Confirmed with Link: O'Reilly/McGinn Traded To Buffalo For Zadorov/Grigorenko/Compher/31st Overall

[chet1926]

Can't compare contracts signed under the previous CBA to the current one. Completely different.

BS. I'm sorry this is just BS. ROR is not a top 20 paid player in the game period. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if he signed his contract today or if he signed it in 2009. There is no way you can tell me that ROR is a top 20 paid player. Buffalo overpaid by a significant sum and it is going to come back to bite them in the ass. Quite glad the Avs let this joker and nut job father out of this organization. So glad we don't have to deal with this garbage anymore.

 

[dahrougem2]

BS. I'm sorry this is just BS. ROR is not a top 20 paid player in the game period. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if he signed his contract today or if he signed it in 2009. There is no way you can tell me that ROR is a top 20 paid player. Buffalo overpaid by a significant sum and it is going to come back to bite them in the ass. Quite glad the Avs let this joker and nut job father out of this organization. So glad we don't have to deal with this garbage anymore.

He's not a top-20 player in the league and shouldn't be paid like one but as the other poster said, you can't compare contracts signed years ago to the contract O'Reilly has signed now.

I'm sure everyone will agree that John Tavares is much better than O'Reilly, and is one of the top-10 players in the league yet he only makes 5.5M per season. Want to know how many players in the league make more than Tavares?

80. He's barely in the top 100 for pay amongst players since there are a bunch tied at 5.5 and a few right below at 5.4 or 5.3. 80 players paid more than Johnny T.

Contracts signed years ago are simply not comparable to contracts signed today, especially if they were in the old CBA.

 

[Hasbro]

And the next 2 generations in the ROR lineage

Or the previous one if his dad Jack Johnsons him.

 

[Freudian]

Or the previous one if his dad Jack Johnsons him.

An external psychology theme park isn't going to build itself.

Welcome to Organizational Performance Land.

 

[keglu]

BS. I'm sorry this is just BS. ROR is not a top 20 paid player in the game period. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if he signed his contract today or if he signed it in 2009. There is no way you can tell me that ROR is a top 20 paid player. Buffalo overpaid by a significant sum and it is going to come back to bite them in the ass. Quite glad the Avs let this joker and nut job father out of this organization. So glad we don't have to deal with this garbage anymore.

He is not Top 20 paid players, period. He is making 6mil(salary cap) this year.
How much do you think EJ and Barrie will make next for contracts btw?

 

[Ceremony]

Those signing bonuses

It was a big topic of conversation, but I never understood why people would get emotional about it. Speculating about what might happen I completely understand; it's letting that speculation become emotionally taxing that I don't get.

The foundation of sport fandom is an emotional connection to a team/organisation of some sort or individuals or individuals belonging to a team/organisation, so emotional responses to difficulties for those are quite understandable.

 

[AdamCalderHero]

Does the Avs trading away O'Reilly have consequences for the other players negotiations. For instance Barrie and Mackinnon might be less likely to take a hard line and be so demanding now that theyve seen the Avs are willing to trade away a key piece if they think they are being unreasonable?

Whereas if they'd given O'Reilly the money they might think they can squeeze and extra 500k-1m per year out of management on their next contract?

 

[AslanRH]

Does the Avs trading away O'Reilly have consequences for the other players negotiations. For instance Barrie and Mackinnon might be less likely to take a hard line and be so demanding now that theyve seen the Avs are willing to trade away a key piece if they think they are being unreasonable?

Whereas if they'd given O'Reilly the money they might think they can squeeze and extra 500k-1m per year out of management on their next contract?

Probably a minimal effect with MacK as he is going to be a special player, but I do think it sends a message to players and agents. Maybe not as much about threatening them not to take the hard line, but that the Avs are committed to a certain balance of salary distribution and will sacrifice losing a player for the overall health of the team.

I really think it came down to
1) ROR having salary demands that didn't fit the structure
2) ROR wanting to leave for a bigger role

In the end, you can't pay top end money to a guy who isn't a top guy on the team. Whether in skill, leadership, or whatever. Compound that with the player not really satisfied in his current role, and you are asking for issues down the line.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

BS. I'm sorry this is just BS. ROR is not a top 20 paid player in the game period. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if he signed his contract today or if he signed it in 2009. There is no way you can tell me that ROR is a top 20 paid player. Buffalo overpaid by a significant sum and it is going to come back to bite them in the ass. Quite glad the Avs let this joker and nut job father out of this organization. So glad we don't have to deal with this garbage anymore.

It isn't BS at all. If every player in the league signed their contract under the new CBA, and he was still top 20, then yes without a doubt BS. he is not a top 20 player there's no disputing that. However you can't compare the contracts like Crosby's which is 12 years, or one of the other old CBA contracts that goes from paid 12 million one year and 500k the next in order to make the cap hit lower, to ROR or any other players contract that signed under the current CBA. It's simply not fair and is a completely flawed argument. The CBA and market has changed, guys like ROR 5 years ago would make 5M, Now? 7M is fair, and as the market continues to change I imagine the 7.5M Won't look so bad in a few seasons.

 

[linusandvarlamov]

I don't find that to be a bold prediction. Soderberg is going to have some quality line mates. Any combo of MacK, Landy, Grigs, Rantanen, Tanguay etc.

The top 4 wingers on Buffalo are Ennis, Kane, McGinn, and Moulson. I would assume they are going to give Eichel every chance to succeed so they'll probably give him Moulson and Ennis. Leaving Kane and McGinn as RORs most likely wingers. And Kane will probably get hurt half way through the year, making Gionta or Foligno to move up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see ROR top out around 50 pts. I could see Soderberg closer to 60 if the Avs play to their capabilities offensively, and figure out how score a goal on the PP occasionally.

O'Reilly is going to fall back down to earth in point production next year. He won't have a man named Landy playing on his leftwing . Neither will he have the 2013 rookie sensation on his right wing.

I'd be very pleased to see Soderberg beat him in points next season !!

 

[niwotsblessing]

Does the Avs trading away O'Reilly have consequences for the other players negotiations. For instance Barrie and Mackinnon might be less likely to take a hard line and be so demanding now that theyve seen the Avs are willing to trade away a key piece if they think they are being unreasonable?

Whereas if they'd given O'Reilly the money they might think they can squeeze and extra 500k-1m per year out of management on their next contract?

Or guys like EJ, Barrie, and MacKinnon will see that the Avs prioritized their contracts and want to keep them long term. Like tea leaves, the situation can be read a few different ways.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Probably a minimal effect with MacK as he is going to be a special player, but I do think it sends a message to players and agents. Maybe not as much about threatening them not to take the hard line, but that the Avs are committed to a certain balance of salary distribution and will sacrifice losing a player for the overall health of the team.

I really think it came down to
1) ROR having salary demands that didn't fit the structure
2) ROR wanting to leave for a bigger role

In the end, you can't pay top end money to a guy who isn't a top guy on the team. Whether in skill, leadership, or whatever. Compound that with the player not really satisfied in his current role, and you are asking for issues down the line.

This is pretty much the best way to sum up the situation.

Those Newport max contracts don't age well either. No matter if they are market value or not.

 

[chet1926]

He's not a top-20 player in the league and shouldn't be paid like one but as the other poster said, you can't compare contracts signed years ago to the contract O'Reilly has signed now.

I'm sure everyone will agree that John Tavares is much better than O'Reilly, and is one of the top-10 players in the league yet he only makes 5.5M per season. Want to know how many players in the league make more than Tavares?

80. He's barely in the top 100 for pay amongst players since there are a bunch tied at 5.5 and a few right below at 5.4 or 5.3. 80 players paid more than Johnny T.

Contracts signed years ago are simply not comparable to contracts signed today, especially if they were in the old CBA.

Bad comparison. If Tavares had an agent with a brain, he would have never signed the contract he did. He would have taken a bridge deal, like Duchene did. And then he would have cashed in after that because he was just getting better every year. If I was Tavares I would have fired my agent by now.

Yeah obviously things have changed with salary cap going up etc. But can you honestly tell me with a straight face that ROR should be occupying approximately 10% of any teams salary cap? I don't think anyone can, that's way too much for that caliber player.

 

[chet1926]

He is not Top 20 paid players, period. He is making 6mil(salary cap) this year.
How much do you think EJ and Barrie will make next for contracts btw?

EJ probably close to 7-7.5M, which is fine for a #1 dman. If he goes to UFA I could see some offering up to 8. Which would be a slight overpayment, but not awful as EJ is a stud.

Barrie is tough to peg. I'd say 5.5-6M is a fair offer. Open market someone would overpay and give him 7M+ and that would be a ROR type overpayment.

UFA is ridiculous, due to teams like Buffalo who drastically overpay players like ROR. It screws with actual value.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Or guys like EJ, Barrie, and MacKinnon will see that the Avs prioritized their contracts and want to keep them long term. Like tea leaves, the situation can be read a few different ways.

From this offseason, all it's really shown is if you are a good player during your ELC, you can essentially determine what you want in $ as if you were UFA. If your team is not willing to give you what you want in salary, you can sign an offer sheet. Or you'll be traded to a team that WILL pay your demands.

ROR, Hamilton and Saad are perfect examples of players who controlled their salary compensation after their ELCs. The scary part, there's nothing the GMs can really do about it. Offer sheet compensation is very low.

If I'm a player with an ELC that just ran out and say, I want 6M. But the market dictates I'm really more of a 4.5M player, all I need to do is threaten to sign an offer sheet or give me 6M. Im either going to get traded to a team willing to pay me that OR some dumb GM will give me the offer sheet OR my team caves. All three of those options need to be exhausted before I finally give in to a 4.5M contract. That is, unless I'm willing to hold out.

Messy situation if your player wants his money.

 

[Ararana]

I'm happy for ROR and I don't care what he makes because now we don't have to pay it. I think I just found my new eastern conference team to root for. Buffalo/Florida has some exciting players to watch.

I was bitter and frustrated with ROR until I saw the return we got for him . Zads is going to be hella awesome and Grigs has high potential. One of the best hockey-trades I've seen in a while, both teams filled needs and walked away happy. Again I'm happy for ROR, but I'm happy to have him shipped out and over with.

I feel bad for Buffalo fans, that main thread is going to go on for a looooong time.

 

[chet1926]

From this offseason, all it's really shown is if you are a good player during your ELC, you can essentially determine what you want in $ as if you were UFA. If your team is not willing to give you what you want in salary, you can sign an offer sheet. Or you'll be traded to a team that WILL pay your demands.

ROR, Hamilton and Saad are perfect examples of players who controlled their salary compensation after their ELCs. The scary part, there's nothing the GMs can really do about it. Offer sheet compensation is very low.

If I'm a player with an ELC that just ran out and say, I want 6M. But the market dictates I'm really more of a 4.5M player, all I need to do is threaten to sign an offer sheet or give me 6M. Im either going to get traded to a team willing to pay me that OR some dumb GM will give me the offer sheet OR my team caves. All three of those options need to be exhausted before I finally give in to a 4.5M contract. That is, unless I'm willing to hold out.

Messy situation if your player wants his money.

Agreed, players and agents have way more power than management. You basically have to hope that your star players aren't all as money hungry as ROR. If they are you're basically screwed.

 

[AslanRH]

yep, I think I've officially checked out of the main thread. Going to force myself not to even look anymore. So much lacking in the understanding of rising costs and how the new CBA affected contracts.

My grandfather was a geologist and I am far from that, but my hourly wage is exponentially higher than his was at the same age. I must really be screwing my company

 

[keglu]

EJ probably close to 7-7.5M, which is fine for a #1 dman. If he goes to UFA I could see some offering up to 8. Which would be a slight overpayment, but not awful as EJ is a stud.

Barrie is tough to peg. I'd say 5.5-6M is a fair offer. Open market someone would overpay and give him 7M+ and that would be a ROR type overpayment.

UFA is ridiculous, due to teams like Buffalo who drastically overpay players like ROR. It screws with actual value.

Since like you said circumstances of being signed do not matter it's quite weird you are ok with EJ making more than any defender not named Subban/Weber/Suter.

 

[RockLobster]

Since like you said circumstances of being signed do not matter it's quite weird you are ok with EJ making more than any defender not named Subban/Weber/Suter.

But that would get in the way of his biased complaining about O'Reilly.

 

[lonelybadger]

Just got back from the land of lakes and no WiFi but saw the signing. Pretty good for O'Reilly pretty hilarious for buffalo. I was wondering why it was taking so long but it makes sense now, not only did ror want 7.5 per he wanted it all guaranteed which is smart. I have a feeling the next CBA will have wording limiting signing bonuses to a certain percentage of the total contract but good for him he got what he wanted, buffalo gets their guy, and the avs get some prospect depth, zadorov and saved money for beauchemin. Worked out well for all involved (except us fans).

Now time to tackle Newport and Tyson Barrie who I think will be more reasonable.

 

[Mules]

But that would get in the way of his biased complaining about O'Reilly.

I wonder what is the problem with this though. With the way he and his lawyers negotiated in the last 3 years, some fans are going to be disappointed and angry.
He forced himself out of the team, don't you at least agree with that?

 

[cgf]

BS. I'm sorry this is just BS. ROR is not a top 20 paid player in the game period. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if he signed his contract today or if he signed it in 2009. There is no way you can tell me that ROR is a top 20 paid player. Buffalo overpaid by a significant sum and it is going to come back to bite them in the ass. Quite glad the Avs let this joker and nut job father out of this organization. So glad we don't have to deal with this garbage anymore.

You are right. ROR is not a top 20 paid player now, even if his cap hit is top 20. Luckily with the ban on cap circumventing contracts for players who actually earn more than ROR, like Hossa and Keith's, this will become clearer to people in the coming years.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's going to take quite a bit for anyone in the 2009-present class to surpass O'Reilly in terms of dollars earned. To me it's a bit too simplistic to say they cap goes up, everyone's contracts get inflated. Not everyone negotiates these bloated Newport deals, even if they are stars. The vets aren't getting big raises on the open market either. These are all fair things when evaluating the deal. It should say something when a contract has to be structured buyout-proof. A good young player locked up long term should be buyout proof in of itself. Maybe Newport is tired of seeing their contracts bought out, that should tell you something.

 

[RockLobster]

I wonder what is the problem with this though. With the way he and his lawyers negotiated in the last 3 years, some fans are going to be disappointed and angry.
He forced himself out of the team, don't you at least agree with that?

I've never said (since the trade happened) that he didn't force himself off the team. The closest I've come to saying that is that it "appears that he didn't want to play for the Avalanche anymore".

And that's it. I do think it sucks, as a fan of the team, that he doesn't want to play for us, but not every player wants to play for us. I personally believe that whatever happened during the original negotiation, was enough to poison the relationship with Ryan and the Avalanche from then on, no matter the fact that new management was brought in. If things were said that got personal, then so be it. And before people can say "well he needs to be more professional than that", I think the same can be said about the idea that he doesn't want to play for us. Those people take it personally because the Avalanche are our favorite team. Basically it's hypocritical to say that he can't hold things personal in a negotiation, but we can because he decided he didn't want to play for our team anymore.

And it gets even more hypocritical when posters say that previous contracts should be looked at, when comparing this one, and then use that as a basis to go off on a tangent, that O'Reilly isn't worth that because he's not as accomplished as the others in his newfound salary neighborhood. Especially when they say that EJ should get 7-7.5M, making his deal worth more than Suter, Karlsson, Doughty (the same at 7M, more at 7.5M), Keith, Seabrook, etc. (For the record, EJ has been one of my favorite Avalanche players, if there is anyone on the team that I feel deserves to be paid whatever it takes to keep them, it's him)

Bottom line. Once it became apparent that the Avalanche weren't going to be able to go where O'Reilly wanted to go (and I'll reiterate, it's only been Chambers that says talks were in the 8M AAV range, no one else has corroborated that--and Mike Chambers is an idiot), they did the smart thing and traded him. They got a good/great return...especially considering what other trades got since the draft.

He's off the team, the biggest thing is that we won't have this ongoing "saga" every summer. Why can't that be enough for some? Why can't we just move on ourselves?