Organizational Ineptitude - it ain't just Chiarelli

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

My biggest issue with Chiarelli honestly isnt the the Hall deal or the big contracts.

It is the clearly uninformed decisions that he makes, specifically at the draft.

2015 Reinhart deal we all knew was absolutely terrible the second we heard it. He clearly had Bob Green in his ear on that one.

2016 they clearly did no homework on Puljujarvi . They didnt even have a jersey for him . That isn't doing a service to the team or the player by not understanding what his needs and weaknesses are. They seemed well versed in Sergachev and Tkachuk and would be a much better team if they went with what they knew.

Shanahan is doing so well in Toronto because every decision is patient, informed and precise. He knows what he wants and he makes sure he knows everything about what he wants and what he's giving up.

Yes there has been some draft luck but we have no right to point that out.

I know it would never happen but I'd give almost anything to have Steve Yzerman come here. No nonsense guy who makes patient and informed decisions .

The key word in above - INFORMED. Where does Shanahan or Yzerman get their information from? Where does Chiarelli get his information from and as per the Oilers Website, CONSULTS with W Gretzky, C MacTavish, K Lowe, and a host of others.

We have a dysfunctional and proven failure of a management team. If Shanahan or Yzerman had to work under these conditions with this failed group (they wouldn't in the first place) they would make mistakes as well. And Chia has made bad ones that he must own full stop.

For those that think we hire the next smartest guy in the room and we keep the management team intact, or worse just bump Chia to POHO, we will be sitting in the same place 4 years from now wondering what went wrong once again.

The best predictor of the future is the past. Fact.

 

[BlackDogg]

 

[MaxR11]

My biggest issue with Chiarelli honestly isnt the the Hall deal or the big contracts.

It is the clearly uninformed decisions that he makes, specifically at the draft.

2015 Reinhart deal we all knew was absolutely terrible the second we heard it. He clearly had Bob Green in his ear on that one.

2016 they clearly did no homework on Puljujarvi . They didnt even have a jersey for him . That isn't doing a service to the team or the player by not understanding what his needs and weaknesses are. They seemed well versed in Sergachev and Tkachuk and would be a much better team if they went with what they knew.

Shanahan is doing so well in Toronto because every decision is patient, informed and precise. He knows what he wants and he makes sure he knows everything about what he wants and what he's giving up.

Yes there has been some draft luck but we have no right to point that out.

I know it would never happen but I'd give almost anything to have Steve Yzerman come here. No nonsense guy who makes patient and informed decisions .

pooly was such a bad pick. didn't like it the second they made that pick. i was actually excited before the pick because i heard they were really leaning towards tkachuk and he seemed like an ingredient this team needed. i know it's still "early" but everything about pooly screamed out bust to me. was never enamoured with his edge work and slow feet. poor agility and acceleration. hard to rely on just top speed nowadays. especially when you have slow puck handles like pooly has. he has that slow deliberate sweeping style of puck handling. doesn't work in today's nhl. gotta have those quick agile touches of the puck. he's looking more and more like a third line checking forward at best.... who may or may not contribute a bit offensively.

i think that pick exemplifies the oilers problem with player scouting and evaluation. they look too much at tangibles and not enough with intangibles. they look at pooly and say, size... check, speed.... check.... he was more developed at his age compared to others at his age at the time and fooled the oilers. lazy and inept scouting. not much critical thinking involved. i hope i'm wrong but pooly just looks goofy and a real suspect not a prospect out there.

i was also extremely upset with the reinhart deal.... i remember it really took the luster off drafting mcdavid like an hour ago. i lost some respect for chia right then and also made me question who's really in charge here because it screamed out to me like an obc/bob greene move. those two decisions (pooly and reinhart) and signing looch for such a long term deal were definitely terrible moves. i din't hate having looch signed at the time but only for something like 3 years. was really disappointed it was a 7 year deal! again that took a lot of luster of the hall trade for me that year.

being too self satisfied in the summer of 2017 after the playoff run and not upgrading the forward position also irked me. it made me lose confidence in the management and i felt like maybe they were handcuffing themselves because there were too many voices in the management core and were paralyzed with no clear direction. there needs to be a complete change in the management. the red wine club needs to be disbanded. too fat and lazy, inept and living off their past glories.

 

[Tyrolean]

There should be a Chai watch on his time remaining in this organization. Bad judgment and illogical thinking. He didn't have to lose Aberg and Zykov. WIdeman was next to useless as is Garrision His small moves are backfiring . Even Koskinen is trending down. Chaisson is the only good move. Now he gives up a 3rd rounder for Petrovic? Fire him before he does more damage out of desperation!!

 

[Soundwave]

30 NHL Teams
GM
Managerial Staff - 5-8
Scouts - 12-20
Process - GM has direction from owner to set course for team, uses staff and data points to disseminate information and make short and long term decisions about his hockey club, buck stops with him

Oilers
GM
Managerial and Senior Staff of proven failures of historic proportions, OBC Members over at OEG who "consult in hockey operations" - 12 (who hold official titles and the ones we know about)
Scouts - 12 who include the GMs brother and an OBC brother - only 2 of whom are pro scouts who are expected to know about every player in the NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL, and the various European and minor pro leagues, in other words about 2500 pro hockey players.
Process - Same as above only has more people with more clout feeding him bad information, makes decisions based on the collective and consultative process as described on the Oilers Org Chart Website, buck stops with him eventually.

Soundwave
GM
Internet
Staff of 2 Staff of 2000, doesn't matter so long as the GM thinks smarter, works harder and has better wifi than the guy before him.

Peter has autonomy to hire whoever he wants in scouting positions so spare me the boo hoo excuse making that he doesn't have scouts.

He hires his brother, brought in Keith Gretzky, and fired his scouts.

If he wants more scouts and go hire them, hes being paid 3 million a season I seriously doubt Katz is cheaping out at a couple of scouts at 100k salary a year. You're the one making excuses.

 

[Missing smitty]

Peter has autonomy to hire whoever he wants in scouting positions so spare me the boo hoo excuse making that he doesn't have scouts.

He hires his brother, brought in Keith Gretzky, and fired his scouts.

If he wants more scouts and go hire them, hes being paid 3 million a season I seriously doubt Katz is cheaping out at a couple of scouts at 100k salary a year. You're the one making excuses.

Weren't you making boo hoo excuses for the former management team, while they showed nothing but incompetence? Stop saying everything is Chiarelli's fault, he's problem number one, but there are more problems than just him.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Peter has autonomy to hire whoever he wants in scouting positions so spare me the boo hoo excuse making that he doesn't have scouts.

He hires his brother, brought in Keith Gretzky, and fired his scouts.

If he wants more scouts and go hire them, hes being paid 3 million a season I seriously doubt Katz is cheaping out at a couple of scouts at 100k salary a year. You're the one making excuses.

Again missing the point on how GMs get then use information and in particular with this dysfunctional consultative OBC process the Oilers have.

Good day to you sir. We will agree that Chia must be fired but disagree that an actual functional staff is required to be successful in the long run. It’s been an exhausting conversation.

 

[Soundwave]

Weren't you making boo hoo excuses for the former management team, while they showed nothing but incompetence? Stop saying everything is Chiarelli's fault, he's problem number one, but there are more problems than just him.

This team as it is today is 90% his fault.

This is the team he wanted to build don't freaking kid yourself, big, heavy, slow. Emphasis on "character" and hitting over skill. He wasn't forced into anything.

Bruins fans called it in 2015 he would trade away players like Hall and Eberle and lose those trades so nothing surprising about that.

 

[Missing smitty]

This team as it is today is 90% his fault.

This is the team he wanted to build don't freaking kid yourself, big, heavy, slow. Emphasis on character and hitting over skill.

Bruins fans called it in 2015 he would trade away players like Hall and Eberle and lose those trades so nothing surprising about that.

NO ONE HAS SAID HE IS ANY GOOD. Get that through your concrete skull. He sucks. He's a garbage GM.

Stop kidding yourself that he's the reason for all the teams failings. They've had nothing in the prospect pool for years, which means you need to get UFAs, which almost never works out. The problems with this team go deeper than Chiarelli. If he's solely responsible (which he is 100% for any of his moves), then whoever decided on hiring him needs to go as well.

 

[Soundwave]

NO ONE HAS SAID HE IS ANY GOOD. Get that through your concrete skull. He sucks. He's a garbage GM.

Stop kidding yourself that he's the reason for all the teams failings. They've had nothing in the prospect pool for years, which means you need to get UFAs, which almost never works out. The problems with this team go deeper than Chiarelli. If he's solely responsible (which he is 100% for any of his moves), then whoever decided on hiring him needs to go as well.

I'm saying its 90% his fault. And he wasn't forced at gun point to do anything.

This is the team he wanted, he thought Lucic would score at least 50 points a year and Puljujarvi would be the same and Larsson would get better.

But the team is very much the style of team he wants.

So if the implication is he was some how coerced or forced into this, sorry not buying that kool aid.

Most everything done here is 100% what he was doing in Boston already in his last few years there.

We were naive to think he had learned his lesson from the Seguin trade, he didn't learn a damn thing.

 

[MaxR11]

This team as it is today is 90% his fault.

This is the team he wanted to build don't freaking kid yourself, big, heavy, slow. Emphasis on "character" and hitting over skill. He wasn't forced into anything.

Bruins fans called it in 2015 he would trade away players like Hall and Eberle and lose those trades so nothing surprising about that.

one of this team's biggest problems (as hitch relayed in an interview yesterday) is this team sags too easily and stops playing for each other. poor mental fortitude and culture. the lingering "poor me/feeling sorry for yourself" attitude has been here and started by the likes of hall and ebs.

yes they definitely need more skill but they can still do much better and have shown to play much better with the current roster when they have their heads screwed on right. the last thing you need are guys like hall and ebs back here who will sag too easily when things go wrong. attitude goes a long way. they've been better about their attitude since hall was traded but still not good enough.

 

[MaxR11]

I'm saying its 90% his fault. And he wasn't forced at gun point to do anything.

This is the team he wanted, he thought Lucic would score at least 50 points a year and Puljujarvi would be the same and Larsson would get better.

But the team is very much the style of team he wants.

So if the implication is he was some how coerced or forced into this, sorry not buying that kool aid.

Most everything done here is 100% what he was doing in Boston already in his last few years there.

We were naive to think he had learned his lesson from the Seguin trade, he didn't learn a damn thing.

has seguin won anything since being traded? has he really made such a big difference for the stars franchise? i mean his numbers look nice but how much has he REALLY made a difference in terms of winning and putting the stars over the top. heck, the CEO basically called him f****** horse****. maybe now you'll start understanding it's NOT all about points. they've had multiple conversations with seguin this year before they finally had enough.

 

[Soundwave]

has seguin won anything since being traded? has he really made such a big difference for the stars franchise? i mean his numbers look nice but how much has he REALLY made a difference in terms of winning and putting the stars over the top. heck, the CEO basically called him f****** horse****. maybe now you'll start understanding it's NOT all about points. they've had multiple conversations with seguin this year before they finally had enough.

And what have the Oilers won with this style of lineup in 4 years with McDavid?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

NO ONE HAS SAID HE IS ANY GOOD. Get that through your concrete skull. He sucks. He's a garbage GM.

Stop kidding yourself that he's the reason for all the teams failings. They've had nothing in the prospect pool for years, which means you need to get UFAs, which almost never works out. The problems with this team go deeper than Chiarelli. If he's solely responsible (which he is 100% for any of his moves), then whoever decided on hiring him needs to go as well.

It’s impossible. He’s entrenched. Will be loving his reaction when the next GM is not working hard enough or thinking smart enough or doesn’t have a good enough wifi connection and the OBC still retain all their invented positions and a direct connection to Katz ear.

 

[Missing smitty]

has seguin won anything since being traded? has he really made such a big difference for the stars franchise? i mean his numbers look nice but how much has he REALLY made a difference in terms of winning and putting the stars over the top. heck, the CEO basically called him f****** horse****. maybe now you'll start understanding it's NOT all about points. they've had multiple conversations with seguin this year before they finally had enough.

Chiarelli traded Seguin, which means everything is Chiarelli's fault. Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson are excellent hockey executives who just ran into crappy circumstances.

 

[MaxR11]

And what have the Oilers won with this style of lineup in 4 years with McDavid?

noone is defending this lineup.

 

[Soundwave]

Chiarelli traded Seguin, which means everything is Chiarelli's fault. Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson are excellent hockey executives who just ran into crappy circumstances.

No it means his style of management that was very clear in Boston has simply just continued on here.

This is the style of team he likes to build, these are the types of players he likes, he has watched a ton of skill walk out of Boston too, didn't feel Kessel was worth spending the money on, freely traded Wheeler, freely traded Seguin.

To act like this is a coincidence now that this keeps happening to him is ignorance.

He has zero interest in a player like Matt Barzal and the Taylor Halls of the world are expendable, the Milan Lucics are "must haves". We knew what kind of manager we were hiring, it just looked a whole lot better when you have Zdeno Chara anchoring everything.

 

[MaxR11]

Chiarelli traded Seguin, which means everything is Chiarelli's fault. Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson are excellent hockey executives who just ran into crappy circumstances.

the job management done has been poor no doubt... it's pretty obvious. i mean if it's this obvious and IF chia was fully responsible for this.... would not the obc above him already have fired him by now? i think they havn't fired him yet because they know they had a huge hand in the decision making process of what has been happening since they hired chia.

 

[Soundwave]

the job management done has been poor no doubt... it's pretty obvious. i mean if it's this obvious and IF chia was fully responsible for this.... would not the obc above him already have fired him by now? i think they havn't fired him yet because they know they had a huge hand in the decision making process of what has been happening since they hired chia.

We were already told all summer long, "17-18 was just a fluke down year! Just fix the special teams and everything is A-OK!".

This organization cannot handle any form of success without it getting to their head and then all objectivity is lost. 16-17 was so "magical" that we had to give this GM another year just to be sure he sucked, and that sentiment was shoved down a lot of people's throat here by many posters all summer long.

The "pessimistic" posters like me were told "well you're just being overly pessimistic, Lucic will bounce back, Sekera will be healthy, Gulutzan will fix the special teams".

 

[Missing smitty]

No it means his style of management that was very clear in Boston has simply just continued on here.

This is the style of team he likes to build, these are the types of players he likes, he has watched a ton of skill walk out of Boston too, didn't feel Kessel was worth spending the money on, freely traded Wheeler, freely traded Seguin.

To act like this is a coincidence now that this keeps happening to him is ignorance.

He has zero interest in a player like Matt Barzal and the Taylor Halls of the world are expendable, the Milan Lucics are "must haves". We knew what kind of manager we were hiring, it just looked a whole lot better when you have Zdeno Chara anchoring everything.

My God, just shut up. No one has said Chiarelli's any good. He sucks. Everyone agrees that he sucks.

But whoever hired him is just as incompetent as him.

 

[MaxR11]

We were already told all summer long, "17-18 was just a fluke down year! Just fix the special teams and everything is A-OK!".

This organization cannot handle any form of success without it getting to their head and then all objectivity is lost. 16-17 was so "magical" that we had to give this GM another year just to be sure he sucked, and that sentiment was shoved down a lot of people's throat here by many posters all summer long.

The "pessimistic" posters like me were told "well you're just being overly pessimistic, Lucic will bounce back, Sekera will be healthy, Gulutzan will fix the special teams".

let's say chia was the main problem... what does that say about the obc, nicks, katz above him that aren't firing him then? they must be just as incompetent if not more so.

 

[Soundwave]

My God, just shut up. No one has said Chiarelli's any good. He sucks. Everyone agrees that he sucks.

But whoever hired him is just as incompetent as him.

Well I'm not debating "he sucks" I think I won that debate about 12 months ago and now whoever is dumb enough to argue otherwise is just making themselves look stupid.

I'm saying this roster is 90% his fault. It's the roster he wanted, don't give me that kool-aid that this is like some 40-20-20 split or some nonsense. He wanted Lucic, he wanted Larsson, there was no way he was taking Barzal. That's not something he was coerced into.

 

[Missing smitty]

Well I'm not debating "he sucks" I think I won that debate about 12 months ago and now whoever is dumb enough to argue otherwise is just making themselves look stupid.

I'm saying this roster is 90% his fault. It's the roster he wanted, don't give me that kool-aid that this is like some 40-20-20 split or some nonsense.

Everyone agrees that the roster is his doing. You're the only one saying he's the only problem with this organization.

 

[Soundwave]

Everyone agrees that the roster is his doing. You're the only one saying he's the only problem with this organization.

90% is an awful large part of any problem.

 

[MaxR11]

Well I'm not debating "he sucks" I think I won that debate about 12 months ago and now whoever is dumb enough to argue otherwise is just making themselves look stupid.

I'm saying this roster is 90% his fault. It's the roster he wanted, don't give me that kool-aid that this is like some 40-20-20 split or some nonsense. He wanted Lucic, he wanted Larsson, there was no way he was taking Barzal. That's not something he was coerced into.

lol, you didn't "win" anything. noone said chia was any good. i and many many others had questioned his competence or whether he actually had full control pretty much right away after the reinhart deal.