OT: Following the NBA lockout UPD (circa 1am PT 11/26): tentative agreement reached

Timmy

Registered User
Feb 2, 2005
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OpEd from Chisholm at TSN:

With only hours left until we reach a seemingly inevitable NBA lockout, I think I've finally found the philosophical division that is pulling the two sides apart in their attempts to cut a deal to avoid missing games next season.

While the practical concerns about BRI, revenue sharing, cap exceptions and whether or not to have a hard cap are the practical issues that need to be sorted through to get a new deal into place, the philosophical division is the one that lies at the heart of what both sides are negotiating. The narrative both sides have settled on for this CBA fight, it would seem, is the dissolution of the NBA's middle-class, and how the owners demand it and the players refuse to give it up.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=370477
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/s...alks-deadlocked-nba-heads-for-a-shutdown.html

With Talks Deadlocked, N.B.A. Heads for a Lockout
By HOWARD BECK
Published: June 30, 2011

...

Negotiators for the owners and the players union made a final attempt to broker a new labor deal Thursday afternoon, but they separated after three hours without an agreement to bridge a gap of several billion dollars.

Commissioner David Stern told union officials that he would urge owners to impose a lockout at midnight Thursday, when the current collective bargaining agreement expires, said Derek Fisher, the president of the players association.

Players and teams will be barred from contact with each other. Paychecks and health care will be suspended indefinitely. And all league business will cease until the owners and players find the means to overcome their philosophical and economic differences.

...

It could take months, if history is any guide. The last time the N.B.A. shut down, in 1998, it took more than six months to reach a deal, causing the league to lose games to a labor stoppage for the first time. After that lockout ended, on Jan. 6, 1999, the N.B.A. staged a condensed, 50-game season from February to May.

...

The league has enjoyed relative labor peace since the last lockout, renewing its collective bargaining agreement in 2005 with only modest changes and without an interruption of league business.

This time, though, owners are seeking a major overhaul of the league’s economic system and players are resisting any significant changes. The parties have hardly moved from their positions in the last 18 months of talks. Owners are insisting on a hard salary cap, shorter contracts and up to a 38 percent reduction in player salaries — which would represent the most dramatic changes to the system since the league first adopted the so-called soft salary cap in 1984.

Despite annual revenues estimated at $3.8 billion, owners say the existing system is broken. Twenty-two of 30 teams are losing money, with league wide losses exceeding $300 million a year, N.B.A. officials say. The players union disputes the figure and contends that the league could solve most of the problem with greater revenue sharing.

The players have nevertheless proposed a $100 million annual reduction in salaries, cutting their share of revenues to 54.3 percent, from 57 percent. Stern has dismissed that offer as modest. The league wants a 50-50 split of basketball-related revenues, but with a new formula that the union contends would reduce their share to below 40 percent.

...

Billy Hunter, executive director of the players association, said the union had no plans to decertify, a move made by the the N.F.L. players association, and said that the N.B.A. players would instead continue negotiating. The two sides agreed to meet again soon, possibly in the next two weeks. The union is also awaiting an NLRB ruling on its unfair-labor practice complaint, which could change the parameters of the discussion.

Meanwhile, both sides are keeping an eye on the N.F.L.’s case before the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis that will decide whether the N.F.L. lockout is ended. That decision could impact the N.B.A.’s proceedings and the union’s determination whether to decertify.

“When the Eighth Circuit rules, there will be a lot more information for everybody,†said Jeffrey Kessler, the N.B.P.A.’s outside counsel, who is also involved with the N.F.L. players’ case.The lockout comes as the N.B.A. is coming off a captivating season, with record-setting ratings and revenue and a renewed interest among casual fans because of the rise of the Miami Heat and a rising crop of new stars. The league’s popularity is perhaps at its highest point since Michael Jordan retired in 1998.
 

No Fun Shogun

34-38-61-10-13-15
May 1, 2011
56,091
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Illinois
Honestly expecting a long, long lockout for the NBA, potentially even one that engulfs the entire season and postseason. The sides are very far apart, the players want too much, and the owners want to take too much back. I'd actually be surprised if there was NBA basketball at all in the remainder of 2011 and would be absolutely shocked if the season starts relatively close to on time.
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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I wonder if the NBA owners will dare to chance losing a whole season-they might see that the NHL lost a season, and came back with (according to the NHL) increasing revenues year after year, and decide it's worth playing hardball to get what they want.

The question is, would the NBA fans be willing to rebound the way NHL fans did?
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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I'm going to be very interested to see, depending on how ugly this gets, if there gets a division between to the "haves" and the "havenots"-didn't Lebron say earlier this year (before retracting) something along the lines of that he was okay with contraction of some teams? Nevermind if it's off the board or not, one wonders how much possible animosity may be between the Superstar tier and the "just trying to make a living (for NBA) tier.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
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oh yeah more highlights on espn now ;)

NBA TV is also all over this w/ DA AND a member of the SI Legal....

keep in mind, the 1st missed check is not until 11/15.


the 95 SEASON went 4 months w/o a CBA and the 98/99 SEASON WAS REDUCED to 50 GAMES bc of a similar impasse; never know this may be a short lockout......
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
10,998
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El Paso, TX
Honestly expecting a long, long lockout for the NBA, potentially even one that engulfs the entire season and postseason. The sides are very far apart, the players want too much, and the owners want to take too much back. I'd actually be surprised if there was NBA basketball at all in the remainder of 2011 and would be absolutely shocked if the season starts relatively close to on time.

We can only hope. While I don't think the NFL lockout alone helps the NHL, the NBA is a direct competitor to the NHL in terms of when they play, length of season, TV eyeballs, and in markets where they have both NBA and NHL teams, competition for attendance/coverage.

I think it would be good for the NHL to have the NBA season canceled, and simply icing on the cake if the NFL is canceled as well.
 

guyincognito

Registered User
Mar 21, 2007
31,300
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They sound like they're digging in. NBAPA says the offers are "worse than hockey's".

alright, the initial setup of the CBA was pretty brutal for the players, but the end result of it was pretty fair, as long as you missed the lost wages and the 25% cut off the top. and really the players had themselves to blame because they got themselves into a situation where they capitulated to basically a worse offer than the initial one. which is unheard of stupid.

it sucked for those guys, sure. :laugh:
 

Bauer Warrior*

Guest
I am as far from being a basketball fan as one can get. Yes, there is a very good chance that the NHL gets to monpolize the sports world for the first time ever after the World Series is complete, but I don't really take a great deal of joy in that, because we are the next in line. The NHL CBA expries in 2012, and even if the upcomiming season goes great, the NHL has done horrible in terms of capatalizing on opportunities. Things were going great in '94 after the Rangers won the Cup, but then there was a lockout for four months. It's not beyond the NHL to give every shred of popularity back. That concerns me. I think we're in trouble in 2012.
 

Luigi Habs

Captain Saku
Jul 30, 2005
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In basketball, NBA players have other options in Europe. The gap between NBA and Europe's basketball is not that huge like in hockey, so players have other options and will get well paid in Europe. I see the NBA losing more than the players if they stay in lockout the entire season.
 

GreenHornet

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Mar 3, 2011
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Norcross, GA
I hope the lockout lasts a good long while, and Atlanta $pirit Group (which still owns the Hawks and the operating rights to Philips Arena) take a huge financial hit. Good luck trying fill an empty barn for 80-plus dates now, ya jagoffs.
 

AdmiralsFan24

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Mar 22, 2011
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In basketball, NBA players have other options in Europe. The gap between NBA and Europe's basketball is not that huge like in hockey, so players have other options and will get well paid in Europe. I see the NBA losing more than the players if they stay in lockout the entire season.

The Euroleague is not going to go out and sign a bunch of NBA players to contracts. Their offseason already started and their rosters are filling up if they aren't already filled. There's no room for NBA players.
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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Ric Bucher of ESPN says "the owners don't care if they have to miss an entire season."

If that's the case, that suggests to me the owners feel "hey, the NHL cancelled a season and survived, so can we". They watched the NHL owners get a hard cap, and they probably feel they can do same.

Might be a long time before the NBA starts up again.
 

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