Orr and Brown

[newfy]

Yea Orr a couple of years ago was playing in a decent checking role in NY. Point being? Hatred is a terrible thing.

Orr like 4 years ago did actually get ice time and played a regular shift for sure, but Rupp is a guy who even recently is still playing probably around 7 minutes a game. Rupp is a better hockey player though. Rupp is one season removed from a 9 goal season, 2 less then Orr has had in his whole career.

I dont hate Colton Orr, why would I? Hes an entertaining fighter but hes useless in the NHL now. Theres probably less then 10 guys in the league that would actually fight him. The Leafs might as well hold onto him for this season for the tough teams but try to upgrade him. I agree the Leafs need to add some toughness but they should be looking at more of another Mike Brown type who can PK, skate fast and forecheck hard.

 

[masyo88*]

Orr was in the lineup for that game.



Yes, yes, the much debated Grabo not looking where he's going and skating into Neil play. He's prone to those bonehead suicidal plays as we've seen in the past. That doesn't necessarily make them cheapshots.



We had Rosehill warming the bench during this bout. Are you saying that Orr warming the bench in his stead would have made things much different?



These are the exact kind of spur of the moment events that a player who's benched for 57 mins of a game won't be able to do much about. Do you think Gleason would have fought Orr in the 2nd or the 3rd had he been in the lineup?



Orr was in the lineup for this game, the notorious night when Lebda went -3 in a 9-3 win. This is just Colby doing his job. Trolling players into penalties while turtling. It's unfortunate that he got poked in the eye during the process.



A coach who will stick up defend his players? I know, I know, after Wilson, not everyone is used to it, but it's not like Carlyle will call Orr out for being a plug. The icetime he gives him speaks louder than words ever could.

So you've managed to look up some fights from hockeyfights.com during the stretches when Orr was supposedly demoted. The fact that Orr was actually dressed for two of those fights just goes to prove my point that much more. Him warming the bench had no effect on Armstrong getting sucker punched, or Phaneuf getting trolled by Kaleta.

Here are some more examples of our stars/skilled players being forced to fight their own battles against plugs, and our prospect(s) (Schenn) getting beaten up while Orr, and Mayers/Excelby/Brown are sitting on the bench.

Fisher vs Versteeg (with Orr and Brown in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs Horton (with Orr and Brown in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs Newbury (with Orr in the lineup) why does our captain have to "fight" 4th line plugs with an enforcer present?

Schenn vs Glass (with Orr, Excelby, and Mayers in the linup) Great job protecting our prospects.

Schenn vs Neil (with Orr and Mayers in the lineup)

Kessel vs Russel (with Orr and Mayers in the lineup)

Phaneuf vs White (with Orr, and Excelby in the lineup)

Here's the thing, I have nothing against fighting, and nothing against Orr (other than the fact that he can't play the game at the NHL level). As a matter of fact, I love fights that are fueled by emotion and happen in the heat of the game. These staged fights where both combatants nod to each other before dropping the gloves pale in comparison.

When I think of protecting our young players/stars, I think of Phaneuf getting mugged RIGHT AFTER he rode Tavares into the boards. Orr cannot provide this for the club with his 3 mins of icetime. His staged fights are not doing much, as you can tell from above examples, our prospects/skilled players were forced to take matters into their own hands, often during games where Orr had already had a fight.

At the end of the day, I don't believe goons who can only play 3-5 mins a night bring much to the table, other than the sideshow entertainment of staged fights.

Firstly, that Garbo hit was a cheapshot. It just so happened that Neil lowered his shoulder and connected with Garbo right? Give me a break!

Rosehill does not bring the intimidation factor that Orr does. Case closed.

Really? A punch to face causing a broken nose is a spur of the moment thing? Not really it hardly if ever happens. If another team did that now, next shift Orr would find a punching bag mark my words.

Cowardly move by Eager knowing hed be out of the game and would not have to man up. He's been known to do that throughout his career. And it can't be Orrs fault Wilson didn't play him much after to do anything.

Also to the fights you posted, Schenn went after Neil for the fight, to stick him up for himself and other team mates. Kid has heart but was outclassed, right after this Orr and Crackner went, with Orr dropping him. All the other ones were fights off the draw, except the Phaneuf hit (which he destroyed White in the fight by the way) and the Versteeg one which was caused by Versteeg elbowing Fisher after a hit to start the fight. Nothing wrong with two guys agreeing to fight. None of the examples you posted really needed Orr to do anything cause the guys agreed to fight. If two guys want to go and they agree to it, its not a dirty or cheap shot play that deserves retribution. Unless one guy gets pummeled with shots after the fight and gloats the other teams bench. The only one you got a case on is the Newbury and Phaneuf one. Look at the stats of the game, we were being the more physical tea, and Newbury wanted to send a message.. Orr went on after and was begging for a fight but the Rangers wouldn't until he gooned it up with a nasty slash and roughed up a defense men and got kicked out of I remember correctly. Even after the game Tort's said that he was worried about his players cause of what Newbury did and how Orr was running around after that for some payback.http://rangers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2010020693


Fair enough, on the ones Orr was in line up for. But keep in mind Wilson didn't chose to retaliate last year. The two first years teams were rarely taking shots at us. He did not want to us to respond that way and he even said it. With quotes like " I don;t want to play the tough game, I want the speed game". " I don't care how big and fast you are its who gets to the puck first'. With Carlyle if you screw around with us, I guarantee you the next shift Orr and Brown are out there. Remember when Wilson had balls in the 2009/2010 season, when Carcillo was running around until Orr paid him a visit and after that he was quite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qzqIQDuL0 Or when Gaustad took a run at Kessl a few minutes later Orr pummels him and for the rest of the game the Sabres are quite. Gee I wonder why!

Also here are some other examples of leafs getting dummied.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1038116-toronto-maple-leafs-phil-kessel-gets-a-roughing-minor Couldn't find the video, but Travis sure didn't mind going after Kessel with No Orr in the lineup.

Or how about last year, when Matt Crackner was roughing up Joey Crabb behind the play.

Or how about Mr.Downie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCLYQRJTlzc He is one of those guys who is very quite when the other team is tough. Notice he never does crap against Boston.

Have you forgot the Boston and Phili games when they were targeting Kessel and Phaneuf. Getting into their faces and hitting them every time they could.

Face it without Orr and Brown in the line up our team is softer then jello. They are fourth line guys that keep the other team in check, and play decently for a fourth line to. Also fighting has gone up this year, we need to be armed. So far this year there has been 96 major penalties this season, at same point last season, 48. Check the stats bud, It's going to be a tough year, I'd rather have Orr on the team then not!

 

[peety16]

The last 3 posts ^ are classic examples of why Leafs fans are hated and called the worst fans in the NHL.

It's bad sportsmanship from Leafs fans like this that continually brings bad karma to the team.

Ya because you definitely won't find fans of the Bruins, Flyers, Rangers, or pretty much every fan base say the same the same thing. Give your head a shake.

 

[JimLaheyprobert]

How can a 4th line be a brightspot when it plays 3 mins......sure it can't get scored on from the bench.

Tell me which 4th line would you rather have ours or the Bruins 4th line.

I am not talking why they lost last night its not about last nights game its about a whole season and basically playing 3 lines cause the 4th line cannot play more than 5 mins a game.

There are many more problems but this one is easily addressed with players on the Marlies who can play a good grinding 4th line game and still chip in once and while.

What would you rather have, Orr and brown out of the lineup so the the bruins tough guys start running and pushing around our skill guys like they did last year and we lose 6-0. Or we have Orr and Brown in the lineup and they strike some fear in those guys eyes and then the bruins think twice about taking a cheap shot at our guys.

 

[JimLaheyprobert]

I know what you're saying, but wouldn't Boston want Orr to be on the ice against Lucic? He might have been scared of fighting him but other teams want Orr out there against their good players. The Leafs need more toughness that can actually hurt the other team on the score sheet.

Last time i checked those players are really hard to come by, thats why we drafted biggs and broll

 

[JimLaheyprobert]

No your right cause I watched Detroit the other night and man Zetterberg and Datsuyk were getting manhandled...hmmm wait that never happened.

Also saw the Hawks game and didn't see Toews, Hossa or Kane get manhandled.

Watched the Oilers last night and they didn't get manhandled with only 1 guy in the lineup Hordichuck.

I am not saying don't play one of them I am saying you don't need 2 of them in the lineup.

Don't forget if there is any shenanigans you also have Komi and Phaneuf who if really needed to avenge injustice to Kadri and Kessel can both do it. Sure you don't want Dion fighting but standing up for his teammates is what the captain has to do if necessary.

Every team you just mentioned is in the west, last time i checked the east is 10 times tougher, almost every team in the east has a tough guy.

 

[JimLaheyprobert]

Who cares who won the game? lol

Gotta love the we gotta goon it up to win hockey games mentality of some Leafs fans what a joke and a contributing factor why we are laughed at league wide.

Lets goon it up with Orr & Brown we gonna win games and make the playoffs!

Some of you clowns would love the UFC on skates yo fools.

Lmao buddy last year we got laughed at league wide and we were the softest team in the league, we got laughed at and beat up. At least this year we are tougher and not getting beat up. First of all i wanna say i obviously wanna win period. But the leafs arent that talented so id rather lose 5-2 and win two fights in that game then lose 8-0 and get our ***** beat while loseing. you guys need to seriously figure it out if u dont like the fighting in hockey watch soccer or something. Last time i checked hockey is still apart of hockey so guys like orr and brown are good to have. Dont blame the leafs loseing on them, blame it on the guys like phanuf who get paid over 5 mill and go minus 4, or kessel who has 2 assists in 4 games. This thread is a jk.

 

[Hawaiinleaf]

I agree if you can't beat them beat them up

 

[LeafsFIO*]

What's with the Orr hatred?

Everywhere I look on social media pertaining to the Leafs, there are a fair number of people who hate Orr's spot on the team and think he should be demoted.

"Ryan Hamilton would be better in his spot".."Keith Aucoin would be better in his spot".."any unproven AHLer would be better in his spot"..did I miss something here?

Last game, Orr played one shift in the last five minutes with Frattin and McClemment I believe, and it's the only time Toronto spent any time in the offencive zone between then and the fourth goal. How is Orr a negative on this team?

His skating is much improved. Not that it could have gotten any worse, but he's stronger on his skates now. He's a solid forechecker and, the problem for some people but an advantage to his game, he's an elite heavyweight.

Did people have fun seeing the Leafs get intimidated? Was it a good thing when Schenn was our second toughest player?

Maybe I'm missing something but for as long as Orr can play a regular shift and fight, I don't see an issue. Nobody seemed to make a peep about Rosehill and he couldn't play a regular shift to save his damn life.

No true hockey team loses a game because a goon makes them a three-line team. No AHLer can have an impact moreso than Orr. That's what I think, anyways. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[FlareKnight]

I'd like to properly respond to this, but I haven't seen much talk about Orr at all. Well besides during the games when he's fighting.

I think Orr is one of the last things people are or should be worrying about in regards to this team.

 

[masyo88*]

Cause we play in the toughest division in hockey with each team stacked with fighters, most of the other teams in the conference toughened up to, we got physically dominated and were the softest team in the NHL last year, and some fans don't want one of the toughest men In hockey watching over our players... makes perfect sense right?

Some of our fans are to dense to realize that soft, small, smurf hockey takes you so far, but at the end of the day if you don't have the toughness and grit you are not going anywhere. Look at Vancouver they traded Hodgson for Kassian, kept Weisse and have Volappati on the fourth line. They needed to get tougher and they did. Montreal realized that soft hockey takes you so far, this past summer they added Prust, Moen and White are regulars on the line up now. They added toughness and have gone on record they won't be the same soft team again. Buffalo added Scott, Ott and have Mcmormick, Foligino and Kaleta.

Leaf fans are delusional into thinking we don't need Orr and Brown in the lineup. Other teams would feast on us, we saw this happen last year, and frankly we don't want a repeat. Plus Orr's skating has improved and skills have improved to. He isn't the plug that can skate and do anything else anymore, like most fans in here assert to. Most people who do not want Orr in the lineup, have not PLAYED ANY HIGH LEVEL COMPETITIVE SPORTS and do not realize how big intimidation and having Brownie and Orr on the bench helps our team moral.

 

[masyo88*]

People that think we don't need Brown or Orr have never played a high level of anything in their lives.

 

[Sundinftw]

Cause we play in the toughest division in hockey with each team stacked with fighters, most of the other teams in the conference toughened up to, we got physically dominated and were the softest team in the NHL last year, and some fans don't want one of the toughest men In hockey watching over our players... makes perfect sense right?

Some of our fans are to dense to realize that soft, small, smurf hockey takes you so far, but at the end of the day if you don't have the toughness and grit you are not going anywhere. Look at Vancouver they traded Hodgson for Kassian, kept Weisse and have Volappati on the fourth line. They needed to get tougher and they did. Montreal realized that soft hockey takes you so far, this past summer they added Prust, Moen and White are regulars on the line up now. They added toughness and have gone on record they won't be the same soft team again. Buffalo added Scott, Ott and have Mcmormick, Foligino and Kaleta.

Leaf fans are delusional into thinking we don't need Orr and Brown in the lineup. Other teams would feast on us, we saw this happen last year, and frankly we don't want a repeat. Plus Orr's skating has improved and skills have improved to. He isn't the plug that can skate and do anything else anymore, like most fans in here assert to. Most people who do not want Orr in the lineup, have not PLAYED ANY HIGH LEVEL COMPETITIVE SPORTS and do not realize how big intimidation and having Brownie and Orr on the bench helps our team moral.

The central division is much more competitive than the northeast.

 

[masyo88*]

The central division is much more competitive than the northeast.

I don't know man look at some of the names

Lucic
Thorton
Cambell
Mquaid
Chara
Scott
Foligino
Kaleta
Mcmormick
Prust
Moen
White
Brown
Orr
Fraser
Neil
Smith
Greening

I'd be hard pressed to find a division better then that

 

[JimLaheyprobert]

Leafs 4th line should be the last of our concerns. To be honast they are the only ones doing their jobs. Leaf fans should be disappointed on how our captin is like a minus 7

 

[Snow Dog]

Leafs 4th line should be the last of our concerns. To be honast they are the only ones doing their jobs. Leaf fans should be disappointed on how our captin is like a minus 7

As far as I am concerned the fourth line should be getting more minutes.Even though they have played limited minutes,no goal has been scored when they are on the ice.


On Saturday when the Rangers first line was running around in the Leaf's zone at will,Orr or Brown should have been on the ice to make their life a bit more difficult.Orr giving Nash a shot or two during board play probably wouldn't even get called.Maybe Brown in front of the net giving the Rangers a "nudge"to keep them honest.

These two guys play the fourth line but don't nessessarily have to always be out together,throw one on the second or third line for a couple of shifts to keep the opposition guessing as to when to expect the rough stuff.

 

[leafspring*]

Not sure if this belongs in another thread but I think having Orr and Brown on this team is redundant.

Carlyle likes having a tough guy but only played them 3 mins each last night.

Look at the better teams in the NHL they either don't have a tough guy on their team or if so they have only 1 guy.

Listen I know people here love Brown cause of his hustle and willingness to fight. Toronto is a sucker for those type of guys they praises the tough guys more than skill guys....just look at Domi, Motor City Smith, Tiger Williams they all get cult like status in Toronto.

To me Brown is useless on this team. He has no offensive game and now that he no longer kills penalties he is worthless to the Leafs....just a black hole on the ice that cannot create any offensive zone havoc.

You look at the Bruins 4th line which is a model of the NHL. Thornton is their tough guy but both Paille and Campbell can play a tough game and even chip in offensively and work the cycle to wear down teams.

Our 4th line is non existent and in this short season could be useful.

Komorov McClement and Orr would be good on the 4th line and it would allow Nonis to bring someone in to play with Kadri on the 3rd line with a bigger body to compete against the Rangers, Bruins and the other bigger bodies teams in the East.

Do we really need 2 tough guys on this team?

Read this for some studies done on fighting/momentum etc. More fights against the rags when they were running up the shots would have countered the momentum apparently lol. hey its a study.http://powerscouthockey.com/node/512

 

[Leaf Army]

Skill wins hockey games, not plugs.

Not true.

This is why I love hockey. There's no one thing that wins hockey games. It takes a little bit of everything. You need 20 guys all playing different roles.

I find it hard to believe people have not noticed the difference in having Orr and Brown in the lineup. We're not getting run anymore. Guys aren't playing scared. Even Bozak's played with a bigger edge to his game.

Also notice that once Brown/Orr scrap at the beginning of the game, everything calms down after that. Very little cheapshots or chippy play so far this season.

I love having them in the lineup.

 

[leafspring*]

Not true.

This is why I love hockey. There's no one thing that wins hockey games. It takes a little bit of everything. You need 20 guys all playing different roles.

I find it hard to believe people have not noticed the difference in having Orr and Brown in the lineup. We're not getting run anymore. Guys aren't playing scared. Even Bozak's played with a bigger edge to his game.

Also notice that once Brown/Orr scrap at the beginning of the game, everything calms down after that. Very little cheapshots or chippy play so far this season.

I love having them in the lineup.

Me to.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

We are Leafs Nation!!

 

[4evaBlue]

Here's my beef with this whole intimidation theory. Why would a player like Marchand be intimidated of Orr? What is Orr going to do? Beat up Lucic (assuming Lucic complies)? Is he dumb enough to go after Marchand, and cost his team 4+ mins in penalties while Marchand turtles? Heck, if I was Marchand, I'd love to play against Orr, not only does he not have an NHL skillset, but he'd be trolled all game long, hoping for some dumb penalties.

Throw the instigator penalty out the window, and it's a whole different ballgame, though.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

What a cement head penalty by Brown playing the puck with his hand Sabres score right off the power play to tie the game 1-1.

Maybe if Brown shaved that bushy dumbass looking facial hair off his face he could see the puck when it's in his skates.

 

[Inconceivable]

What a cement head penalty by Brown playing the puck with his hand Sabres score right off the power play to tie the game 1-1.

Maybe if Brown shaved that bushy dumbass looking facial hair off his face he could see the puck when it's in his skates.

1. He is a winger and a lot of players have had a hard time adjusting to the new rule
2. With the hit on kaleta he showed why he is useful
3. You have problems

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Mike Brown is a terrible hockey player. Should be in the ECHL

 

[CBinTokyo]

Last game vs Buffalo, Kaleta was roughing up Kessel after he had accidental contact with Miller. I don't think it is a coincidence that he was targeted for a big hit by Brown in the game today. You mess with our stars, and you get messed with.