OT: Following the NBA lockout UPD (circa 1am PT 11/26): tentative agreement reached

Street Hawk

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Feb 18, 2003
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Tentative Deal per ESPN. Still needs to be ratified. 66 game schedule.

Be interesting to see what the player's share of the revenues will be, not to mention what exemptions still exist for veteran players.
 

Sarcastic

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Sep 18, 2011
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NOT THIS WAY, NOT THIS WAY! DAMMIT!

Oh well, was hoping it wouldn't start until mid February so that the NHL had a week or so of uncontested rule on the sports scene.
 

No Fun Shogun

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2011 is making the NHL lockout look more and more like a joke with each passing day.

First the NFL ends their lockout with a whole single preseason game lost, then the MLB agrees to a new CBA while their old one is still in place and guarantees two freaking decades of labor peace, and now the NBA looks like they're going to salvage a good 4/5 of their season.

Makes you wonder how much 2004-05 could've been for the NHL if the two sides weren't headed up by pig-headed morons at times....
 

LadyStanley

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Sounds like they're planning a 66-game season. (Originally estimated a month from agreement to "start" of season. Camp, preseason between.)

darrenrovell 1:32am via Web
Salaries lost w/16 fewer games played: Kobe $4.92 million, Duncan $4.15 million, Carmelo $3.61 million, LeBron $3.12 million.

darrenrovell 1:31am via Web
On a 66-game season, the average NBA player has lost paychecks of about $1 million.
 

Sanderson

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2011 is making the NHL lockout look more and more like a joke with each passing day.

First the NFL ends their lockout with a whole single preseason game lost, then the MLB agrees to a new CBA while their old one is still in place and guarantees two freaking decades of labor peace, and now the NBA looks like they're going to salvage a good 4/5 of their season.

Makes you wonder how much 2004-05 could've been for the NHL if the two sides weren't headed up by pig-headed morons at times....

Only that it wasn't a joke. Look at where the leagues were at that point.
-The MLB has a very soft cap, with a luxury tax that is reached by few teams, but they have boatloads of money anyway.
-The NFL had a cap (which took a lockout and replacements to get) and has money coming out of it's rear, it simply isn't worth it to lose some of the very few games when you are making money anyway.
-The NBA had a soft-cap linked to revenue, they wanted a hard cap and didn't get it even with missing quite a few games. They still have a soft-cap linked to revenue, with percentages getting lower.
-The NHL had neither a cap nor anything like it. They had an extremely high percentage of revenues go to the players and not nearly as much money as the other leagues.

All in all, the NHL wanted/needed a whole new system, the other leagues all had some minor changes to the CBA compared to that. Of course you don't see as much of a season go down the drain when you have lesser issues to handle.
Certainly things could have gone better, but I don't think the other leagues would have fared any better if they were in the same situation.
 

Reality Check

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2011 is making the NHL lockout look more and more like a joke with each passing day.

First the NFL ends their lockout with a whole single preseason game lost, then the MLB agrees to a new CBA while their old one is still in place and guarantees two freaking decades of labor peace, and now the NBA looks like they're going to salvage a good 4/5 of their season.

Makes you wonder how much 2004-05 could've been for the NHL if the two sides weren't headed up by pig-headed morons at times....

While so many were celebrating around here, I said from day one that both the NFL and NBA would play this season.

The NFL might miss the preseason and a few games and perhaps the NBA only plays half a season. But both leagues weren't dumb enough to pull what the NHL did.

No matter how long it had to take.
 

KzooShark

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Jun 3, 2004
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2011 is making the NHL lockout look more and more like a joke with each passing day.

First the NFL ends their lockout with a whole single preseason game lost, then the MLB agrees to a new CBA while their old one is still in place and guarantees two freaking decades of labor peace, and now the NBA looks like they're going to salvage a good 4/5 of their season.

Makes you wonder how much 2004-05 could've been for the NHL if the two sides weren't headed up by pig-headed morons at times....

They went from no cost control on salaries to a hard cap and linkage between league revenue and said salary cap.

The NFL managed it more easily in 1993 because they broke the union in 1987 with replacement players and offered free agency in return. Since the NHL had already allowed free agency previously, they had nothing worth offering to trade for a hard cap and they had to do it the hard way.
 

MaskedSonja

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Can someone clarify?

My understanding was the union disbanded, and therefore could not negotiate while being disbanded. What did I misunderstand here that they seem to have a tenative agreement in place?

Just seems really strange that, as I said earlier post, the media has played this out like there were huge gulf between players and owners-now apparently all of a sudden (again according to media) they have a tenative agreement?
 

Acesolid

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Sep 21, 2010
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Can someone clarify?

My understanding was the union disbanded, and therefore could not negotiate while being disbanded. What did I misunderstand here that they seem to have a tenative agreement in place?

Just seems really strange that, as I said earlier post, the media has played this out like there were huge gulf between players and owners-now apparently all of a sudden (again according to media) they have a tenative agreement?

They had started the process, and weren't yet at the ''point of no return''.

Like I said earlier, the players had to back away ASAP (which they did) or the whole season would have been lost.
 

MaskedSonja

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They had started the process, and weren't yet at the ''point of no return''.

Like I said earlier, the players had to back away ASAP (which they did) or the whole season would have been lost.

Okay, thanks-it was my misunderstanding, I though they had already gone past point of no return, thanks for clarifying :)
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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While so many were celebrating around here, I said from day one that both the NFL and NBA would play this season.

The NFL might miss the preseason and a few games and perhaps the NBA only plays half a season. But both leagues weren't dumb enough to pull what the NHL did.

No matter how long it had to take.

David Stern said after the NHL Lockout that there was no circumstance where he would ever allow an entire season to be lost.


Looks like the players weren't interested in testing him on that theory.


One of the concerning things I'm seeing after the NFL and NBA lockouts is how high the salary floor has gone up. The NHL has some teams having trouble getting up to the one they have. NFL is like 98% of the cap or something, NBA it will be 65%. NHL is at 75%. I wonder of Donald Fehr forces that to go up.
 

Fehr Time*

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David Stern said after the NHL Lockout that there was no circumstance where he would ever allow an entire season to be lost.


Looks like the players weren't interested in testing him on that theory.


One of the concerning things I'm seeing after the NFL and NBA lockouts is how high the salary floor has gone up. The NHL has some teams having trouble getting up to the one they have. NFL is like 98% of the cap or something, NBA it will be 65%. NHL is at 75%. I wonder of Donald Fehr forces that to go up.

Hopefully Mr. Fehr forces the ceiling too go away too :)

Teams can get to the subscribed floors just fine with significant revenue sharing. This is an owner vs owner thing though.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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Actually, it's 85% to the cap first two years, and 90% all years following that. The problem is that might lead to dumber contracts the way the NHL's cap is set up.

Hopefully Mr. Fehr forces the ceiling too go away too :)

That's simply not going to happen.
 

Fugu

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Actually, it's 85% to the cap first two years, and 90% all years following that. The problem is that might lead to dumber contracts the way the NHL's cap is set up.



That's simply not going to happen.


To what do your percentages refer?
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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It looks like the revenue split is basically where it was in the NBA's last offer, resolution of the contentious system issues not yet clear, and some smaller B-list issues yet to be resolved.

N.B.A. Reaches Tentative Deal To Save Season

With handshakes, sighs and weary smiles, the N.B.A. and its players resolved a crippling labor dispute early Saturday, allowing them to reopen their $4-billion-a-year business. A 66-game season would start on Christmas Day, ending the second-longest lockout in league history.

On nearly every count, the deal favors the owners, who all along had sought an overhaul. The players made significant concessions, including a reduction of up to $300 million year in salaries, $3 billion over the life of the agreement.

Based on tentative agreements reached earlier, the deal is expected to be for 10 years, the longest such contract in the history of the National Basketball Association, with an option for either side to terminate it after six years. It includes a significant pay cut for players, along with shorter contracts, smaller raises and a more punitive tax system to rein in the top-spending teams.

The deal was reached about 3 a.m. Saturday, on the 149th day of the lockout, after a final 15-hour bargaining session at the law offices of Weil, Gotshal & Manges in Midtown Manhattan.

“We’ve reached a tentative understanding that is subject to a variety of approvals and very complex machinations,†the league’s commissioner, David Stern, said, “but we’re optimistic that that will all come to pass, and that the N.B.A. season will begin on Dec. 25, Christmas Day, with a tripleheader.â€

It is expected that training camps and free agency will open simultaneously on Dec. 9, giving teams two weeks to prepare.

The three Dec. 25 games are likely to be the ones that were on the schedule: the Boston Celtics at the Knicks, followed by the Miami Heat at the Dallas Mavericks and the Chicago Bulls at the Los Angeles Lakers. The rest of the schedule will be reconstructed and released in the coming days.

...

But much needs to be done before the basketballs hit the court.

Officials on both sides must still negotiate myriad so-called B-list issues, including drug testing, the minimum age and the use of the Development League, and the entire collective bargaining agreement must be formally constructed.

The deal must be ratified by a simple majority of the 30 teams and a simple majority of the 430-plus players. Before that can happen, the parties must dispose of two pending lawsuits, and the players must reconstitute their union, which was dissolved on Nov. 14.

...

The deal will feature a 50-50 split of revenues, but with the possibility of the players making as much as 51 percent or as little as 49, depending on whether the league exceeds or falls short of projections. The players had been earning 57 percent.

It is unclear at this point how the final, thorny issues — primarily regarding limits on teams paying the luxury tax, and other restrictions on free agency — were resolved.

Generally, the agreement will curtail sign-and-trade deals, eliminate extend-and-trade deals and place several new limits on teams that pay the luxury tax. In that respect, the owners will have achieved their two broad goals: to reduce spending leaguewide and to promote competitive balance by shrinking the spending gap between the richest and poorest teams.

...

But the dialogue never truly ended, even amid the litigation, according to one person involved in the talks. And it was the lateness of the calendar, more than the lawsuit, that drove the parties back together last week.

The final push came with the involvement of a new figure: Jim Quinn, a former outside counsel to the players union, who was hired by Mr. Hunter last week to help restart the talks.

Mr. Quinn essentially replaced Jeffrey Kessler — the current outside counsel — as the lead negotiator for the players when the parties resumed talks on Tuesday. That meeting set the stage for Friday’s critical session.

N.B.A. officials regarded Mr. Kessler as a contentious negotiator who was an impediment to a deal. Mr. Quinn, a partner at the Weil, Gotshal law firm, is highly regarded by all parties and has a strong rapport with league officials, most notably Mr. Stern.
 

MaskedSonja

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It looks like the revenue split is basically where it was in the NBA's last offer, resolution of the contentious system issues not yet clear, and some smaller B-list issues yet to be resolved.

N.B.A. Reaches Tentative Deal To Save Season

So, basically this is the same deal that the players considered very poor and very unfair? Owners get their 50-50 split that they wanted.

Makes me wonder what NHL owners are thinking now........"Hmmmm, 50 percent of revenues for players, they'll accept that easily!" :sarcasm:
 

Grudy0

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Mar 16, 2011
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So, basically this is the same deal that the players considered very poor and very unfair? Owners get their 50-50 split that they wanted.
Which means the decert was for show. Once decertified, it appears the former players union members didn't like the prospect of a cancelled season.
Makes me wonder what NHL owners are thinking now........"Hmmmm, 50 percent of revenues for players, they'll accept that easily!" :sarcasm:
I'm unsure, especially when the league revenues have grown by leaps and bounds over the past six years since the lockout.
 

Fehr Time*

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Which means the decert was for show. Once decertified, it appears the former players union members didn't like the prospect of a cancelled season.I'm unsure, especially when the league revenues have grown by leaps and bounds over the past six years since the lockout.

They did in the NBA too though and there was a lockout. Apparently as revenues increase teams lose more money :laugh:

Maybe Thinkwild was on to something when he mentioned that perhaps owners need a revenue cap instead of a salary cap :naughty:
 

No Fun Shogun

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http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/26/4081177/nba-deal-should-help-sacramento.html#mi_rss=Sports

NBA deal should help Sacramento Kings "compete" with big market teams.

Says the opinion piece by a pair of Sacramento beat writers, you mean.

We'll see how pro-Sacramento the new deal is whenever the Kings and the city get back together and start talking about financing deals for a new arena again. If nothing happens, then don't be surprised to see them try to run elsewhere.
 

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