OT: RIM Is Not Doing Well

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by sawchuk1971, Jun 17, 2011.

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  1. sawchuk1971

    sawchuk1971 Registered User

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    company's stock price tumble, decrease in profits and may slash jobs..

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/06/16/18293861.html

    since baldsilly is supposed to own RIM...i wonder if this negative business news will affect him purchasing a franchise and relocate to southern ontario?
     
  2. Grimace

    Grimace Registered User

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    i think we all know blackberry is starting to become the new palm. it doesnt matter what happens because they're not getting a team and moving it to hamilton.

    if hamilton does get a team it wont be next season and blackberry will not be involved. he burned his bridges and he has bigger things to worry about.

    i think he really did a dissiverse to the hockey fans in hamilton by the stupind circus he put a few years ago. you think after that the nhl has any interest to go there? plus you have no arena, no plans for a new one and you have to deal with 2 other teams.

    aint happening!!!

    atleast not anytime soon
     
  3. nomorekids

    nomorekids The original, baby

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    http://gizmodo.com/5812832/ten-reasons-why-blackberry-is-screwed

    I work in corporate IT...5 years ago, Blackberry was the only way to go, even if it meant paying rates, hardware costs, and BES licenses that were borderline piracy. Since the inception of the iPhone and then the various Android devices, along with their native support of MS Exchange\Activesync...I can't think of any of my colleagues that haven't already moved from Blackberry or don't at least have a plan to move away.

    It's an inferior product to the other options, and the TCO is considerably higher.
     
  4. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    Balsillie doesn't own RIM, it's a publicly-traded corporation. Balsillie is CEO.
     
  5. TaketheCannoli

    TaketheCannoli RIP

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    Karma is such a *****. RIM made a business of bullying smaller technology companies and "borrowing" their intellectual property. They also made a business out of litigating against small companies that couldn't afford to defend against RIM's litigation financial resources. The Rodier approach is SOP at RIM.

    The market is doing some payback. Enterprises were bullied by RIM until as another poster pointed out, other options became available.
    The one thing allowing RIM to hang on is encryption. The API used by iPhones and Androids is not nearly as secure as Blackberry Enterprise Server, but they do everything else better than a BES server.
     
  6. TorontoSports

    TorontoSports Registered User

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    The stock is down 7 dollars today!
     
  7. Fugu

    Fugu Guest

    Yes, but if Karma has anything to do with it, she totally slept through Micrcosoft's high growth years. ;)
     
  8. saillias

    saillias Registered User

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    There was an NHL owner who stated that he "Just plain didn't like Balsillie." Leipold I think. Apparently the way he tried to acquire the Nashville Predators was similar, bullying, intimidation and all that.
     
  9. Fugu

    Fugu Guest


    Leipold lives in a glass house. Leipold left the possibility open that he'd back JB in he bought the team and wanted to move them. Months later, he refused to offer that backing but insisted that JB go through his end of the deal. Regardless of exactly how that worked out, the point remains that Leipold knew ALL ALONG that JB's only interest was in moving the team, and not after seven years. Balsillie was never going to sign an agreement to keep a team in another city for 7 yrs then hope the NHL would be considerate and let him relocate (regardless of any financial issues in the current market).

    Furthermore, this is the guy who lent Boots $17MM so he could close the sale on the Preds, while he sat on the Exec Committee which oversees franchise sales. Perhaps he removed himself for the transaction, I don't know for sure, but he certainly didn't tell Bettman and the guys doing due diligence that Boots didn't have the money.
     
  10. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    C & P from the Forbes: Balsillie will eventually own NHL team thread where this discussion (and Schadenfreude to some) started.

    Down over $8 today to ~$27 - down 23% from yesterday's close and 60% off it's recent high.

    One of RIMMs top institutional investors is selling off.

    http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...omberg-pressure-on-the-ceos/?mod=yahoobarrons

    Analyst reactions to earnings and comments.

    http://allthingsd.com/20110617/analyst-consensus-on-rim-look-out-below/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker

     
  11. ranold26

    ranold26 Tuukka likes the post...

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    What is even funnier...

    In the last couple days, Balsillie has been on a couple networks, CNBC and BTV, basically doing damage control...... while Gary Bettman rang yesterday's closing bell at the NYSE.:laugh:
     
  12. ponder

    ponder Registered User

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    Indeed, they went from basically a monopoly type market, where they were essentially the only people offering smart phones, so they could charge very high prices, to a highly competitive market, flooded with smart phones from huge numbers of manufacturers, that's going to be very bad for any business. Plus their product, in the eyes of most, is inferior to the competition (iPhones, HTC phones, etc.).

    Their stock used to trade consistently above $100/share, as high as $150, and now it's at $27, that's quite the fall. I'd have to think that Balsillie's NHL plans would have to be put on hold, at the very least, no time for expensive hobbies when your money making company is going down the toilet.
     
  13. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    He does (live in a GlassHouse), and of course coming to light after the fact Del Biaggio was out running wild trying to drum up investors to purchase the Pred's and move the team to KC on the sly. Prior to the BOG's meeting in 09 in which they considered Reinsdorf's & Balsillies' "Membership Applications" in which the former was approved, the latter rejected, Leipold addressed the room with an interesting statement of facts regarding Rodier & Balsillies tactics in attempting to purchase & move the team to Hamilton. Apparently, a full 2yrs prior to entering into negotiations, Rodier was in direct contact with the City of Nashville, asking them if the ownership "wasnt in breach of its lease agreement in not providing its net worth statements" which raised all kinds of Red Flags, and resulted in the Authority with holding tens of thousands of dollars in arena management fee's over a 2yr period (05-07). Disrupting, disabling & devaluing further a struggling franchise. Softening them up before moving in for the kill. Leipold claims he only found out about this in 08 when officials turned over a series of emails from Rodier after the entire deal crumbled into acrimony.

    When he did enter into negotiations for the Predators with Balsillie/Rodier, they made it clear they intended to move the team to Hamilton, and included in their purchase agreement submission that Leipold act as the facilitator insuring that it was given clearance by the NHL, with JB simultaneously sending off an application for relocation to league offices, at which point in time the proverbial %&@& hit the fan. . Leipold, in a meeting in Waterloo with Rodier & Balsillie, recorded by his lawyer over the phone, stated clearly that the team was for sale only as a "where is as is" package, that League By-Laws prohibited him selling the franchise for relocation, and that if they wanted to move the team they'd have to abide the 7yr itch clause & play by the rules. Furthermore, a $10M deposit would be required accompanying their purchase agreement submission agreeing to said terms otherwise it was a no go. Balsillie & Rodier agreed to comply, everything purportedly Hunky-Dory.

    Instead, they never submitted a formal purchase agreement nor the $10M deposit, and instead, launched a "Hamilton Preds'" ticket sale drive, the "Makeit7" campaign, stirring up nationalistic fever's with borderline xenophobic over-tones, using the NHL's & the Predators intellectual property rights & logo's in order to try & force Nashville, the league, MLSE & the Sabres to accede. That the public outcry & demand for the most "underserved" market in North America would be a boulder that once dislodged from the hilltop would gather enough steam on its way down to gather no moss. Needless to say, upon completion of the presentation of Leipolds "statement of facts" to the BOG's, guys like Jacobs, Snyder & others had some tough bordering on antagonistic questions for Mr. Balsillie. The enmity that he and "Loose Cannon" Rodier (Leipolds words) had engendered through Pittsburgh, Nashville & Phoenix (contemporaneously making inquiries in Atlanta & elsewhere with nefarious plottings & intrigues) guaranteed his outright rejection as an owner by all.

    Im not a big fan of Mr.Leipold, however, in his defence of the Del Biaggio scandal, he lent the money (as did AEG out of LA) based on forged documents to a guy whose bona-fides seemed legit. It went against league rules in doing so, but I think it would be naive' to assume that transactions of this nature dont take place on a fairly regular basis amongst the players at ownership levels throughout the league either with or without Bettmans knowledge & or consent..... As for Jim Balsillie, I think its rather apparent that he has far bigger fish to fry than owning a team. Had he achieved his goal, and RIM continues its slide, he might well have ended up the target of a hostile buy-out/take-over himself, the hunter becoming the hunted as his wealth is largely tied up in RIM stock.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
  14. jessebelanger

    jessebelanger Registered User

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    There have been whispers that my company is also thinking of moving away from blackberrys later this summer...we're talking 15,000 cell phones and maybe 10-20 BES's (don't know much about the BES's..)
     
  15. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    I used to think RIM's moats against competition would hold much longer with so many companies buying into the Blackberry Enterprise Server model that made it difficult for competitors to get a foothold into RIM's customers. Yet I've seen that motte and bailey crumble rapidly the last 12 months, and all signs right now are that the decay is accelerating. I work in enterprise systems architecture and have been seeing a recent shift of many large companies moving away from the dedicated single vendor approach that RIM thrived in towards allowing employees to pick their own personal wireless devices, then using different methods to allow them to access the company network. The biggest beneficiaries of that shift being Apple and Android obviously.

    Oddly, the iPad may have contributed more to that crumbling of RIM's unassailable business dominance than any of the competitor smartphones. Lots of companies that previously had a closed policy of limited vendors and only company-owned devices on their networks were pressured to revisit those policies due to the iPad.
     
  16. jessebelanger

    jessebelanger Registered User

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    Why is that Mouser - strong demand from employees?
     
  17. nomorekids

    nomorekids The original, baby

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    To take it a step further, part of the reason my company has moved away from Blackberry is the need\expense of maintaining BES and the associated CALs. In the past, those needing access to their email in a controlled manner (subject to enforced device security policy, remote wipe, etc) were the exception and dealt with on a one-off basis. Now, with Microsoft's native support of most non-Blackberry devices in regard to Outlook(and calendar\contacts, therein),the need for the BES goes away, and users with Blackberries as their personal devices won't even be able to have their email on their smartphone.

    You'd better believe that those users who aren't issued a phone but need\want access to email at all times will take that into consideration when buying a new phone.
     
  18. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    Yes, though not necessarily demand for companies to start buying them, more often influential employees that want to use their personal iPads on the corporate network.
     
  19. TaketheCannoli

    TaketheCannoli RIP

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    Karma doesn't get you during high growth. Karma pays you back when there are alternatives. MSFT is getting payback as we speak.
     
  20. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    Wow.

    What work do you guys do?
     
  21. TaketheCannoli

    TaketheCannoli RIP

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    You're seeing enterprise tech speak.
     
  22. nomorekids

    nomorekids The original, baby

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    corporate network\server engineer.
     
  23. RandR

    RandR Registered User

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    As co-founders, Balsillie and Lazaridis, are by far the largest shareholders in the company. It's fair to assume that a significant portion of Balsillie's net worth is in RIM stock.

    Outside of some of the key numbers being reported today, RIM isn't even able to announce what portion of their workforce they are going to lay off. They seem to have been caught completely off-guard.

    And when your fourth-largest investor sells over 1/2 their shares and declares "They are resting on their laurels", then I can't imagine much worse publicity.

    RIM is beginning to look like Palm.
     
  24. Noeller

    Noeller Registered User

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    You nerds are crazy. I love my BB more than life itself, and I can't wait for the new models to come out this summer. The new Bold which maintains the industry leading keyboard, while adding touch capabilities to the Bold screen is going to be the cat's ass.

    I'll be Team BB till they stop making 'em.
     
  25. Fugu

    Fugu Guest

    Bettman's time would be better spent visiting kdb in San Jose, while making pit stops at the Googleplex and Apple. (Recalling all the RIMM ads on NHL broadcasts....).

    Food for thought. :)



    Except that was a bait and switch of sorts, wasn't it, Killion?

    Obviously, there is no prerequisite to stay any length of time, other than any lease issues with an arena. Iirc, the Predators had an exit clause from their lease, or at the most, 3 yrs might have been an option.

    That is to say, IF no local buyer could be found. In retrospect, at the time and without Boots involvement, there would have been no local buyer. It's interesting to consider what would have happened if Boots had failed to secure the loans he did from NHL governors.
    They should have fired those questions at AEG and Leipold, imo. :)

    There are reasons leagues put in these types of prohibitions and stipulations. In fact, had the rest of the ownership group not been able to find additional investors, they would have been hung out to dry, the league's name sullied further, and the Preds in serious need of being folded or moved. I think you're blithely dismissing something that could have been catastrophic to some of the investors--- who were very good people trying to do what they felt was best for their community. Their actions in Nashville since that mess clearly shows they are a great bunch who might have been very damaged by Boots' actions--- and two NHL governors would have been able to prevent it.
     
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