OT: Orange County [FL] approves funding for Orlando City downtown soccer stadium

[cutchemist42]

What?

It's not about 'knowing' anything, it's about how many times an owner needs to fill a stadium.

Yes, and if they couldn't fill a new baseball stadium last year with low prices, and constantly don't fill out other sports then why is this going to be any different? Just because something is played less does not mean interest will automatically increase, especially if the new location ends up as bad as the old one was.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

People just conveniently ignore that Tropicana Field is a ****** stadium in quite possibly the worst area that would be conducive to good attendance. Their TV ratings are fantastic, give them a decent place to watch a game in a more centrally located area and they're drawing at least 30,000 a game.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Yes, and if they couldn't fill a new baseball stadium last year with low prices, and constantly don't fill out other sports then why is this going to be any different? Just because something is played less does not mean interest will automatically increase, especially if the new location ends up as bad as the old one was.

The Marlins average attendance was over 19,000 this season. That's....how large an MLS stadium would be.

And we're assuming the soccer stadium will be in a good location.....because that's what they are telling us.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Haven't we already learned that professional sports does not do well in Florida unless it's the NFL or Tampa Bay Lightnings. Both MLB teams should be moved out of the state and the two original MLS teams folded. Bad idea .

The Magic and Heat seem to be doing okay... hell, the Predators and Storm are still kicking after over 20 years.

From what I've seen of Orlando City, if they do it right Orlando could turn into another Portland for MLS (having seen a game in PDX in person as a neutral who just happened to be in town: if you're not impressed by the Timbers support, there's just no impressing you)

 

[Shrimper]

This'll be a good addition for the league. Having a team in Miami will not.

 

[PCSPounder]

The Marlins average attendance was over 19,000 this season. That's....how large an MLS stadium would be.

And we're assuming the soccer stadium will be in a good location.....because that's what they are telling us.

There's what the Marlins say they drew and then there's what actually happened.

Though, let's be fair... people in Miami probably wouldn't mind if Jeff Loria was dangled from an overhead beam within the reach of the bulls running in Pamplona.

If the better location can be had, and with some semblance of intelligence, they could do wonders in Miami. Waving Spice Boy around like he oozes fairy dust is not that good a strategy.

 

[Ugmo]

The Tampa Bay Mutiny were not well supported:

1996: 11,679
1997: 11,338
1998: 10,312
1999: 13,106
2000: 9,452
2001: 10,479
Total Average: 11,106

Miami Fusion was even worse:

1998: 10,284
1999: 8,689
2000: 7,460
2001: 11,177
Average: 9,403

But as stated before, the Fusion played in Fort Lauderdale, had a cash-strapped owner and began play when the league was in its darkest years. And the Mutiny never had an owner. Soccer in general is in a completely different position nowadays. I don't think the performance of the Mutiny and the Fusion has any bearing on how well Orlando and Miami 2.0 would do.

 

[nickp91]

I'm excited about Orlando getting an mls team because they have such a strong track record of supporting pro sports teams

 

[Fallenone]

I'm excited about Orlando getting an mls team because they have such a strong track record of supporting pro sports teams

Not from What I remember. I lived there 10 years. When the Magic were winning they had fans. When they were losing You couldn't give tickets away. The Orlando Solar Bear could only draw a crowd of 6 to 8 thousand on a good night the year they won the IHL championship. Then the Orlando Seals could only draw 3 to 4 thousand on a good night when they played in the ACHL. They won the championship and folded. Then the WNBA Team Folded. Orlando supports UCF, UF, and the Nole's. Pro Sports is crap shoot. Good Luck to them. They will need it.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Not from What I remember. I lived there 10 years. When the Magic were winning they had fans. When they were losing You couldn't give tickets away. The Orlando Solar Bear could only draw a crowd of 6 to 8 thousand on a good night the year they won the IHL championship. Then the Orlando Seals could only draw 3 to 4 thousand on a good night when they played in the ACHL. They won the championship and folded. Then the WNBA Team Folded. Orlando supports UCF, UF, and the Nole's. Pro Sports is crap shoot. Good Luck to them. They will need it.

You listed 1 actual pro team, and it's in a league where all the bad teams don't draw (11 teams drew under 85% last season in the NBA, compared to just 4 in the NHL!)

6 to 8K for the Solar Bears? That would've put them firmly in the top half of the AHL last year, potentially top 5 if you're leaning closer to 8 than 6.

http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance&season_id=40

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

When they were losing You couldn't give tickets away.

Sounds like every other professional sports franchise except a select few.

 

[Fallenone]

You listed 1 actual pro team, and it's in a league where all the bad teams don't draw (11 teams drew under 85% last season in the NBA, compared to just 4 in the NHL!)

6 to 8K for the Solar Bears? That would've put them firmly in the top half of the AHL last year, potentially top 5 if you're leaning closer to 8 than 6.

http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance&season_id=40

Well according to Rich DeVos Owner of the magic and the Solar Bears at the time that wasn't enough. And I did say "ON A Good Night" There many a night it was empty. In a Building that held 17000 people. Orlando is just not a Major League City. Nice place. Lots to offer. But it will always be The City a Mouse Built. And pro sports. people just don't stay long enough. Hardly anyone if from there. Every is from somewhere else. And once they start grow roots. They move.

 

[Fallenone]

Oh I forgot the Solar Bear had a chance to go to the AHL. But MR DeVos Said No. That is another story.

 

[gelu88]

Just like MLS, I'm not sure Miami is the same place it was before.

An interesting Statistic is that in 2012 Dade County added ~50,000 people.

~15% were born in europe, and ~15% were born in latin america.

that's 15,000 people is 2012 alone who are more likely than the general Miami population to enjoy Soccer.

These demographic trends, as well as the increased popularity of soccer in general, make comparisons to the previous teams unusable.

Also, the particularly unique experience live soccer provides adds an element the team can market around.
If you compare the atmosphere ~6000 OCSC fans brought to the Citrus Bowl vs the ~10,000 fans the Tampa Bay mutiny brought to Raymond jones, it's night and day.

Modern teams have learned from the past, and Supporters groups are an integral part of a team's identity, and one that can potentially bind a team to Floridians more than any in the past.

 

[Le Oranje]

Don't get why MLS wasn't interested in the team playing in a renovated Citrus Bowl.

And re: the Magic...they seem to be in the middle of the pack attendance wise every year, including the years they made the NBA Finals ('94-'95 and '08-'09).

 

[Cirris]

Don't get why MLS wasn't interested in the team playing in a renovated Citrus Bowl.

And re: the Magic...they seem to be in the middle of the pack attendance wise every year, including the years they made the NBA Finals ('94-'95 and '08-'09).

MLS business model for the past ten years has been to get all their teams into Soccer Specific Stadiums that are about 20K in seating capacity.

They want to get away from the days where they are playing in gigantic empty football stadiums with the field painted up with white grids and colored endzones and you have to squint to see the yellow soccer lines. it was a hideous thing to watch on TV and the atmosphere in those stadiums sucked cause fans were spread apart and too far away from the pitch/field.

It made the league look amateurish and garage-like.

For a money standpoint it's easier to sell luxury suites and preferred seating when you're building the stadium with soccer being the primary tenant.

You also don't have to fight for scheduling dates with NFL/College Football teams who usually get first choice.

 

[FuriousSenator]

Ottawa could be a good candidate city as well.

Brand new FIFA ready stadium going up in time for next year with all the accoutrements for an NASL franchise already in place.

If Ottawa can fill the house, I expect us to get some serious consideration for expansion (or is that 'promotion'?).

 

[Samkow]

Well according to Rich DeVos Owner of the magic and the Solar Bears at the time that wasn't enough. And I did say "ON A Good Night" There many a night it was empty. In a Building that held 17000 people. Orlando is just not a Major League City. Nice place. Lots to offer. But it will always be The City a Mouse Built. And pro sports. people just don't stay long enough. Hardly anyone if from there. Every is from somewhere else. And once they start grow roots. They move.

The Solar Bears (and the Kansas City Blades) not going to the AHL after the IHL folded had more to do with the DeVos already owning Grand Rapids than anything else.

 

[Ugmo]

Ottawa could be a good candidate city as well.

Brand new FIFA ready stadium going up in time for next year with all the accoutrements for an NASL franchise already in place.

If Ottawa can fill the house, I expect us to get some serious consideration for expansion (or is that 'promotion'?).

I just said this in the San Antonio thread on Big Soccer, but I don't think there is any way that Garber will cap expansion at 24 teams. There is no reason why he wouldn't keep going to 30 or 32 like the other major sports leagues. That leaves plenty of room for Sacramento, San Antonio, St. Louis (if they ever get their act together), Atlanta, Miami and other Canadian markets as well, provided they have everything in place.

 

[gelu88]

Ottawa could be a good candidate city as well.

Brand new FIFA ready stadium going up in time for next year with all the accoutrements for an NASL franchise already in place.

If Ottawa can fill the house, I expect us to get some serious consideration for expansion (or is that 'promotion'?).

As a canadian I am certainly excited to see the Fury start up, but in terms of MLS its not likely.

There are dozens of american markets more attractive to the league than coming back to Canada.

Not only the market itself but in terms of media rights and network effects with other cities.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

This is pretty good attendance for a third level soccer team, and trending in the right direction:

(source: wikipedia article on Orlando City FC)

Season League Regular Season Attendance
(reg. season) Attendance
(playoffs)
2011 USL PRO 1st Place 5,265 9,043
2012 USL PRO 1st Place 6,606 7,887
2013 USL PRO 2nd Place 8,197 12,761

@Fallenone - did the humidity finally get to you? You seem to have a pronounced disaffection for the place...

 

[Fallenone]

The Solar Bears (and the Kansas City Blades) not going to the AHL after the IHL folded had more to do with the DeVos already owning Grand Rapids than anything else.

No. His main angle was He wanted a brand New Stadium for the Magic. Even though the City of Orlando was still on the Hook for the Stadium they were in. But He didn't plan well. The Luxury Boxes were in the wrong place. The Bulls built their Stadium at the same time. It showed just how much more money it could make. So Mr. DeVos pulled all the add money for the Solar Bears and the WNBA Team. Like some one pointed out their numbers were not bad. They did win the Turner Cup that last Year. Too Bad Orlando Didn't know it had a Hockey Team. DeVos used them and their fans as Pawns. But the Tax Payers did bit the bullet and paid the note on the old Stadium. laid off some teacher, cops firemen. Built a New State of the Art Stadium. Oh I hear Mr Devos became a Hockey fan again and brought back the Solar Bears. To the ECHL.

 

[Mightygoose]

MLS team for Orlando officially announced.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/orlando-awarded-mls-expansion-franchise/

Expected to start in 2015.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Worst kept secret in the league finally official.

And rumors of LeBron James and David Beckham being in early conversations about putting a team in Miami might soon give them an in-state rival, too.

 

[Brodie]

The Miami team is now a foregone conclusion.

I'm guessing they'll wait to decide between Atlanta and Minneapolis