Organizational Ineptitude - it ain't just Chiarelli

[MikeGrier99]

Really there's no one in the organization that deserves to be defended at this point. Since katz has taken over hes been a terrible owner, we had terrible presidents, terrible gms, terrible scouting, average to terrible coaching. They need a scorched fire organization rebuild and try to build a professional front office like Tampa Bay. If it doesn't happen in a few months we will for sure end up losing McDavid.

We are always behind the times, always bargaining from weakness, always overpaying and under performing. The oilers need to strive to be the most competitive organization in the league and not some country club where if you were a grinder in the 80s it guarantees a lifelong job in hockey ops despite being the worst team in the league under your guidance. Seriously who keeps around failed gms and assistant gms? It's absurd, we suck for some twelve years and somehow the same faces are still around. It's absolutely shameful.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Or this team could just hire a good GM like every other successful team in the league does and not grovel at conspiracy theories.

If this guy is so smart, go ahead Chia. Go make a smart deal. Go do something. Anything. Get a trade win for the team. Is Kevin Lowe or Mac T stopping you? Are they forcing you at gunpoint to make dumb trades? Someone forced poor Peter to sign Lucic for 7 years?

The GM is the main person that builds the team for every franchise. "Consulting" with others doesn't absolve him of the responsibility of making the final call.

Who said he was smart? Read the original post.

I agree, the buck stops with him but your a blind man if you think the morons do not wield incredible influence in the decision making processes here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just because theres so much fiction in this thread but the old boys club well preceded Katz. MacT, Lowe had already been with the org for several seasons before Katz, They were already well inured in the org. The org had already established a tradition of hangers on as well, and before Katz. The coaching and managing incompetence demonstrated also preceded Katz. Really the rot in this org started sometime in the early 90's and has been around since. What destroyed this org is the pretty classic "Nothing corrupts like success" dynamic. With the original star players being impacted/corrupted as far back as the 80's.

Theres plenty of reasons to dislike Katz but establishing the OBC is not one of them. Katz inherited much of that. The org was also milking the chronic OBC visits and events well before Katz including the Heritage Classic.

Now if a person wants to blame Katz for continunance of an OBC that is a different thing. But its honest to clarify the timeline of when things occurred which anybody can go back to.

 

[PBandJ]

Fantastic OP.

Chia is an issue, but not the only one. Every person in power is incompetent.

I won't be the least bit surprised if this season is McDavid's breaking point. Hell, the NHL can't be impressed whatsoever right now.

 

[Soundwave]

Who said he was smart? Read the original post.

I agree, the buck stops with him but your a blind man if you think the morons do not wield incredible influence in the decision making processes here.

Why's that? Because you say so?

I think Chiarelli had 100% the final call on every move he's made here and no one put a gun to his head to do any of the poor moves he made.

Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean dick all. I'm pretty sure in Toronto's front office other people suggested 500 different scenarios with Nylander and some of them were stupid.

The job of the GM is to be the smartest person in the room and make the right call. That's not an "optional thing" which you from the sounds of it think it is.

 

[TB12]

Why's that? Because you say so?

I think Chiarelli had 100% the final call on every move he's made here and no one put a gun to his head to do any of the poor moves he made.

Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean dick all. I'm pretty sure in Toronto's front office other people suggested 500 different scenarios with Nylander and some of them were stupid.

The job of the GM is to be the smartest person in the room and make the right call. That's not an "optional thing" which you from the sounds of it think it is.

Or, alternatively, recognize that you’re not the smartest man in the room and hire people that actually are extremely smart and extremely qualified.

Sadly, Oilers management has done neither of these.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Why's that? Because you say so?

I think Chiarelli had 100% the final call on every move he's made here and no one put a gun to his head to do any of the poor moves he made.

Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean dick all. I'm pretty sure in Toronto's front office other people suggested 500 different scenarios with Nylander and some of them were stupid.

The job of the GM is to be the smartest person in the room and make the right call. That's not an "optional thing" which you from the sounds of it think it is.

GMs make decisions on information and discussion. They make the final call. Someone has to provide them with information and discussion. Bad information and bad discussion can lead to bad decisions. This isn't a corner lemonade stand he is running, nor a 7-11.

You will see when Chiarelli is fired and nobody else is, and we hire the next "brightest guy in the room". Nothing will change because the best predictor of future behaviour and results are past behaviours and results.

I posted 15 years of bad results led by the very people who are in positions of influence and power, who will more than likely remain at the helm in positions their owner buddy created just for them to still have a seat at the table.

 

[Stoneman89]

Or this team could just hire a good GM like every other successful team in the league does and not grovel at conspiracy theories.

If this guy is so smart, go ahead Chia. Go make a smart deal. Go do something. Anything. Get a trade win for the team. Is Kevin Lowe or Mac T stopping you? Are they forcing you at gunpoint to make dumb trades? Someone forced poor Peter to sign Lucic for 7 years?

The GM is the main person that builds the team for every franchise. "Consulting" with others doesn't absolve him of the responsibility of making the final call.

Are you nuts? I don't want Chia's finger near any type of trade button involving anything more than a 7th rounder.

 

[MikeGrier99]

Now if a person wants to blame Katz for continunance of an OBC that is a different thing.

Thats all thats relevant, if someone wishes to reconstruct a time line of the obc by all means. Katz was there at the beginning in the 80s but he didn't put Lowe into power. But that's ancient history, he let the obc thrive more then ever since he bought the team, with the worst results ever. If I were to place the blame on one persons shoulders it's surely Katz. He has seen multiple cycles of old boys failure and still hasn't corrected it.

 

[Senor Catface]

When can we start blaming people that go to the games, giving Katz no reason to change the way he operates?

 

[MoontoScott]

Really there's no one in the organization that deserves to be defended at this point. Since katz has taken over hes been a terrible owner, we had terrible presidents, terrible gms, terrible scouting, average to terrible coaching. They need a scorched fire organization rebuild and try to build a professional front office like Tampa Bay. If it doesn't happen in a few months we will for sure end up losing McDavid.

We are always behind the times, always bargaining from weakness, always overpaying and under performing. The oilers need to strive to be the most competitive organization in the league and not some country club where if you were a grinder in the 80s it guarantees a lifelong job in hockey ops despite being the worst team in the league under your guidance. Seriously who keeps around failed gms and assistant gms? It's absurd, we suck for some twelve years and somehow the same faces are still around. It's absolutely shameful.

Very true but how do you affect change in an organization ultimately run by a guy who has serious issues of his own? We don't know if these stories are true but if they are then what faith can you have in him to clean house?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

When can we start blaming people that go to the games, giving Katz no reason to change the way he operates?

Sorry but that is unfair to blame the hard working people of this town who have been loyal to the club and just want to see a reasonable facsimile of a competitive hockey team. Playoff revenue is the result of a competitive team. No playoff revenue is the driving force here to force Katz to change his hand.

But it will be the expeditious and convenient fix. Blame it all on Chiarelli. Put in place another OBC yes man, or his brother. Hire more OBC and more brothers of OBC. Create more phony VP and Director positions for them. Continue to fail for another decade.

 

[Aerrol]

I'm just tired at this point. Not really furious. The injuries derailing the team's chances at a wildcard spot aren't really all that surprising to me - I'm a little surprised at the vitriol the latest loss has produced (only a little, it is HF Oil after all lol). We all knew this team does not have the depth to survive injuries to key players.

Yes, the organization rots from Katz down. Yes, Chiarelli should be fired yesterday. Yes, we still can't draft or develop unless some of K Gretzky's picks start to actually pan out and Pulju has a career revival in 2019. None of that has changed since the offseason, and Hitch at least breathed some life into the team until injuries derailed us again.

I'm not going to watch all that often until people start coming back from injury and I can't totally disconnect from this failure of a franchise until McDavid is gone, one way or another. So I guess hooray for pointing out something that most posters here agree with. If you're really frustrated, cancel your season tickets. Convince other season ticket holders to cancel too. Only way to effectively make a statement, right?

 

[Senor Catface]

Sorry but that is unfair to blame the hard working people of this town who have been loyal to the club and just want to see a reasonable facsimile of a competitive hockey team. Playoff revenue is the result of a competitive team. No playoff revenue is the driving force here to force Katz to change his hand.

But it will be the expeditious and convenient fix. Blame it all on Chiarelli. Put in place another OBC yes man, or his brother. Hire more OBC and more brothers of OBC. Create more phony VP and Director positions for them. Continue to fail for another decade.

Oh those poor hard working people who pay hundreds of dollar for an entertainment product lol

It's only hockey, not a social right.

It's clearly not the fans fault for the product, but the only way a money grabber like Katz will pay attention will be if people stop handing over their money.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I'm just tired at this point. Not really furious. The injuries derailing the team's chances at a wildcard spot aren't really all that surprising to me - I'm a little surprised at the vitriol the latest loss has produced (only a little, it is HF Oil after all lol). We all knew this team does not have the depth to survive injuries to key players.

Yes, the organization rots from Katz down. Yes, Chiarelli should be fired yesterday. Yes, we still can't draft or develop unless some of K Gretzky's picks start to actually pan out and Pulju has a career revival in 2019. None of that has changed since the offseason, and Hitch at least breathed some life into the team until injuries derailed us again.

I'm not going to watch all that often until people start coming back from injury and I can't totally disconnect from this failure of a franchise until McDavid is gone, one way or another. So I guess hooray for pointing out something that most posters here agree with. If you're really frustrated, cancel your season tickets. Convince other season ticket holders to cancel too. Only way to effectively make a statement, right?

I agree, I am tired of it all. I figured after all the digital ink that has been spilt on Chiarelli I wanted to vent my frustrations that this started with the same boobs who ruined this team in the first place and were given pretend new directorships and VP positions who will in all likelihood remain.

It looks more and more like Chiarelli wont survive. I hope and pray about 7-10 others in this organization do not survive either.

If they do survive, I probably will wind up cancelling eventually. Right now I am hoping and praying a guy who built a pharm superpower has the chops to do what needs to be done and damn the torpedoes or his OBC buddies.

 

[Drivesaitl]

When can we start blaming people that go to the games, giving Katz no reason to change the way he operates?

Could be worded a bit differently but to cite an example Harold Ballard was never much interested in improving the on ice product as long as people were paying handsome prices for seats, suites, loges and markups on food, booze, and concessions.

Businesses tend not to change too much as long as they have unfettered patronage.

This org, being located in Edmonton, in Western Canada, and selling hockey is going to be shooting trout in a pond. Until the pond dries out..

In anycase Katz is not impacted or hurting too much. Anything he has lost in owning the Oilers is more than recouped with corollary Arena district enterprise. For instance the sale of "Edmonton Tower" to Alberta Crown Corp, AIMCO. Perhaps interesting in how quick his turnaround was on that sale and profit.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Oh those poor hard working people who pay hundreds of dollar for an entertainment product lol

It's only hockey, not a social right.

It's clearly not the fans fault for the product, but the only way a money grabber like Katz will pay attention will be if people stop handing over their money.

Who said anything about a social right? People will spend their money how they choose and it is not up to anyone to tell them how.

Money is not handed over when playoffs are missed. Tens of millions of those dollars. That gets his attention. No need to cancel to "send a message" unless your tired of watching garbage and I am tired of watching garbage.

 

[PBandJ]

I agree, I am tired of it all. I figured after all the digital ink that has been spilt on Chiarelli I wanted to vent my frustrations that this started with the same boobs who ruined this team in the first place and were given pretend new directorships and VP positions who will in all likelihood remain.

It looks more and more like Chiarelli wont survive. I hope and pray about 7-10 others in this organization do not survive either.

If they do survive, I probably will wind up cancelling eventually. Right now I am hoping and praying a guy who built a pharm superpower has the chops to do what needs to be done and damn the torpedoes or his OBC buddies.

Don't worry, the next GM will fail and Soundwave will spend pages declaring that it ain't the orgs fault, the GM just sucks and he's sure hiring another will fix it.

 

[Soundwave]

Don't worry, the next GM will fail and Soundwave will spend pages declaring that it ain't the orgs fault, the GM just sucks and he's sure hiring another will fix it.

No, I'll go and follow McDavid on whatever next team he's on next in that case, cheering for him to win a Cup and watch more NBA basketball.

The Oilers won't be getting my time or attention in that case, because if they get the next hire wrong, they are done as a franchise as far as I see it. They will lose McDavid and I won't give one shit about whatever happens to them thereafter.

That's my limit to the amount of bull shit I will take.

 

[48g90a138pts]

Aside from a fluke run in 06 this team has been a cluster **** since the early nineties. Seems ever since sather left we can’t get any real traction going as a respectable franchise. The whole Pronger fiasco has left us reeling and quite frankly cursed.

The draft years of '79-81 and '83 set up the team to be competitive for a good long time, along with having Gretzky. The slow death by a 1000 cuts started with the exit of Coffey, then the trade of Wayne and so on after.

Most assets that the Oilers received for all their 80's superstars were gone in only a few seasons later. The talent kept dwindling and dwindling. Then the Oilers caught a few breaks in the draft but it just wasn't enough to turn the franchise around. And again the trades made weren't good enough quality and those players were gone after 1-3 yrs. Even the three 1st rnd picks from LA in the Gretzky trade turned into nothing. Truly pathetic.

The early days we were fortunate in 4 out of 5 drafts, but after that it was a decade of trash. This is where the team truly went off the cliff once the 90's came around. There just wasn't any talent coming in from the draft to plug the holes of star players that eventually left.

Pocklington should have sold Gainers instead of Wayne. Then spent that money on scouting.

 

[guymez]

I posted this in another thread but this seems like a better place for it.

@5 Mins 4 Ftg While I agree with the premise that the problems go much deeper than Chiarelli I am not as hopeful that anything is going to change.

As you detailed it all starts with Katz and who he has decided to surround himself with....and how much influence this OBC...Red Wine Summit...pick your descriptor....has on the hockey operations.

From a hockey Ops perspective Katz has been a colossal failure,,,,an absolute embarrassment.
So I ask...why do we think that is going to change anytime soon?
I mean the people around him have massive egos...are close friends and know a thing or 2 about winning.
They are self delusional and be that as it may Katz has entrusted them with the fortunes of this team.

Are we really expecting this unenlightened self absorbed group to suddenly put aside their egos and admit that they dont have a f***ing clue what they are doing and relinquish control?
Its not going to happen anytime soon if at all IMO.

To me the best we can hope for is that Katz and the OBC get lucky over and over again just like they did in landing Connor because thats the only scenario thats going to see this organization succeed long term.

My only true hope (and its a faint one) is that Hitch can help Katz see the truth.
Without that this team is likely f***ed for a long time because once you f*** up a rebuild with Connor what hope is there?

 

[Soundwave]

If you want to do the whole "boo hoo, woe is us, we can't ever hire anyone good because it's impossible, so lets just let Chia keep gutting the team thing and blame the OBC" ...

That's fine. That kind of passive aggressive defeatist attitude is fine.

But you don't get to have that attitude and then in the same breath expect McDavid to stay here. Keep him out of it. If that's how it is here, then fine, trade him outta here.

Connor doesn't deserve that and he's not a loser. Give him a decent GM or stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[Missing smitty]

Bruins Fans in 2015:

Chiarelli is going to trade away your talented forwards for mediocre returns and fill the roster up with grinder role players while capping your team out. Good luck Oiler fans.

Oiler Fans in 2018:

How in the world did we trade away so much talent and why do we have so many crap grinder players and where did all our cap room go? Lets blame Kevin Lowe!

lol, if you had listened 3 1/2 years go to what Bruins fans told you ...

No is blaming Kevin Lowe. People blame Chiarelli, they just know that he's not the only problem. You're the only one apologizing for Mr "I know a thing or 2 about winning". Just stop before you make yourself look as silly as you do in most threads.

 

[Missing smitty]

If you want to do the whole "boo hoo, woe is us, we can't ever hire anyone good because it's impossible, so lets just let Chia keep gutting the team thing and blame the OBC" ...

That's fine. That kind of passive aggressive defeatist attitude is fine.

But you don't get to have that attitude and then in the same breath expect McDavid to stay here. Keep him out of it. If that's how it is here, then fine, trade him outta here.

Connor doesn't deserve that and he's not a loser. Give him a decent GM or stop wasting everyone's time.

It doesn't matter who the GM is while this "management team" is here as well. You'll see nothing will change when they fire Chiarelli, but I'm sure you'll just start piling on the next guy.

 

[Morpheus]

Sorry no link but there have been rumblings of Bobby Nicks being in the running for an I.O.C job.
I hope he gets it, and soon!