OT: Following the NBA lockout UPD (circa 1am PT 11/26): tentative agreement reached

worstfaceoffmanever

These Snacks Are Odd
Jun 2, 2007
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healthy baseball teams?? :laugh: yeah, maybe around 1/4 - 1/3 of the teams have a letigimate shot at winning, and if the lower-spending teams win a year or 2, they can't sustain it because all their home-grown talent will sign with NY or Boston. (tell me this isn't true).

"Healthy" means all those teams make money, which they do. But to your point about competition: since 2001 (inclusive), 14 different teams have appeared in the World Series, and there have been 9 unique champions. The same cannot be said for the NBA, where there is little, if any revenue sharing and a total indifference to player development in the league's central office.

I think the league needs to put a big push behind the D-League and developing a feeder system for the NBA that extends beyond a player's college experience. They don't develop by sitting on the bench and playing sparse minutes, and having a system exclusively dedicated to the developmental process will make for a better overall product and will help smaller teams be able to compete.

Of course, the NBA is far too short-sighted to do anything like that.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Is this new? Does this mean player escrow has been capped at 10% ? Small consolation for sure, and with the byzantine nature of their cap rules and exceptions, the owners must feel comfortable they can contain those costs reasonably well. But technically, the owners have surrendered full cost certainty after a 10% margin of error?

Heck of a trade-off, but an otherwise philosophically intriguing concession?

This is new.

Under the old CBA, the escrow was set at 8-10%, but in the case of an overage in excess of the escrow funds that excess was taken from the players the following year. That case happened only once - in '08-'09, when the $220M overage exceeded the $194M escrow and the players paid an extra $26M in '09-'10.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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"Healthy" means all those teams make money, which they do. But to your point about competition: since 2001 (inclusive), 14 different teams have appeared in the World Series, and there have been 9 unique champions. The same cannot be said for the NBA, where there is little, if any revenue sharing and a total indifference to player development in the league's central office.

I think the league needs to put a big push behind the D-League and developing a feeder system for the NBA that extends beyond a player's college experience. They don't develop by sitting on the bench and playing sparse minutes, and having a system exclusively dedicated to the developmental process will make for a better overall product and will help smaller teams be able to compete.

Of course, the NBA is far too short-sighted to do anything like that.
As if the Colleges wouldn't fight that to the core.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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A couple of Wojnarowski pieces from Yahoo:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_china_nba_players_112811
China could block NBA players return
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 4 hours, 16 minutes ago

The Chinese Basketball Association is showing no inclination to let unhappy NBA players out of their contracts for the 2011-12 season, and will likely mandate they not receive clearance letters to return to the NBA until the Chinese season ends in March, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Wilson Chandler(notes), Kenyon Martin(notes), J.R. Smith(notes) and Aaron Brooks(notes) are the four top NBA players under contract in China, and several sources involved in those contract entanglements said escape clauses won’t be allowed with the impending end of the NBA lockout.

The Chinese Basketball Association passed a rule that its teams could sign only NBA free agents during the lockout, and it was made clear to those players they would have to play the full season to be given FIBA clearance letters to sign contracts with NBA teams.

...

As a member of FIBA, the NBA needs a letter of clearance from Chinese teams to allow players to sign NBA deals. Chinese teams could face forfeiture of any games that NBA players participated in, if the players somehow end up back in the NBA before the Chinese season ends.

“If they think that they’re going to make things difficult, not play, create problems, what’s going to happen is that the teams will not release their letters of clearance they’ll need to sign in the NBA,†a Chinese Basketball Association official told Yahoo! Sports. “There’s no way out.â€

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_draft_rule_112611
Committee could study NBA draft rule
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports Nov 27, 12:20 am EST

The NBA and Players Association are discussing the formation of a committee to study the age minimum for the league’s draft with the possibility that no immediate changes to the “one-and-done†rule will come in the finalization of the new collective bargaining agreement, a league official told Yahoo! Sports.

“Only the agreement to have the committee may be part of the new CBA,†the source said. “I doubt it will have any affect on the 2012 draft.â€

...

The draft’s age rule is considered one of several “B-list†issues that were tabled in settlement talks, but must be resolved in negotiations before the league and players can get a signed agreement. The NBA and its players must still negotiate several more issues, including drug testing and NBA Developmental League assignments. The shelving of the age minimum debate buys the league more time to deal with the high-profile and impactful issue.

For now, the rule calls for American-born players to turn 19 during the calendar year of the draft and be one year removed from their high school graduating class. Since its inception, the rule has created an era in college basketball known as the “one-and-done,†where many top players have spent one year on campus before leaping to the NBA.

Within the NBA, there’s a growing movement to create a rule similar to Major League Baseball, which requires college players to stay three years before becoming eligible for the draft. Some NBA teams have suggested a system in which the age minimum for the draft would be 20. Under that scenario, non-international players also would have to wait until two years after their senior high school class has graduated.

The proposed committee would look at a system that would permit high school players to declare for the draft, and if players aren’t selected, they can retain eligibility and still play college basketball. Those players would have to wait two years to re-enter the draft. And once any player enters college, he has to wait two years until he can play in the NBA.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Finally, some reported details on the Amnesty clause:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...1_1_salary-cap-amnesty-program-bidding-system

The Sun Sentinel confirmed Sunday that instead of players being released under the league's "amnesty" provision going directly to the open market, a bidding system has been put in place for teams operating below the league's salary cap to add such players at a deep discount.

"That's what the clause is in there for," a party familiar with the impending process Sunday told the Sun Sentinel. "It's so the Lakers can't go in and scoop up all the players."

Under the amnesty program, a team can waive a player in order to remove his salary from its salary cap and luxury tax, while still paying out the balance of that contract. It had been widely assumed that such players then would immediately hit the open market.

That could have positioned the Miami Heat to add players such as Baron Davis, Rashard Lewis, Brendan Haywood or Brandon Roy at the NBA salary minimum, with the players' previous teams still paying their full salaries. (Team-by-team decisions on specific players, if any, to receive amnesty releases will not be announced until after the CBA is ratified.)

However, in an outline of the proposed collective-bargaining agreement obtained by the Sun Sentinel, the NBA instead has instituted "a modified waiver process" that would allow teams operating below the salary cap to "submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player's remaining contract."

For example, while Lewis has two years at $44 million total remaining on his contract, a team currently operating below the salary cap could bid to pay Lewis $3 million in each of those years (with the Washington Wizards, who are expected to make Lewis available, then paying the balance of his salary).

"Some of it is still not 100-percent worked out," a party familiar with the impending policy told the Sun Sentinel.

edit: An SI piece with a link to a pdf with a summary of the principal terms of the proposed CBA:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/11/26/tentative.deal/index.html
 
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worstfaceoffmanever

These Snacks Are Odd
Jun 2, 2007
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As if the Colleges wouldn't fight that to the core.

When I said, "extends beyond a player's college experience," what exactly did you think I meant?

The idea I'm talking about is essentially the same as a guy playing college hockey for four years, or staying in major junior as an over-ager. Some of those guys take the long way, but make it to the NHL. David Desharnais and Rich Peverley are great examples of what I'm talking about; their equivalents in basketball don't have the opportunity to keep playing in well-structured, well-funded pro leagues and develop into NBA players. That sort of setup does not have to come at the expense of a player's collegiate career.

Furthermore, the NCAA has no real say. Even if the Association elicits input from the collegiate body, there's no guarantee that input will be taken into account. The league will do what it feels is in its best interest, which, of course, has nothing to do with improving professional basketball as a whole. It's simply about scraping the customer bone dry at the top level rather than actually trying to improve the product.
 

HabsByTheBay

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Dec 3, 2010
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What is the NCAA going to do if the NBA started an actual development league?

Imagine if they agreed they would basically sign, en masse, the 100 best high school prospects and pay them $100,000 a year. Maybe even throw in a guarantee that they would fund a scholarship for kids who want to go to college eventually. That would cost chump change for every team.

It would be funny, only to see the NCAA drop its amateurism schtick like a hot potato.

healthy baseball teams?? yeah, maybe around 1/4 - 1/3 of the teams have a letigimate shot at winning, and if the lower-spending teams win a year or 2, they can't sustain it because all their home-grown talent will sign with NY or Boston. (tell me this isn't true).
1/4th of the teams in MLB (actually more than that) make the playoffs. 1/3rd? So which teams didn't think they had a chance? The Red Sox, White Sox, Twins, A's, Angels, Braves, Reds, Giants, Dodgers and Rockies had no chance eh?

I think that's being pretty conservative on who didn't have a chance and I'm already at 60% of the teams right there. That's even ignoring teams like Cleveland and Pittsburgh that were giving it their best for a couple months before fading away.
 

knorthern knight

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Mar 18, 2011
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What is the NCAA going to do if the NBA started an actual development league?

Imagine if they agreed they would basically sign, en masse, the 100 best high school prospects and pay them $100,000 a year. Maybe even throw in a guarantee that they would fund a scholarship for kids who want to go to college eventually. That would cost chump change for every team.

It would be funny, only to see the NCAA drop its amateurism schtick like a hot potato.
Does it have to be high school? I think an analogue to the AHL might be the way to go. This would give the big team a playing reserve to call up in case of injuries, and it wouldn't ruffle the feathers of the NCAA as much..
 

Fehr Time*

Guest
What is the NCAA going to do if the NBA started an actual development league?Imagine if they agreed they would basically sign, en masse, the 100 best high school prospects and pay them $100,000 a year. Maybe even throw in a guarantee that they would fund a scholarship for kids who want to go to college eventually. That would cost chump change for every team.

It would be funny, only to see the NCAA drop its amateurism schtick like a hot potato.

.

Unfortunately their is little incentive for the NBA to finance this when the NCAA does it for them for free. It would definitely be nice to see these athletes get paid for their services though.
 

IU Hawks fan

They call me IU
Dec 30, 2008
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Unfortunately their is little incentive for the NBA to finance this when the NCAA does it for them for free. It would definitely be nice to see these athletes get paid for their services though.

Mark it down, people. Fehr Time said something I agree with! :handclap:
 

chasespace

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Jul 19, 2010
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Unfortunately their is little incentive for the NBA to finance this when the NCAA does it for them for free. It would definitely be nice to see these athletes get paid for their services though.

I'm actually with you on this one.
I know some students who got athletic scholarships(full ride) that get paid in a round about way as they still receive the other grants and scholarships they qualified for. The athletic scholarships pays for everything regarding school(and dorm if you choose to stay there) and they pocket the rest of the money.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Not quite. The CBA still has some open issues to be resolved - including HGH testing and draft age - but those are being deferred.

http://www.mercurynews.com/other-sports/ci_19493635

The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement opens the door to blood testing for human growth hormone -- provided the league and players union can agree on the reliability of the test.

Mike Bass, a spokesman for the NBA, said Wednesday that the union and the league have agreed to HGH testing "subject to the test being validated by a neutral committee of experts."

A draft of the new collective bargaining agreement that the players union sent to its members for ratification just refers to the "possibility" of a test being introduced.

The new NBA deal will also establish offseason testing for steroids.

Players began voting electronically on the proposed 10-year deal Wednesday. The NBA's Board of Governors meets in New York on Thursday and is expected to ratify the contract and a new revenue-sharing plan. Training camps and free-agent signings will begin Friday.

The league unveiled an abbreviated 66-game regular-season schedule Tuesday that begins Dec. 25.

Under the deal, players will receive 51.2 percent of basketball-related income (BRI) this season. Future splits run from 49 percent and 51 percent. Last season, the league had $4.3 billion in revenue, with players receiving 57 percent of BRI.

Not all issues were completed, though. The players association and league will form committees to study HGH testing, workplace rules and issues relating to the draft such as age limit, the union said.
 

KzooShark

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Jun 3, 2004
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And the same day that stuff is decided, the NBA owners force Stern to block a trade of Chris Paul from the NBA owned Hornets to the Lakers.

Hey, owners: If you didn't want the continuing trek of star players gathering in 6 cities, you should have addressed it in the CBA, like the one that the ink is still drying on.
 

Fehr Time*

Guest
And the same day that stuff is decided, the NBA owners force Stern to block a trade of Chris Paul from the NBA owned Hornets to the Lakers.

Hey, owners: If you didn't want the continuing trek of star players gathering in 6 cities, you should have addressed it in the CBA, like the one that the ink is still drying on.

Stern's a disaster AFAIK. Best case scenario is that this 'victory' for the owners blows up in their face. Serves these egomaniacs right.
 

Nuclear SUV

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Jun 1, 2008
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Stern's a disaster AFAIK.


Exactly. David Stern's NBA bends over backwards to save dying, tiny, ownerless Hornets while doing everything in their power to force the Sonics out of Seattle. This Paul situation is more carryover from the Sonics situation. New Orleans is such a pathetic market, the NBA is forced to own that franchise. The Hornets should have been allowed to relocate to OKC. David Stern has been a pathetic commissioner, easily the worst major sports commissioner of the modern era.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Mar 4, 2002
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Re: CP3

Stern's a disaster AFAIK. Best case scenario is that this 'victory' for the owners blows up in their face. Serves these egomaniacs right.

ABSOLUTELY AND FACTUALLY INCORRECT..... you just sold New Orleans on the NBA W/ 10k TICKETS Sold, than take probably the most marketable asset you HAVE and deal him just as the season begins.... even Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert and Mavs owner Cuban said no to this..... why would you not have a marketable asset such as CP3, IF TEMPORARILY the league owns the franchise..... remember, that is the exact reason the Hornets left Charlotte, if you're going to have an owner within the year, I don't remember the Knicks being in LA, which is where CP 3 wants to be just like Denver had to contend w/ Melo being a distraction.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Exactly. David Stern's NBA bends over backwards to save dying, tiny, ownerless Hornets while doing everything in their power to force the Sonics out of Seattle. This Paul situation is more carryover from the Sonics situation. New Orleans is such a pathetic market, the NBA is forced to own that franchise. The Hornets should have been allowed to relocate to OKC. David Stern has been a pathetic commissioner, easily the worst major sports commissioner of the modern era.

the Sonics/Thunder weren't forced out of Seattle and landed in OKC, Nuclear, nor were the Hornets for sale when Katrina shut down tht city when it did, the NBA asked OKC if they were willing to help "host" the Hornets while New Orleans recovered..... same thing happened w/ the Saints going to San Antonio's Alamodome while the Mercedes-Benz Superdome was a shelter, then had to be repaired to be an entertainment facility as it was designed..... the reason the Thunder are now in OKC IS DUE TO THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS of how the State of Washington said yes, to the Mariners/Seahawks, REPLACED the Kingdome, W/ THE CURRENT facilities, which helped Seattle land the Sounders, because it's doubtful they'd want to be in a dome, they had already retrofitted Key @ Seattle Center in 1979, which is why the Sonics had to play elsewhere in that area.....
 

MaskedSonja

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Feb 3, 2007
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http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/13/4120480/rush-for-christmas-start-leaves.html#mi_rss=Sports

League in disarray - trades, signings, questioning lockout (with CBA so similar lots of questions why there was one), rush to open by Christmas

Doesn't surprise me-I do think this was totally rushed through, and I believe that it's a 10 year CBA with opt outs from both sides at 5 years correct?

I'm going to make a prediction, which I don't often do: The Owners are going to opt out of this in five years, and in the next firve years at least one franchise will fold or relocate.
 

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