies. The smartphone side could well die, but the network side could flourish. This is still a very profitable company with solid international growth.

Agreed. If they are capable of re-inventing themselves somewhat then sure, and both Balsillie & Lazaridis are capable of living up to their pasts', then absolutely they can rebound through the network side of things, possibly selling a patent or two to get there, whatever it takes. What is both disconcerting & disturbing however are their comments that this is all "overblown" & they seemingly plan to stay the course, maintain the status quo. Being in denial is just not healthy.

I should, however, qualify my earlier post a little, as I had been into the Crystal Head Vodka.

's in the belfry huh?.

My story isn't unique. This is happening EVERYWHERE, throughout the industry. You can pound your chest and reassure yourself that RIM\Blackberry are fine, that they'll rebound, and that they're still "the only choice" for business use. You are categorically incorrect.

Until RIM overhauls their entire model...does away with the BES\CAL requirement, comes about 3 years into the present with their devices, and actually LISTENS TO THEIR LARGEST CUSTOMERS, they will continue to decline, until they've gone completely the way of Palm. It's not "if," it's "when."

Your observations are absolutely irrefutable. Couldnt agree more. And I sincerely hope for the sake of RIM & its shareholders, the dozens of companies that rely upon it in Canada, the US & elsewhere that they dig down deep & find the guts to look in the mirror & do something to alter course.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The days of executives passing their old blackberry's down to their employees when a new one comes along are over. As many have mentioned, it is simply more cost effective at this point for companies to open up their IT software to iPhones/Androids. It's something I have noticed at my company (10,000+ employees) and slowly but surely you will see other large corporations do the same. Simply saying "BlackBerry is THE corporate choice is not all that accurate a statement anymore.

Uh, yeah, that is basically what I said.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

Ya that's what I was trying to illustrate. These guys can't seem to do anything right, and obviously the problems that cause failures like the PlayBook are systemic, and not isolated one-off issues. I just can't believe they let that thing out the door without a native email client. It's mind boggling.

Me too. It's really incredible. What arrogance, and what a gouge, to force people to have BB phones with their Playbooks.

 

[RandR]

Ya that's what I was trying to illustrate. These guys can't seem to do anything right, and obviously the problems that cause failures like the PlayBook are systemic, and not isolated one-off issues. I just can't believe they let that thing out the door without a native email client. It's mind boggling.

I was amazed at this too, especially coming from a company who made their mark selling devices used first and foremost for email.

I think they decided they just couldn't push back the launch date of the PlayBook any further, so they launched without even core apps. Sign of a company trying to play catchup in a product space ... and failing at it.

 

[ps241]

I'll re-iterate again...I work in corporate IT. I have for many years, for several large, prestigious companies. As a function of my job, corporate wireless devices have fallen under my purview, from both a front and back end perspective.

With all of that, with a finger on the pulse of the industry-- Blackberry is losing customers every single day.

It is NOT the only choice on the market anymore. As I alluded to in an earlier post, there was a time that they could pirate their customers due to a relative monopoly, requiring additional licensing, hardware requirements\overhead(in the form of a Blackberry Enterprise Server being required). That's not even considering the way that the devices themselves have fallen behind.

Conversely, you have Android\iPhone, that will work seamlessly with Exchange\Domino services that your company is already running anyway, without the need for costly additional Blackberry licenses, hardware, or administration. Android\iPhone\WM devices all work to sync email, calendar, contacts via Microsoft's ActiveSync technology, which is a native feature to MS Exchange. Most of the large IT shops in Nashville that I have contacts at\have worked at...including the government agency I work for currently...have abandoned or are planning to abandon Blackberry\BES for Android devices. In addition, we're retiring our BES servers, which means that users with personal devices that they wish to receive work email on are out of luck, unless they use something ActiveSync compatible. We're not going to keep paying RIM money just for the "privilege" of our employees using the devices. So Blackberry loses on two fronts -- they've already lost our corporate account, and our users, when it comes time to buy a new device, have to consider that if they want their work email on their phone, they need to purchase something that's not Blackberry, as well.

My story isn't unique. This is happening EVERYWHERE, throughout the industry. You can pound your chest and reassure yourself that RIM\Blackberry are fine, that they'll rebound, and that they're still "the only choice" for business use. You are categorically incorrect.

Until RIM overhauls their entire model...does away with the BES\CAL requirement, comes about 3 years into the present with their devices, and actually LISTENS TO THEIR LARGEST CUSTOMERS, they will continue to decline, until they've gone completely the way of Palm. It's not "if," it's "when."

nice post and it follows a trend I have noticed.....It seems like the more actual industry knowledge people have on this topic, and the more emotionally detached from RIM the posters are, the more they agree with your viewpoint.

This has been a good thread and I have learned allot.

 

[Killion]

This has been a good thread and I have learned allot.

Dont rest on your laurels, your only as good as your next shift.

 

[s7ark]

Me too. It's really incredible. What arrogance, and what a gouge, to force people to have BB phones with their Playbooks.

I don't have a BB and enjoy my Playbook quite a lot. It's responsive, portable and constantly getting updates. Playbook is actually the first Blackberry thing I've owned and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

Maybe I'm in the minority though...

 

[ps241]

Dont rest on your laurels, your only as good as your next shift.

Tru dat Killion

 

[cheswick]

I don't have a BB and enjoy my Playbook quite a lot. It's responsive, portable and constantly getting updates. Playbook is actually the first Blackberry thing I've owned and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

Maybe I'm in the minority though...

I'm a pretty big tech guy so read a tonne of tech blogs and watch lots of reviews. Aside from the iPad the Playbook is the best reviewed tablet out there with its small size being its main criticism.

People pointing out the failure of the playbook are off base and clearly not familiar with the tablet market, just going by Blackberry being hte cool company to bash nowadays.

Blackberry for sure has problems but its not cause of the playbook. Its cause the playbook is the only interesting device they've released in years.

 

[s7ark]

I'm a pretty big tech guy so read a tonne of tech blogs and watch lots of reviews. Aside from the iPad the Playbook is the best reviewed tablet out there with its small size being its main criticism.

People pointing out the failure of the playbook are off base and clearly not familiar with the tablet market, just going by Blackberry being hte cool company to bash nowadays.

Blackberry for sure has problems but its not cause of the playbook. Its cause the playbook is the only interesting device they've released in years.

I actually prefer the smaller size to the bigger iPads. It's easier to hold and since you're never looking at it from more than arms length away, its screen is big enough. Plus it fits in your pocket to take it with you.

I totally agree with the last statement. I am looking to upgrade my phone and started checking into BB ones because they'd work well with my playbook. But then I realized they were way behind the times. If they released a dual core QNX based phone, I'd probably buy that, but since there is no word on when that might happen, I'll probably pick up an SG2 instead.

 

[Dolemite]

I'm a pretty big tech guy so read a tonne of tech blogs and watch lots of reviews. Aside from the iPad the Playbook is the best reviewed tablet out there with its small size being its main criticism.

People pointing out the failure of the playbook are off base and clearly not familiar with the tablet market, just going by Blackberry being hte cool company to bash nowadays.

Blackberry for sure has problems but its not cause of the playbook. Its cause the playbook is the only interesting device they've released in years.

If there's a problem with the Playbook it's they didn't market it correctly and the timing of the release.

 

[Spamhuis]

I'm a pretty big tech guy so read a tonne of tech blogs and watch lots of reviews. Aside from the iPad the Playbook is the best reviewed tablet out there with its small size being its main criticism.

People pointing out the failure of the playbook are off base and clearly not familiar with the tablet market, just going by Blackberry being hte cool company to bash nowadays.

Blackberry for sure has problems but its not cause of the playbook. Its cause the playbook is the only interesting device they've released in years.

I am an it manager in a mid sized company who is struggling with these decisions. The only reason iphones are well liked is by executives who like the look of the iphone. IT folk typically hate them in bigger orgs because of the massive security risks that you have to mitigate.

 

[nomorekids]

I am an it manager in a mid sized company who is struggling with these decisions. The only reason iphones are well liked is by executives who like the look of the iphone. IT folk typically hate them in bigger orgs because of the massive security risks that you have to mitigate.

Security risks such as? If your EWS\OWA is secured via an SSL certificate, your transmissions are encrypted. We require that any ActiveSync device allows our client device security policies before it will ever sync. That includes a device-lock code of at least 4 digits, remote wipe, etc. Most of the "BES-only" security enhancements are now available for everything.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Ya that's what I was trying to illustrate. These guys can't seem to do anything right, and obviously the problems that cause failures like the PlayBook are systemic, and not isolated one-off issues. I just can't believe they let that thing out the door without a native email client. It's mind boggling.

Does anyone on here actually have any experience using tablets? They're all basically useless. The Playbook blows the doors off the iPad for many reasons. That doesn't mean it is a good product though.

RIM does have the best products....their marketing has failed and the lemming users soak up everything Apple offers.

People bought iPhones that dropped calls if you....wait for it....HELD IT! People lined up for that phone...bought them like they were only going to make a few thousand. And they dropped calls if you held it.

That tells you two things. Apple has better marketing/hype.....and the consumers are absolute boneheads.

 

[Dado]

Tablets are awesome. Well, the good ones, anyway, RIM's is a sad cruel joke.

They have greatly reduced the need for laptops in our outfit(s), and even to some extent desktops. They're not a complete replacement - development work and content-creation in general is far better done on "real" computers - but for consuming content, viewing docs, surfing, communicating etc, they are simply awesome.

I hope RIM gets its act together - the more solid competition, the better for users. But I'm not hopeful, their best outcome now is likely a low-dollar buyout by a foolish large company like HP that is looking for yet another means of blowing billions by acquiring something parrot-dead and proceeding to make it all dead.

 

[Dolemite]

Security risks such as? If your EWS\OWA is secured via an SSL certificate, your transmissions are encrypted. We require that any ActiveSync device allows our client device security policies before it will ever sync. That includes a device-lock code of at least 4 digits, remote wipe, etc. Most of the "BES-only" security enhancements are now available for everything.

He's talking outside the e-mail functionality.

I am an it manager in a mid sized company who is struggling with these decisions. The only reason iphones are well liked is by executives who like the look of the iphone. IT folk typically hate them in bigger orgs because of the massive security risks that you have to mitigate.

Any half way decent to excellent corporate security person will know that the iPhone (and other Apple products/applications) has the overall security of Swiss cheese (full of holes). As I've stated before, Apple puts their focus on pretty looking products/applications while functionality, security, and rock solid product testing take a back seat during the development cycle.

That tells you two things. Apple has better marketing/hype.....and the consumers are absolute boneheads.

Bingo. Disagree with the second part of that quote.

 

[Dolemite]

To those who keep saying that they have a superior product, let me borrow an expression you use regularly: "take off your RIM fanboy hat and rose colored glasses."

My rebuttal to this statement would be that during 9/11 Blackberry phones were the only ones that worked when the towers fell.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/83eb57de-e724-11d9-a721-00000e2511c8.html#axzz1SG7FBtJR

 

[Grimace]

My rebuttal to this statement would be that during 9/11 Blackberry phones were the only ones that worked when the towers fell.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/83eb57de-e724-11d9-a721-00000e2511c8.html#axzz1SG7FBtJR

but what have they done lately? that was 10 years.

by that logic then my atari 4 meg mega st from 1988 is still the best because it was the standard for midi and was in every studio in the 1980-90s.

the real sad part about this, is in my world ATARI still rules

 

[Dolemite]

but what have they done lately? that was 10 years.

by that logic then my atari 4 meg mega st from 1988 is still the best because it was the standard for midi and was in every studio in the 1980-90s.

the real sad part about this, is in my world ATARI still rules

Bad example. A better example for you to use would be Billy Ray Cyrus not being able to come up with an album or song that topped 'Achy Breaky Heart'.

 

[Confucius]

I don't get why people even buy Ipads, playbook or other knockoff readers. Netbooks are similar in size a third of the price and do much more. I use an Acer netbook, cost was less than 200 before taxes.

 

[Dado]

I don't get why people even buy Ipads, playbook or other...

If you're interested in actually learning why, you could always just, you know, ask...