OPPF 2020 - Assassination Thread

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,916
16,469
sorry bb, my comments on your team will have to be a driveby for now

Bill Barber - Peter Stastny - Todd Bertuzzi

this one raised my eyebrows majorly. he might be the worst defensive forward taken in this whole draft, only had 1.5 seasons where he was elite (but man was he elite), and when not dialed in (which was the entire rest of his prime) he took way more than his share of dumb penalties while mostly underexerting himself physically.

PK: Abel/Lemieux-Northcott-Cleghorn-Hatcher

PP: Lemieux-Béliveau-Bossy-Cleghorn-Coffey
PP: Mikhailov(net)-Stastny-Kane-Chara-Barber

i feel like what's the point of even having kevin hatcher if he's not going to be throwing bombs on one of your PP units? i'd take him off the PK2 and add him to PP2 in chara's place.

Not the most physical line but it should be all right. A line to go to war with. Marchand is a weak 1st liner but I don't really care as he fits well.

between marchand, clarke, and fleury, that team has three guys who people are going to want to beat the living daylights out of. ideally i'd like a big strong guy to fight marchand's battles for him. i guess he better hope he's on the ice with your second d pair? protecting three guys on three lines is a lot to ask of that second pair, though, especially when both guys also have heavy special teams responsibilities.

3rd pairing: I really don't like this one after the 2nd pairing. Two offensively-oriented defensemen (from what I know, Carlson, for most of his career, wasn't anything to write home about defensively; am I wrong?). The reason I don't like it is that looking at your blueline as a whole, it is a bit thin on defense, which is a pity on such a defensively-conscious team.

i think the bigger worry is carlson playing his off side on the PK2. and rob blake is a good crease clearer and i don't think he's as bad defensively as people say, but if carlson killing penalties for me, i'd want to give him a steadier partner.

Love Suter and MacInnis, though even Pietrangelo could play there.

i didn't notice this but nice one sneaking that in there., @ResilientBeast

As I see Cleghorn, the only second-pairing Defenceman in the entire league who has a case for being on or above his tier as a player is Larry Robinson.

i have pierre pilote on my second pair
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,105
1,391
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
Returning to the polyhedron-of-fate, it says:
iu

and that means...
images


Coach: Hap Day

Alex Ovechkin - Cyclone Taylor - Marian Hossa
Jamie Benn - Henri Richard (A) - Charlie Conacher
Jiri Holik - Milt Schmidt (A) - Mark Recchi
Kevin Stevens - Don Luce - David Backes

Red Kelly - Valeri Vasiliev (K)
Ching Johnson - Drew Doughty
Roman Josi - Cy Wentworth

Glenn Hall
Mikka Kiprusoff


PP1
Benn - Taylor - Conacher
Ovechkin - Kelly

PP2
K. Stevens - H. Richard - Schmidt
Doughty - Recchi

PK1
Holik - Luce
C. Johnson - Vasiliev

PK2
Schmidt - Backes
Kelly - Wentworth

PK3
H. Richard - Hossa


Extra PK D: Doughty
Regular Season Estimated Minutes
Forwards
PlayerESPPPKTotal
A. Ovechkin15520
C. Taylor14418
M. Hossa14216
J. Benn12416
H. Richard133117
C. Conacher14418
J. Holik11314
M. Schmidt113216
M. Recchi11213
K. Stevens8311
D. Luce8412
D. Backes729
TOTAL1382814180
Defense
PlayerESPPPKTotal
R. Kelly175224
V. Vasiliev15419
C. Johnson15419
D. Doughty182121
R. Josi1414
C. Wentworth13316
TOTAL92714113
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Unique among the teams assembled here, as they appear to have, beyond argument, the best chance of surviving an injury on the blue-line. Always appreciate the thoroughness of an HT18 Roster Post in the Assassination-Thread-- and not shy about saying that it's been an influence on me.

Line 1: It is a testament to the concentration-of-talent in a 12-team league to say that one of the two Hockey Superstars pre-Morenz (the other- Nighbor), Cyclone Taylor, is average in context. He's joined by someone who's on the short-list for all-time great LWs, Ovechkin. I'm something of a fan of Marian Hossa... and he was one of my agonizing late-cuts from my 120-list in HoH Top-100. He deserves his First Ballot Hall-of-Fame status. Great blend of high skill and strong defensive conscience, and should help you weather Ovechkin's kapok moments.

Line 2: I've been parsimonious with my praise for Henri Richard... but I took a longer look at him this time around, as he would have been a possible 'plan-B' for my 'Lightning Line' if Fedorov had been scooped from me. Don't think I can sugar-coat that I find Jamie Benn below-average in a twelve-team paradigm. That seems more-than-compensated by Charlie Conacher, who gives you a primary scoring threat from the other side and figures to provide a pleasant option to Hap Day when you're at The Amphitheater and get last-change. [I, for one, think that Conacher's putative dodgy defensive reputation is overblown... but I'm not going to let review of him off without noting that he's oft-injured... and that carries risks on a 20-man roster.]

Line 3: Big-time luxury-casting with Milt Schmidt. Along with Recchi on the right, it gives you what appears to be the best third-line 1-2 in the league. I'm not as sold on Holik as I am on a few of his Czechoslovak teammates... but with Schmidt-Recchi, what does it really matter?!

Line 4: Looks like a solid, good value set of competitors.

Defensive Pairing #1: you burned the Detroit Card early-ish to get Red Kelly, who (to me) was the last of the Ultra-Elite LDs available. I'm not as sky-high on him as most... but then again, I think Vasiliev is really underrated, so I suppose it's a wash. As a 1-pairing, I like WHERE your Senior Partner is, on-the-ice.

Defensive Pairing #2: Ching Johnson could use a non-hyperbolic advocate. In the past, his tires had been pumped beyond the recommended PSI-rating. I should clear my mind of that experience and entertain a more measured approach. Suppose I'm higher on Doughty than most. He should count for a lot when it's clear that his team has something to play for.

Defensive Pairing #3: Josi & Wentworth have their place on the depth-chart on-the-merits, and their relevance is reflected in your time-on-ice chart.

Speaking of which, (I've personally discovered that) one of the perils of posting a time-on-ice chart is that gives people another thing at which to pick. I will say (by way of of a not-so-veiled tu quoque reference) that your time-on-ice chart seems to reflect a certain time and effort-cost-management allocation of resources suitable for The Regular Season, and will likely be revised once The Playoffs start. All of your team's stars can be stretched to absorb more time- with the lone possible exception of Red Kelly.

Goaltending: Much as I know that it ain't the vibe you're going for, Glenn Hall gives teams a chance for Regular Season Champion. No more Mr. Irrelevant will exist (in any ATD) as Hall's back-up. Hopefully Glenn Hall will enjoy the occasional off-day afforded by Kiprusoff.

Coaching: Hap Day. Will love: Hossa, H. Richard, Schmidt, Ching Johnson [I suppose]. Will make peace with: Red Kelly, Recchi, Conacher. Then there's Ovechkin. That interaction might be good for a few headlines...

(... speaking of which) Leadership: Vasiliev is best-poised to play the role of pressure-valve for that dynamic. Many good options for your letter-assignments, and the ones you chose make sense to me.

To speak metaphorically, Roster Posts in the Assassination Thread ~ Training Camp.
Detailed Roster Posts in the Assassination Thread ~ Really thorough Training Camp.
Assassinations performed in the Assassination Thread ~ Scouting.

@BenchBrawl 's Montreal Wanderers Scouts are living up to their team nickname by travelling all over the place!


That aside, congratulations on (yet another) really thorough Training Camp. Your squad's going to be a handful.
 
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BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,902
13,702
images


Coach: Hap Day

Alex Ovechkin - Cyclone Taylor - Marian Hossa
Jamie Benn - Henri Richard (A) - Charlie Conacher
Jiri Holik - Milt Schmidt (A) - Mark Recchi
Kevin Stevens - Don Luce - David Backes

Red Kelly - Valeri Vasiliev (K)
Ching Johnson - Drew Doughty
Roman Josi - Cy Wentworth

Glenn Hall
Mikka Kiprusoff


PP1
Benn - Taylor - Conacher
Ovechkin - Kelly

PP2
K. Stevens - H. Richard - Schmidt
Doughty - Recchi

PK1
Holik - Luce
C. Johnson - Vasiliev

PK2
Schmidt - Backes
Kelly - Wentworth

PK3
H. Richard - Hossa


Extra PK D: Doughty
Regular Season Estimated Minutes
Forwards
PlayerESPPPKTotal
A. Ovechkin15520
C. Taylor14418
M. Hossa14216
J. Benn12416
H. Richard133117
C. Conacher14418
J. Holik11314
M. Schmidt113216
M. Recchi11213
K. Stevens8311
D. Luce8412
D. Backes729
TOTAL1382814180
Defense
PlayerESPPPKTotal
R. Kelly175224
V. Vasiliev15419
C. Johnson15419
D. Doughty182121
R. Josi1414
C. Wentworth13316
TOTAL92714113
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Interesting 1-2-3 centers, who are all usually ranked in the same ballpark.

1st line: I always struggle gauging Taylor's defensive value. Anyhow, this is a classic line: Physicality provided by Ovechkin (supported by Hossa), offense provided by Ovechkin and Taylor (supported by Hossa), and defense provided by Hossa. Well-constructed chemistry.

2nd line: Ambivalent. The way I'd put it is the chemistry is not bad, but not great. Benn feel redundent with Conacher already there, as he doesn't provide any defense to help out Henri. You'll tell me Benn has more playmaking abilities, which is true, but even taking that into account I can't shake off the feeling of redundency. In the classic Moore-Henri-Richard line, true that Moore provided some playmaking, but he also provided defense and way more gritty than Benn (who, in his career as a whole, wasn't much of a physical player IMO). Than in the 1960's Henri played Provost, another excellent defensive winger. Maybe I'm too severe, because I can sorta see some shadow of the Moore-Henri-Richard line in there.

3rd line: Good recreation of the Kraut line in light of Recchi being more of a playmaker than I remembered him being. It looks clear those lines don't have any specific task or role, and are just generic two-way units (especially the 2nd and 3rd lines, which is why I'd have prefer Henri to have more support defensively). That said, as a "jack-of-all-trades" type of Top 9, it has a lot of great players and the chemistry is always at least tenable, and better on the 1st and 3rd lines.

4th line: Love it, very physical and responsible.

A word on forwards TOI: Richard not having the most ES minute is a travesty. I get and accept that even though he didn't play PK or PP much IRL, it doesn't mean he's not a good choice for those. But ideally, I'd try to at least play him to his strenght a little more, since he proved he was an elite ES player.

1st pairing: Classic O-D pairing. Vasiliev is a good captain, though I wouldn't put him in the great or elite category. Otherwise not much to say about it. Kelly gives you a good #1D, which is important because you have no real #2D (or at least, no strong one).

2nd pairing: Very solid defensively, a bit lacking offensively, depending what you think of Drew Doughty. You procrastinated a long time on your blueline, but still managed to get a solid if unspectacular Top 4. Getting Ching so late was a big boost. On the value level, there's a gap between your #1D and whoever is your #2D, but your 2-3-4 defensemen are all solid.

3rd pairing: Solid.

Glenn Hall is a stud and makes the backup superfluous. But Kiprusoff is good too, as superfluous as he will be behind Hall.

PP1: Excellent, though Kelly wasn't as great a PPQB as you'd expect for an offensive defenseman of his stature. He was under Harvey and Gadsby in his era IIRC. Ovechkin is elite, and Taylor-Conacher are solid. Not sure what to think of Benn here, as I presume he's the net presence. Unknown.

PP2: This unit is pretty weak. Already Henri on a PP is a so-so strategy that you do from lack of option, Stevens is a good net presence and Schmidt I guess is good as a generic offensive contributor to the unit, but Doughty-Recchi doesn't strike fear in my heart.

PK1: Solid.

PK2: forwards are great, defensemen so-so.

Overall a word I would use to describe this team is deep. It' had a lot of layers to it, especially upfront. It has no super-weakness. It fits well with the coach Hap Day too. I would call it a grinding team, that beats you by grinding you up match-up after match-up. Would be interesting to see it in action in the playoffs.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,340
6,506
South Korea
VanIslander's

Portland Winterhawks
coach Anatoli Tarasov
Soviet-style: star wingers & grinding pivots

Bobby Hull - Elmer Lach (A) - Sergei Makarov
Michel Goulet - Ron Francis (A) - Brett Hull
Patrik Elias - Pavel Datsyuk - Bryan Hextall, Sr.
John Tonelli - Ryan Kesler - Shane Doan

King Clancy - Raymond Bourque (C)
Lionel Conacher - Hod Stuart
Kevin Lowe - Eric Desjardins

Turk Broda
Jiri Holecek​

PK1: Broda, Datsyuk, Kesler, Bourque, Lowe
PK2: Broda, Francis, Makarov, Conacher, Desjardins
PP1: Hull, Lach, Makarov, Clancy, Bourque
PP2: Goulet, Francis, Hull, Stuart, Desjardins
 
Last edited:

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,105
1,391
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
Six teams who have been on the receiving end of but one Assassination- so I pick up the most well-known polyhedron-shape (cube) and the die-roll is... 2, which gives us:
remq0bkI_400x400.png


Coach: Tommy Ivan

Alex Delvecchio --- Phil Esposito (A) --- Hooley Smith
Paul Thompson --- Evgeni Malkin --- Bill Cook (A)
Busher Jackson --- Eric Lindros --- Frank Foyston
John Madden --- Dale Hunter --- Jason Pominville

Denis Potvin (C) --- Al MacInnis
Larry Robinson --- Erik Karlsson
Ryan Suter --- Alex Pietrangelo

Vladislav Tretiak
Grant Fuhr

PP1: Cook - Esposito - Malkin - Karlsson - MacInnis
PP2: Delvecchio - Lindros - Jackson - Potvin - Robinson
PK1: Smith - Madden - Potvin - Robinson
PK2: Delvecchio - Pominville - Suter - MacInnis
Line 1: Esposito deserves more credit as a Superstar in his own right than he generally seems to be given around these parts. That said, there's no denying that he's a build-challenge. Hooley Smith was a good card to play, in context-- and Alex Delvecchio should be all right. Delvecchio (like Clancy and Bathgate) adds value in this format by never being out of the lineup.

Line 2: Bill Cook the inarguable gem of the line. Malkin, compared to the other #2 Centers of the league, is just fine... but I think Paul Thompson is a casting-stretch here. I've said before that I think Paul Thompson is sort of a "Claude-Giroux-of-his-time." No great brickbat, that- Giroux's a handy player. That's just not the sort of player I'd try to sell as a 2nd-liner in a league of this caliber.

Line 3: (Where I break out into a chorus of "if I knew Busher like you know Busher!")... I noted that you have Busher Jackson well within your list of 100 top players. That's a minority opinion, but doubtless a defensible one. Yeah, yeah, the Frank Selke book and all that- but funny thing about that one. When I crunched the numbers on Charlie Conacher and made my discovery [central conclusion, Conacher was making a measurable difference between winning and losing even when not scoring goals], I have to consider that all is not as Selke testifies. Unfortunately, the idea of Jackson as defensive liability is so hard-wired into so many that the burden-of-proof is on those who would try to assert otherwise. Your selection of Lindros at #124 overall leads me to the conclusion that if you had to do HoH Top-100 again, you wouldn't have Lindros on life-support-clinging to Position #120-- and that is to the good. However, if I'm going to give extra-credit to Delvecchio for (almost) always answering-the-bell, I have to mete out the contrary impact for Lindros, who WILL miss time and require an occasional Delvecchio fill-in plus extra-shifting from your other Centers. I can be sold on Foyston as a top-3 figure as a 3rd-line RW in this league... but taken as a group, here's the vibe I get from this Top-9:

Some have gone with the traditional '1-2-3' casting for the top lines.
Others have gone '1a, 1b, 2/3 (ish),'

This set feels like '2a, 2b, 2c.' It's really unconventional.

Line 4: Unusual blend of parts, two-thirds "sandpaper-line" model- a duo of reasonably skilled irritants, mated to a guy with five top-10 Byng finishes. To quote BenchBrawl, what am I missing?

Defensive Pairing #1- I've said before that (in this league) I just love an LD-alpha, and Denis Potvin is all that. MacInnis is also great- and you have an excellent first pairing, like just about everybody else.

Defensive Pairing #2 is where you separate yourself from the pack. Larry Robinson could be LD1 for half the teams here. Karlsson is probably better than I think he is, and is certainly superior to Kasatanov, or Brett Burns (whom I have in that role). Qualitatively, might be the best 2nd pairing this year.

I do feel a little monochrome over 'L-defensive D,' R-offensive D... repeat;' but I think that in this league, if you must have your brick walls on one side, make it the L-side.

Defensive Pairing #3- As a BlackHawk fan, Ryan Suter was the one player on Minnesota, more than any other, that gave me that feeling of "be careful here" when he was on the ice-- so he needs no additional salesmanship as far as I'm concerned. Pietrangelo is also fine in-context, so I'm buying into the quality here. More than enough to sop up minutes and keep your Lead-Dogs fresh.

Goaltending: few people higher on Tretiak than I am. Certainly no worse than middle-of-pack. If falling short, he won't be the reason. I find Fuhr overrated... but even if I'm right, it won't count for anything much.

Leadership: ample. Denis Potvin as 'C' good, Bill Cook as 'A' great, P. Esposito as 'A' all right, considering the alternatives.

Special Teams- frightening Power Play #1 (like so many others), heavy but not-quite-as-scary Power Play #2, PKs look like they'll live on the contributions of the last line of defense. Having a hard time getting a feel for your PP/PK differential. Dale Hunter, of course, is a Penalty Magnet... but he won't be on the ice enough to make that as relevant as it might seem. Lindros and Hooley Smith between them are good for about a minor each per game- though I agree with my late brother's observation that Lindros was 'more-sinned-against-than-sinning.' [Where do you go to get the stat 'Penalties Drawn?!] Balanced against that is Extraordinary Gentleman Alex Delvecchio, who will be on the ice a lot, one way or the other.

Coaching: it will be Tommy Ivan's task to make the eclecticism work. As good a choice as any, I suppose.

Summarizing- this is one team that definitely does not come from Central Casting. If we were going with an 8-team Playoff (which, evidently- we're not), I have it as containing enough horsepower to get a berth into the brackets. Then, it'll be interesting to look at how this team compares in a head-to-head with someone else. We'll learn more in the sharp light of The Playoffs.
 
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BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,902
13,702
VanIslander's

Portland Winterhawks
coach Anatoli Tarasov
Soviet-style: star wingers & grinding pivots

Bobby Hull - Elmer Lach (A) - Sergei Makarov
Michel Goulet - Ron Francis (A) - Brett Hull
Patrik Elias - Pavel Datsyuk - Bryan Hextall, Sr.
John Tonelli - Ryan Kesler - Shane Doan

King Clancy - Raymond Bourque (C)
Lionel Conacher - Hod Stuart
Kevin Lowe - Eric Desjardins

Turk Broda
Jiri Holecek​

PK1: Broda, Datsyuk, Kesler, Bourque, Lowe
PK2: Broda, Francis, Makarov, Conacher, Desjardins
PP1: Hull, Lach, Makarov, Clancy, Bourque
PP2: Goulet, Francis, Hull, Stuart, Desjardins

Welcome back, glad to see you here.

1st line: Elite pair of wingers, wonder how Hull and Makarov will do together. Both like the puck. Lach is a weak 1st line center but he's OK there as the two-way presence behind elite offensive wingers. The line efficiency will depend on Hull and Makarov's ability to work together.

2nd line: I think this is your 3rd line, but it's close. Francis and Goulet bring the physicality by committee, Francis is another two-way force and a good playmaker for Hull (wish you had taken Modano, whom I prefer to Francis, but Francis-Hull works there). Goulet is a good complementary scorer giving more pass options to Francis.

3rd line: Near equal to your 2nd line. Hextall is one of the hardest hitter and a solid goalscorer, Datsyuk brings the defense and stickhandling, Elias can make plays and support Datsyuk defensively. I think it's a great 3rd line.

You have a great trio of RWers, like my own team. However it must be said that your center line, while competent two-way centers, are a little on the weak side compared to what is out there in the rest of the league.

4th line: Solid pesty/defensive unit.

1st pairing: Probably the greatest pairing in the draft. An elite #1D and another #1D to complement him. Clancy is clearly a #1D, albeit low-end. They will be particularly dangerous offensively, but obviously very good defensively too.

2nd pairing: I know you disagree since you're a big Lionel Conacher fan, but while I like the pairing as a unit, it does lack a true #3D at this level IMO. Not ab ig dela, but the drop is significant from your 1st pairing to your 2nd because of this.

3rd pairing: Solid defensive pairing.

Broda is a playoff stud and I like dynasty goalies. Like me you took care of getting an elite backup in Holecek.

1st PP is great, with Clancy-Bourque being an elite pairing, as well as Hull and Makarov providing the elite skills needed. Should be a scary unit.

2nd PP is OK. Brett the biggest threat on it.

PK is good all around.

Overall the main strenghts are the elite 1st pairing (have you considered splitting them?) and the wingers, which are both elite and deep. Weakness are the centers and lack of #3D.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
San Jose Rubber Puckies

10556267_1090779030953983_6049514389326638206_n.jpg


Coach: Scotty Bowman

Ted Lindsay (A) - Howie Morenz - Jaromir Jagr
Vladimir Krutov - Stan Mikita - Vaclav Nedomansky
Brian Propp - Anze Kopitar - Daniel Alfredsson (A)
Gary Roberts - Vincent LeCavalier - Blake Wheeler

Borje Salming - Brad Park
Moose Johnson - Dit Clapper (C)
Derian Hatcher - Sergei Gonchar

Martin Brodeur
Mike Liut

PP1: Ted Lindsay - Howie Morenz - Jaromir Jagr - Daniel Alfredsson - Sergei Gonchar
PP2: Vladimir Krutov - Stan Mikita - Vaclav Nedomansky - Dit Clapper - Brad Park
PK1: Anze Kopitar - Brian Propp - Moose Johnson - Derian Hatcher
PK2: Howie Morenz - Vladimir Krutov - Borje Salming - Dit Clapper
Spare PK: Stan Mikita - Daniel Alfredsson, Brad Park
I currently have Alfredsson penciled in over Park on the point of PP1, because I like having both LH and RH shots on the points of both PP units. Does anyone think I should swap Park back up to PP1? FWIW, according to @overpass 's spreadsheet, Alfredsson averaged 28 adjusted PPP per season, Park 27 adjusted PPP per season, though I'm not sure how much of Alfredsson's was at forward.

1st Line - Love the look of it, I do wonder about the fit between Morenz and Jagr, they both like having the puck on their stick. Lindsay played in the shadow of dominant RW so no issues there. Morenz and Lindsay are responsible defensive players at best so the unit won't be a tremendous detriment if the puck is going the other way. Overall a well balanced unit in terms of the core attributes, just some questions regarding Morenz and Jagr.

2nd Line - Another well balanced unit, Krutov playing with a juiced up version of Larionov is a nice touch. Nedomansky is a big strong goal scorer so the unit looks pretty decent. I wonder about Nedomansky as the second liner in a OPPF but otherwise the unit looks pretty decent.

3rd Line - Two way checking line, looks pretty solid to me, will certainly provide some depth scoring

4th Line - An energy scoring line? Some of the parts are intriguing, I wonder how Bowman would feel about a 4th line that seems exclusively geared towards offence

1st Pair - Solid if not unspectacular. Park is below average as a 1D in a 12 teammer and so is Salming. The fit between the two is solid, just lacking talent wise for a draft this size

2nd Pair - You make up for it here, Clapper is among the best 3D in the draft and pairing him with Johnson gives you a tremendous shutdown pairing. Solid puck moving, skating and toughness. This pairing is among my favorites in the draft

3rd Pairing - Classic all defence and all offence bottom pairing to help fill special teams slots. The pairing itself features two players who will actually be fairly reliable at ES

Goalies - Brodeur is a workhorse and top 5 goalie all time. Your backup doesn't really matter all that much to me. He'll like playing behind this defence and I'm sure will be encouraged to help start the rush with a breakout pass.

Overall a very balanced team, some questions about top line fit and then some of your lower positions look to be filled with a little bit weaker talent but that is how the OPPF. Another in a long line of strong entries TDMM good work.
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
1st line: You'll have to refresh my memory, but the LWer playing with Stewart-Smith was Babe Siebert, right? Depending who it was would determine what score I give you in this recreation. Siebert was way more physical than Delvecchio. Regardless, I still love the line in itself, though it sacrificed quite a bit of value as a 1st line in order to accommodate Esposito. It is almost strange that an Espo line is that good defensively.

2nd line: Great 2nd line offensively, solid on the physical level, but weak defensively. I love Malkin-Cook a lot, but would really have preferred a better defensive LWer than Thompson, whom I don't buy has any all-around game. Furthermore, Malkin behind Espo is questionable choice. Would have preferred a two-way center to diversify.

3rd line: Again this is the major weakness of the team: You literally have no center that is really strong defensively. Lindros is OK there, but he won't be confused for a shut-down C. Anyway, at least your Top 3 centers are big and strong and will be hard to contain physically. I love Jackson-Lindros, as Jackson is some sort of more "rush-to-the-net" John LeClair. Foyston is fine as the jack-of-all-trades on the line, the "Renberg". Decent recreation of the legion-of-doom. I like it in isolation; not as much behind your actual Top 6 for reasons already stated.

4th line: OK.

1st pairing: Not sure how much I like MacInnis as a partner for Potvin, but it's probably good. A solid 1st pairing.

2nd pairing: The main strenght of your team: having two great #1 defensemen. Robinson is a stud on the 2nd pairing and guarantees you an elite D almost all the time on the ice at ES. I don't like Karlsson as Robinson's partner however. This forces Robinson into a more defensive role, which is limiting for him since he was a good skater and offensive defenseman in his own right. Robinson excelled with savard, and to a lesser extent Lapointe, both of which were much better than Karlsson defensively.

3rd pairing: Truly excellent pairing. I would very, very tempting to put Pietrangelo with Robinson over Karlsson. Then Suter-Karlsson would also be a kickass pairing.

Tretiak is good. Love Fuhr as backup.

PP1: Karlsson over Denis Potvin on the PP, seriously? Change that asap. f*** this shit! Even if you came up with the numbers and they looked close, do you really want to put big ego team captain Denis Potvin on the 2nd PP wave? An insult! Once you flip them, your 1st PP unit will be terrifying. A major strenght for this squad. Espo the elite net presence, Cook and Malkin solid PP forwards, and a MacInnis-Potvin pairing is insane.

PP2: Karlsson-Robinson would make for a great 2nd PP pairing. Forwards are not that good but not bad neither.

PK1: Great! Big strenght. Incredible pairing.

PK2: Pominville was a good PKer? Had no idea. Love Suter and MacInnis, though even Pietrangelo could play there.

Leadership: Very strong and deep too. Potvin and Cook were great captains, and guys like Esposito, Robinson, Foyston gives a lot of leadership depth.

Overall, you were ballsy in recreating known line forms, which I respect, but there are a couple of global mistakes that are hard to ignore, the most crucial of which is the lack of defense from your centers, which tends to be unforgiving in history. Potvin and Robinson on the blueline is a huuuge strenght, and your 3rd pairing is solid too, so your blueline is really great (chemistry details aside).

I agree that the lack of a defensive center is a huge problem, just one I couldn't feel like I could've fixed during the draft. I was hoping that building a bonkers defence and taking the all 5 skaters into consideration would help mitigate some of those concerns.

I will switch Potvin & Karlsson on the PP and then will consider making the Pietrangelo & Karlsson switch as well.

Pominville as 21% PK usage for teams 3% above average, he's a weak second unit PKer but passable considering the rest of the unit.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,916
16,469
can i get some advice on this?

PP2

firsov trottier pavelski
pronger cameron

vs

pavelski trottier anderson
firsov cameron


(PP1 is n stewart, yzerman, kucherov, pilote, bathgate)
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,340
6,506
South Korea
Thanks BB.
1st line: Elite pair of wingers, wonder how Hull and Makarov will do together. Both like the puck. Lach is a weak 1st line center but he's OK there as the two-way presence behind elite offensive wingers. The line efficiency will depend on Hull and Makarov's ability to work together.
Makarov wasn't a selfish puckhog, he was a pass-first Soviet. He even said when he went to the NHL that coaches there said he should pass less and shoot more! Here he has Soviet guru Tarasov preaching "look for the pass first", in this case, "Get the puck to Bobby". Once I took Hull I knew the greatest left winger ever needed a specific set of complementary linemates, and I identified early what my options were. Hull-Makarov are like Selanne-Kariya, or more aptly: like typical Soviet teams where the wingers are the superstars and the centers have the most defensive responsibilities of the line (eg., Petrov, Larionov). Lach I thought an ideal third star of the top line, renowned for his lightning speed, elite grit and corner play, checking and passing. He has an Art Ross season, a Hart, three times 1st in NHL assists despite doing the dirty work for the line, twice 1st in Stanley Cup championship playoff assists. Only Frank Nighbor, Bobby Clarke (both clearly unavailable if I took Bourque with Hull) or Sid Abel were alternative ideal options for the line. And I thought Lach=Abel, so was willing to wait, since Montreal & Detroit I predraft targetted as too deep to burn a pick on early.
2nd line: I think this is your 3rd line, but it's close. Francis and Goulet bring the physicality by committee, Francis is another two-way force and a good playmaker for Hull (wish you had taken Modano, whom I prefer to Francis, but Francis-Hull works there). Goulet is a good complementary scorer giving more pass options to Francis.
Glad you see that. Portland has a 2A and 2B line, the difference is 2A is built to get the puck to Brett Hull, an elite trigger man whereas 2B is built to defensively face opposing top lines when protecting a lead, well capable of scoring on turnovers on transition.
3rd line: Near equal to your 2nd line. Hextall is one of the hardest hitter and a solid goalscorer, Datsyuk brings the defense and stickhandling, Elias can make plays and support Datsyuk defensively. I think it's a great 3rd line.
Yep. The 2B line tasked with a lot of ice time against opposition top lines when protecting a lead. 6-time Selke finalist, 3-time winner Datsyuk has the speed, stickhandling and defensive skill to face and pickpocket (Frank Nighbor style) the puck from the opposing top center, having done so his whole career (led Russia in Olympic scoring two tourneys 'cuz his national team needed scoring more than his NHL coaches demanded of him. But when Elias or Hextall recover pucks and feed Pavel, expect Datsyukian dekes to undress great dmen (only in Mario have I seen equivalent stickwork past blueliners in traffic).
You have a great trio of RWers, like my own team. However it must be said that your center line, while competent two-way centers, are a little on the weak side compared to what is out there in the rest of the league.
It's a great trio of LWers, too! Hull the best ever, Goulet solid 2nd liner, Elias elite 3rd liner. Tonelli a 3rd line worthy depth option, more than capable of greater ice time in case of injury or game situation.

As for centers, the bottom two lines have elite skillsets (Datsyuk, Kesler), and the top two are supposed to help star wingers! We are building lines, so every line needs a 3rd wheel, a role player. Here it's great defensive passing pivots renowned for their hard work getting pucks to linemates (Lach, Francis).

Note: I do not think Modano better than Francis. Mike was faster and a better shooter but Ron was a better passer and checker, skills my lines needed at center. Plus, no one outworked Francis (it has been said of the 12-year captain) whereas Modano was criticized a few times early in his career for lack of effort at times (though Hitchcock changed him in Dallas).
4th line: Solid pesty/defensive unit.
5-time Selke finalist Kesler will look to get the puck to dmen (Bourque, Hod Stuart) or linemate Tonelli, John having scored significantly at the highest levels of competition as a role player: 1984 Canada Cup MVP, scoring 63 playoff points over the 4-year Isles dynasty, "The Greasy Jet" renowned for several clutch goals playing on the 2nd line.
1st pairing: Probably the greatest pairing in the draft. An elite #1D and another #1D to complement him. Clancy is clearly a #1D, albeit low-end. They will be particularly dangerous offensively, but obviously very good defensively too.
I figured if I was going to recreate Soviet-style magic, the team needed an elite top pairing like Fetisov-Kasatonov provided. But it's a 12-team all-time situation, so I upgraded both of the duo. Bourque gives Clancy the freedom to be, well, King Clancy!
2nd pairing: I know you disagree since you're a big Lionel Conacher fan, but while I like the pairing as a unit, it does lack a true #3D at this level IMO.
Hod Stuart was a superstar, arguably the greatest defenseman ever until Cleghorn. Conacher was an athletic beast who could physically go against the biggest opposing forwards, especially around the crease. I see it as a solid 3D with a solid 4D, though you might see it as two solid 4Ds.
3rd pairing: Solid defensive pairing.
Lowe was named Best Shotblocker of the 1980's by Ultimate Hockey. I remember him as a defense-first blueliner who let Coffey and Huddy be the rushers. On the flashy Oilers, Lowe was boring, a dependable leader who was praised by teammates, not a highlight reel guy.

Desjardins was a heavy-minute all-situation blueliner who was very responsible, yet could move the puck up ice without pinching or rushing deep riskily.
Broda is a playoff stud and I like dynasty goalies. Like me you took care of getting an elite backup in Holecek.
He was ranked the 3rd greatest Stanley Cup hero goalie in the HOH project. Holecek may be as good as Tretiak or better, as has said some ATDers.
1st PP is great, with Clancy-Bourque being an elite pairing, as well as Hull and Makarov providing the elite skills needed. Should be a scary unit.
Makarov's pass-first mentality will have him feeding Bobby Hull in the slot or Ray Bourque at the point: the hardest shot ever or the most prolific shooter ever. He can't go wrong choosing between them.
2nd PP is OK. Brett the biggest threat on it.
Yes, getting the puck to Brett Hull is the priority. He is 2nd all time in regular season pp goals (though Ovechkin should pass him soon), 1st all time in playoff pp goals (ahead of Gretzky & Bossy), no one else having scored more - 300+ pp goals - regular season and playoffs combined.

But, again, you don't mention Hod Stuart. He should be impactful.
PK is good all around.
I listed pk units first because I think so highly of them. Kesler can play wingman to Datsyuk and 2nd faceoff option (refs throw guys out of the circle sometimes), Ryan having been a Selke finalist the year he played wingman to Sundin. Bourque does everything and Lowe is a shot blocker and net presence. But, remember, a team's #1 pker is the netminder. Broda shut out great Habs teams during his 5-cup wins, including their pp.

Thanks again for the Winterhawks review, BB.
 
Last edited:

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
76,597
4,556
Behind A Tree
MONTREAL MAROONS!

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Team Overview:


  • 4 line, relentless attacking to wear down opposition.
  • Strong 2 way hockey up and down lineup
  • Elite top end C talent and depth with 6 players capable of playing C
  • Puck possession is name of game, especially out of dot with Clarke/Kennedy
  • Puck transition from D to O with Leetch, Chelios, Blake, Carlson, and Boyle is strength
  • Physical top 4 on blue line
  • Superior clutch play featuring, Plante, Crosby, Kennedy, Leetch, Kurri especially

Coach:

Joel Quenneville


Forwards:

Brad Marchand - Sidney Crosby (C) - Jari Kurri

Marchand is a 200 foot demon. Yes he sometimes borders on the edge (and crosses) of legal but he's one of the all time great agitators and has developed into a strong offensive player. He and Crosby have had a ton of success together on the international stage, though the sample size is small. Crosby is Crosby. Kurri should love playing with Sid (and vice versa) as the latter is a poor man's Gretzky (offensively) in most areas, namely vision and passing. This is a line I have no problems putting up against any other top 6 unit. They can all play 200 feet at an above average level.


Cy Denneny - Bobby Clarke (A) - Vladimir Martinec

Power on power more often than not here. Denneny played and excelled in a defensive/counter scheme in Ottawa under Pete Green, putting up great offensive totals. He was noted as a policeman for players like Nighbor and that rep, along with his finishing ability, will play wonderfully next to Clarke. Speaking of Clarke, he is one of the best defensive C's of all time on top of providing elite face off ability (possession) and great offense in a 2nd line capacity. His vision/passing ability should play well with the wings here as will his feistiness in the corners and high traffic areas. Martinec provides excellent all around offensive ability. He was regarded well as a defensive hockey player, especially on the PK. For teams with really strong top lines, you will likely see Kurri dropped down here to enhance the line's 2 way acumen even more.


Joe Malone - Ted Kennedy (A) - Alexander Maltsev

Relentless pressure continues offensively. Malone may get dinged a little for being at LW but it should be minimal as this is a 3rd line role and his line mates are stellar, good fits. His goal scoring is way above average for this role regardless. Kennedy brings incredible fore checking and face off ability to the mix. He can dig pucks and create space for the wingers while still being strong offensively for a 3rd line role. Maltsev will handle the puck quite a bit and engineer the line from RW. His speed, skill and creativity will keep opposing teams on their heels.


Craig Ramsay - Mike Modano - Theo Fleury

This line can play either direction. Ramsay is one of the best defensive LW'ers of all time with solid ES scoring numbers for the role he played in real life. Modano's Selke record is quite good (including a finalist nod) as was his ability in the dot. Couple that with his offensive acumen and he makes for a very strong depth C. Fleury is just a little energizer bunny who will hit anything all over the ice, plays a strong 200 foot game, and like Modano brings way above the bar offense for a bottom 6/depth role.



Defensemen:

Brian Leetch - Chris Chelios

All American top pairing! Managed to get a bit of real life chemistry again here. Leetch and Chelios were partners for the US national team on multiple occasions including the rare US gold medal in the 1996 World Cup of Hockey. Chelios and Leetch combine to check off basically all the boxes you want. Puck transition is fantastic, especially on the left. Chelios brings a ton of physicality, even agitating behavior. He's a rich man's Duncan Keith. I think Q would LOVE deploying CC as his #1. Unlike a Paul Coffey, Leetch isn't a major liability in his own end. He's passable in that regard and with Chelios to his right can do what he did best and that is transition the puck via pass/skating. Both are high end #1 players on the PP and PK respectively. They also have 361 playoffs games between them. 4 Cups, a Conn Smythe.

Jack Stewart - Rob Blake

Pretty similar to the top pairing but this one is especially rugged. Stewart was the greatest Red Wing defensemen until Red Kelly showed up in the early 50's. EXTREMELY physical/strong player who would hit like a freight train but was clean about it. Didn't often get out of position to do it either. Blake provides strong puck transition and shot capabilities fro the point. Solid defensively with the ability to end the night of anyone who doesn't keep their head up in neutral/offensive ice. Another pair with a plethora of big game experience. Over 200 playoff games played and 3 Cups.

John Carlson - Dan Boyle

Puck transition and depth on special teams. Both peaked as multi time AS players. Both were high minute players on Cup winners. In a 12 team league you can probably do a bit better but there will be worse bottom pairings.


Goalies:

Jacques Plante

Billy Smith

Elite, clutch #1 and a very strong backup who knows a thing or two about winning Cups. Had the Smyth existed in Plante's time you'd have 2 winners here.


Special Teams:

PP 1:

Kurri (shoot/pass) - Crosby (the office) - Denneny (shoot)
Blake (trigger) - Leetch (QB)

PP2:

Maltsev - Malone/Modano/Clarke (will rotate) - Martinec
Carlson (trigger) - Boyle (QB)

PK 1:

Ramsay - Clarke
Stewart - Chelios

PK 2:

Martinec - Kennedy
Carlson - Blake

Spare PK'ers

Fleury
Marchand
Modano
Kurri

You've always been a good source for me on feedback with my team so I'll review your team now:

Line 1:
Marchand, Crosby and Kurri should be a good 1st line. Kurri, in real life, worked wonders with a Crosby like player in Gretzky and enjoyed great success so I expect good things from this line as well. Marchand has turned into one of the top pests in NHL history but is also a good offensive player as well. So a very good 1st line here.

Line 2:

I believe I used the Denneny-Clarke combo back in a previous ATD. These 2 are a good combo who should work well together. Denneny was a good goal scorer, one of the better ones of hockey’s early days. In Bobby Clarke you get a very good all around player, one of the best 2 way centres in hockey history. Martinec is the weak link of the line but still a good all around player. This is a very good 2nd line with 2 guys that have 1st line talent in Denneny and Clarke.

Line 3:

Malone is another good all time goal scorer. Like Brindamour on my team he’s not in his natural position so will be interesting to see how you make that work. Ted Kennedy gives you another dominant centre, your 1-2-3 centre group looks very good. Not sure what to think of Maltsev but on a line with Malone and Kennedy he should be fine. A good 3rd line IMO.

Line 4:

When it comes to defensive-minded Left Wingers I’m not sure many are better than Craig Ramsay. In a format like this Buffalo doesn’t have much to offer but they do offer one of the best goalies ever (Hasek) and a guy like Ramsay. Modano’s a good one as well and really gives your centre group that added 4 way punch. Theo Fleury will bring the spunk as well as clutch scoring. Overall a serviceable 4th line.

Defense Pairing 1:

I looked at Leetch in both this draft and the ATD. He’s a very good offensive defenseman for sure. Nice to get some sort of familiarity here with Chris Chelios. I think Chelios is among the weaker #1 defensemen here but the familiarity is there between these 2 so that makes up for it, that and the all around ability of the pairing.

Defense Pairing 2:

I’ve always been a fan of Rob Blake so that gives this pairing extra points for me. Stewart adds to the physicality of this pairing. So a good 2nd pairing here.

Defense Pairing 3:

In the past my assasinations have been mainly positive but I’m going to be negative on this pairing. I like both John Carlson and Dan Boyle but this pairing is to much of the same thing and for a bottom pairing their being both offensive minded will hurt you for sure. Again 2 talented guys but given their place in the lineup and their play style I’m not a fan at all.

Goalies:

Plante is one of the top goalies ever so almost automatically goalie is a position of strength for you. Billy Smith is a clutch playoff goalie which works well in this format. Goalie certainly won’t hurt your team, if anything it will strengthen your lineup.

Coaching:

Joel Quenneville is quickly rising up the all time coach rankings, still he’s on the weak end of coaches here which speaks more to the quality of the coaches here than anything, I think he’ll like your lineup particularly Clarke. Given he had a Clarke-lite player in Chicago.

Special Teams:

Not much to say, I think I’d give Malone a solid full time spot on the PP though. The guy is a good goal scorer and could provide some great value for your team. That pk 1 unit is awesome, Ramsay and Clarke together on a PK unit is the stuff dreams are made of for PK’s.

Final Thoughts:

Overall a solid group that should do good things here, good luck.
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
images


Coach: Hap Day

Alex Ovechkin - Cyclone Taylor - Marian Hossa
Jamie Benn - Henri Richard (A) - Charlie Conacher
Jiri Holik - Milt Schmidt (A) - Mark Recchi
Kevin Stevens - Don Luce - David Backes

Red Kelly - Valeri Vasiliev (K)
Ching Johnson - Drew Doughty
Roman Josi - Cy Wentworth

Glenn Hall
Mikka Kiprusoff


PP1
Benn - Taylor - Conacher
Ovechkin - Kelly

PP2
K. Stevens - H. Richard - Schmidt
Doughty - Recchi

PK1
Holik - Luce
C. Johnson - Vasiliev

PK2
Schmidt - Backes
Kelly - Wentworth

PK3
H. Richard - Hossa


Extra PK D: Doughty
Regular Season Estimated Minutes
Forwards
PlayerESPPPKTotal
A. Ovechkin15520
C. Taylor14418
M. Hossa14216
J. Benn12416
H. Richard133117
C. Conacher14418
J. Holik11314
M. Schmidt113216
M. Recchi11213
K. Stevens8311
D. Luce8412
D. Backes729
TOTAL1382814180
Defense
PlayerESPPPKTotal
R. Kelly175224
V. Vasiliev15419
C. Johnson15419
D. Doughty182121
R. Josi1414
C. Wentworth13316
TOTAL92714113
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


1st Line - That top line will be a nightmare to handle, the speed in transition will overpower many teams with weaker defensive forwards. You know Hossa better than I do so maybe I'm wrong, but Ovechkin and Taylor aren't the type of players to dig the puck out of the corners so you might face some challenges if the puck is deep in the opposing zone. But in transition a deadly unit.

2nd Line - Richard surrounded by power forwards, a simple looking unit that will be a pain in the *** to play against. Henri is a great compliment to Taylor down the middle. Conacher and Benn will be a hand full down low for teams without strong physical blueliners.

3rd Line - Your rendition of the Kraut line, Schmidt is an overqualified 3C in a draft this size, Recchi is a good compliment for his style. Strong playmaker with some two-way ability.

4th Line - Looks like some spare parts, to fill special teams units.

1st Pair - Look to mesh well stylistically, however might be an average pairing in terms of talent in a draft this size.

2nd Pair - A very strong pairing, Johnson will give Doughty the flexibility to engage offensively without fear. For a draft this size I think this is a strong second pairing

3rd Pair - Styalistically an excellent pairing, Wentworth was on my radar if I didn't take Hooley. Excellent defensive defenseman of similar caliber as McCrimmon, will allow Josi to join the play.

Goalies - No real comments Hall is Hall.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
HoustonAerosWHA.png


Coach: Al Arbour

Valeri Kharlamov - Wayne Gretzky (C) - Jere Lehtinen
John LeClair - Syl Apps Sr. (A) - Guy Lafleur
Bun Cook - Ryan Getzlaf - Ed Litzenberger
Dave Trottier - Mike Peca - Bob Bourne

Eddie Gerard (A) - Eddie Shore
Scott Niedermayer - Jan Suchy
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - Lester Patrick

Terry Sawchuk
Tom Barrasso

PP1: Kharlamov - Gretzky - Lafleur - Niedermayer - Shore

PP2: LeClair - Apps - Getzlaf - Patrick - Suchy

PK1: Peca - Lehtinen - Gerard - Vlasic

PK2: Bourne - Trottier - Niedermayer - Shore

1st Line - So we all see the firepower, but if the puck is swept into the corner who is going to battle? Lehtinen will certainly provide this unit with a defensive conscience but how will they get the puck back in the offensive zone? Gretzky and Kharlamov are tremendous with their stick so we will see some turnovers from that but the units overall lack of any physicality if a problem.

2nd Line - Apps strikes me as more of a playmaker so I have some questions about the fit with Lafleur, LeClair is there to provide some sandpaper and grit. There is no real defensive player on this line as far as I can see which will be a problem.

3rd Line - Spending two O6 picks on Bun Cook and Litzenberger seems like a waste. Cook especially. Is this supposed to be a checking line? I'm not sure what they're here to do for your team, the 4th line makes it look like another scoring line but I'm not sure how much they'll even score.

4th Line - Solid group of checkers, I assume will shadow some of the opposing teams better offensive units.

1st Pair - God that is a mean pairing, they will be violent and tough to play against. Talent wise it's a little weak, Gerard at 12 teams strikes me as more of a mid/low 3D, this wouldn't be an issue if you didn't take Niedermayer as you 3D who is of similar caliber.

2nd Pair - This pairing also looks a little light on talent for this draft, Suchy feels to me as a bottom pairing player while Niedermayer as we discussed is a low end 3D. Reading the bio on Suchy it seems he was a little more well rounded than I remembered. So I won't hammer this pairing on chemistry, but I don't think I like the fit.

3rd Pair - Patrick is a strong 5D in this draft, and you've provided him with a stay home partner while he joins the offense. Of all your pairings this one has the appropriate talent for this positions.

Goalies - Sawchuck is Sawchuk, I feel Barasso might take issues with being the backup
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,806
29,345
remq0bkI_400x400.png


Coach: Tommy Ivan

Alex Delvecchio --- Phil Esposito (A) --- Hooley Smith
Paul Thompson --- Evgeni Malkin --- Bill Cook (A)
Busher Jackson --- Eric Lindros --- Frank Foyston
John Madden --- Dale Hunter --- Jason Pominville

Denis Potvin (C) --- Al MacInnis
Larry Robinson --- Erik Karlsson
Ryan Suter --- Alex Pietrangelo

Vladislav Tretiak
Grant Fuhr

PP1: Cook - Esposito - Malkin - Karlsson - MacInnis
PP2: Delvecchio - Lindros - Jackson - Potvin - Robinson
PK1: Smith - Madden - Potvin - Robinson
PK2: Delvecchio - Pominville - Suter - MacInnis

Alright here we go.

Line 1 - Solid offensively. Espo is a great value pick and I think with your D corps he will be able to largely replicate his success with Orr.

Line 2 - Problems forming. Malkin is a good player and about right as a 2C, Cook is a monster and a great pickup to have on your Line 2. Thompson is a reach in this position. No PK D in your top 6 centers (setting aside Delvecchio), but that's not necessarily a problem depending on your bottom 6.

Line 3 - Ruh roh. Lindros kind of makes your top 3Cs very... samey, with the same strengths but most notably the same flaws. I could see this getting caved in defensively. Also with Malkin and Lindros, you have some very injury-prone players in important positions. Jackson highlights the defensive issues with this forward group. Foyston is solid.

Line 4 - Pominville arches my eyebrows a bit, but okay. Madden is great. Hunter is fine, but also not great defensively. So we have a very big hole in the middle checking. Better hope those guys never give up the puck.

Pairing 1 - Potvin is a stud. MacInnis is good, but... I think I'd prefer a more stay at home guy for Potvin? Still should be effective.

Pairing 2 - Robinson is pure luxury casting here. Karlsson kind of has the same comment as MacInnis - properly slotted but would have preferred someone who could let Robinson play Robinson's best game instead of playing a bit further back (Maybe Pietrangelo and EK could switch?).

Pairing 3 - Maybe the best third pairing as far as talent in the league, but I worry about Suter being a minute eater getting what is probably like 15 minutes a night. I would have probably preferred more of a specialist rather than a "good at everything, great at nothing" player like him as the #6 D, but that's nitpicking. Your D is your team strength, although there are a few chemistry questions.

Goaltending - Fine. Fuhr is a great backup and Tretiak is a league average starter behind a solid D.

Special Teams - PP will be *deadly*, but that's the standard in this league with the talent around. You could nitpick which D go on which unit, but there are no bad calls here.

PK is a concern, maybe with the Centers. MacInnis isn't my ideal PKer, but it's fine.

Solid team with some questions about defending.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
Montreal Wanderers
latest


Lester Patrick

Sid Abel (A) - Mario Lemieux - Mike Bossy
Baldy Northcott - Jean Béliveau (C) - Patrick Kane
Zach Parise - Dave Keon - Boris Mikhailov (A)
Bill Barber - Peter Stastny - Todd Bertuzzi

Zdeno Chara - Paul Coffey
Sprague Cleghorn - Art Coulter (A)
Mark Giordano - Kevin Hatcher

Clint Benedict
Roy Worters

PP: Lemieux-Béliveau-Bossy-Cleghorn-Coffey
PP: Mikhailov(net)-Stastny-Kane-Chara-Barber

PK: Keon-Mikhailov-Chara-Coulter
PK: Abel/Lemieux-Northcott-Cleghorn-Hatcher

1st Line - Magnificent, not much more I can say. Probably the best top line in the draft, when your worst player/glue guy of the line is a Hart Trophy winner you're going to have a good unit talent wise. I personally think the fit between Bossy and Mario is fine, Abel was a competent playmaker, so puck distribution is not an issue.

2nd Line - You survive the first line and now need to handle this. Northcott is obviously the weak link, there for additional checking as well as physicality. In general I have no words another well put together unit.

3rd Line - Your checking line. Parise strikes me as a little weak for 3rd line duties, but chemistry wise works. Keon diet Nighbor, so the offense is a bit suspect but will smother opposing centers. Boris hiding down on the 3rd line is quite the luxury. The unit will be tough to play against and capable of generating some offense.

4th Line - Another scoring line, seems fine to me

1st Pair - Coffey will be tremendous for your team able to generate tons of offense. Chara is a good partner for him, someone steady and not prone to joining the rush. His foot speed concerns me in this pairing however, if god forbid he gets caught out of position he won't be able to recover and with Coffey continually going on adventures that is bound to happen. Talent wise seems about average.

2nd Pair - Cleghorn would be a fine 2D and is a mean offensive D with clear two way ability. Coulter however seems a little overmatched as the 4D, he makes sense as defensive guy to partner with Cleghorn. Overall the pairing is strong because Cleghorn is quite good.

3rd Pair - I don't know how to feel about Gio in an ATD, K. Hatcher and him form a good looking pair stylistically, but this pairing doesn't quite seem up to the level in a 12 teamer. But that just might be me.

Goalies - Benedict is strong, but below average in a 12 teamer, Worters is among the best backups however.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
RICHMOND RENEGADES

Richmond_Renegades.PNG


Coach - Punch Imlach

Doug Bentley - Frank Boucher - Gordie Howe (A)
Ilya Kovalchuk - Peter Forsberg- Teemu Selanne
Esa Tikkanen - Doug Gilmour - Punch Broadbent
George Hay - Nick Backstrom - Joe Mullen


Scott Stevens (C) - Doug Harvey (A)
Victor Hedman - Alexei Kasatanov
Jim Schoenfeld - Brad McCrimmon


Frank Brimsek
Roberto Luongo

PP1:
Boucher - Howe - Selanne - Harvey - Forsberg
PP2:
Gilmour - Kovalchuk - Bentley - Backstrom - Hedman

PK1: Boucher - Tikkanen - Harvey - Stevens
PK2: Forsberg - Broadbent - Schoenfeld - McCrimmon

I would have checking from my centers if you didn't steal Forsberg from me....anyway

1st Line - An excellent looking Howe line, it does rely on him to do all the digging which could be an issue. Bentley and Boucher provide a lot of playmaking and two way play to the unit so overall it looks pretty good to me.

2nd Line - WTF is this, I'm not sure how you think this line will work. Really looks like too many mouths to feed on offense. Kovalchuk in his Thrashers tenure was a noted puck hog, which won't mesh well with Forsberg carrying the puck up the ice. If Forsberg is the primary playmaker and defensive conscience either he will be gassed after a period or will be lacking in one of those two areas. Selanne and Forsberg looks good to me, I would honestly consider bumping him down to 3rd line and moving Tik or Hay up. Make him the offensive centerpiece of a line and not some weird hanger on. Hay or Tik will free up Forsberg a little more offensively.

3rd Line - Please move Kovy down a line, Broadbent doesn't need the puck to be effective at what he does, Gilmour might take a light hit offensively but will have someone more competent to pass the puck to.

4th Line - Another scoring/two way line? Looks ok to me talent wise, heavy on the playmaking but should be acceptable.

1st Pair - You've got Harvey and Stevens together, they will be such a pain to handle for opposing forwards. Among the strongest pairs in the draft.

2nd Pair - Hedman.....I don't think he's quite ready to be a 4D in a 12 teamer. He's getting close, Kasatonov is a really good partner for him though, Hedman will be free to join the offense which will help some of your units a lot

3rd Pair - Looks ok, probably below par at 12 teams but good pieces for your PK units.

Goalies - Brimsek is likely an average starter at 12 teams, Luongo is a dependable backup.
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
Alright here we go.

Line 1 - Solid offensively. Espo is a great value pick and I think with your D corps he will be able to largely replicate his success with Orr.

Line 2 - Problems forming. Malkin is a good player and about right as a 2C, Cook is a monster and a great pickup to have on your Line 2. Thompson is a reach in this position. No PK D in your top 6 centers (setting aside Delvecchio), but that's not necessarily a problem depending on your bottom 6.

Line 3 - Ruh roh. Lindros kind of makes your top 3Cs very... samey, with the same strengths but most notably the same flaws. I could see this getting caved in defensively. Also with Malkin and Lindros, you have some very injury-prone players in important positions. Jackson highlights the defensive issues with this forward group. Foyston is solid.

Line 4 - Pominville arches my eyebrows a bit, but okay. Madden is great. Hunter is fine, but also not great defensively. So we have a very big hole in the middle checking. Better hope those guys never give up the puck.

Pairing 1 - Potvin is a stud. MacInnis is good, but... I think I'd prefer a more stay at home guy for Potvin? Still should be effective.

Pairing 2 - Robinson is pure luxury casting here. Karlsson kind of has the same comment as MacInnis - properly slotted but would have preferred someone who could let Robinson play Robinson's best game instead of playing a bit further back (Maybe Pietrangelo and EK could switch?).

Pairing 3 - Maybe the best third pairing as far as talent in the league, but I worry about Suter being a minute eater getting what is probably like 15 minutes a night. I would have probably preferred more of a specialist rather than a "good at everything, great at nothing" player like him as the #6 D, but that's nitpicking. Your D is your team strength, although there are a few chemistry questions.

Goaltending - Fine. Fuhr is a great backup and Tretiak is a league average starter behind a solid D.

Special Teams - PP will be *deadly*, but that's the standard in this league with the talent around. You could nitpick which D go on which unit, but there are no bad calls here.

PK is a concern, maybe with the Centers. MacInnis isn't my ideal PKer, but it's fine.

Solid team with some questions about defending.

I have bumped Pietrangelo up a pairing in the roster thread and paired Karlsson with Suter.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,701
8,837
Ontario
Thanks for the review, RB. As I had stated previously to BB, I know this wasn’t my finest effort. I didn’t have the same time and preparation as I have had in the past, and I decided to join at the last minute because I love drafting. But yeah, I definitely plan on being better prepared next time. This format is pretty darn cool, and I learned quickly that it’s not easy.

That being said, I still don’t think my team is terrible by any stretch. Sure, it has its holes in the physicality department and defensive play in that top 9, but I still think we’ll score enough to be successful. Now, just how successful remains to be seen.

Believe me when I say I didn’t plan on using my NYR and Chicago picks on Cook and Litzenberger lol. That’s just how the draft worked itself out for me, and they were the best available at the time when I chose from those clubs. I blame my lack of prep for that. But yeah, that hurt my club. Lesson learned for next time. But they definitely aren’t playing a checking role. That’s what the Peca line is for.

1st Line - So we all see the firepower, but if the puck is swept into the corner who is going to battle? Lehtinen will certainly provide this unit with a defensive conscience but how will they get the puck back in the offensive zone? Gretzky and Kharlamov are tremendous with their stick so we will see some turnovers from that but the units overall lack of any physicality if a problem.

2nd Line - Apps strikes me as more of a playmaker so I have some questions about the fit with Lafleur, LeClair is there to provide some sandpaper and grit. There is no real defensive player on this line as far as I can see which will be a problem.

3rd Line - Spending two O6 picks on Bun Cook and Litzenberger seems like a waste. Cook especially. Is this supposed to be a checking line? I'm not sure what they're here to do for your team, the 4th line makes it look like another scoring line but I'm not sure how much they'll even score.

4th Line - Solid group of checkers, I assume will shadow some of the opposing teams better offensive units.

1st Pair - God that is a mean pairing, they will be violent and tough to play against. Talent wise it's a little weak, Gerard at 12 teams strikes me as more of a mid/low 3D, this wouldn't be an issue if you didn't take Niedermayer as you 3D who is of similar caliber.

2nd Pair - This pairing also looks a little light on talent for this draft, Suchy feels to me as a bottom pairing player while Niedermayer as we discussed is a low end 3D. Reading the bio on Suchy it seems he was a little more well rounded than I remembered. So I won't hammer this pairing on chemistry, but I don't think I like the fit.

3rd Pair - Patrick is a strong 5D in this draft, and you've provided him with a stay home partner while he joins the offense. Of all your pairings this one has the appropriate talent for this positions.

Goalies - Sawchuck is Sawchuk, I feel Barasso might take issues with being the backup
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,902
13,702
Thanks to @ChiTownPhilly and @ResilientBeast for the assassinations, and I'm sorry I couldn't respond to you Chi; busy week and assassinating other teams was a priority for me than defending my own team. Also @vadim sharifijanov I apologize for not responding point-by-point to your comments. We'll have further opportunities to discuss all of this in the playoffs.
 
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ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,105
1,391
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo

As I see Cleghorn, the only second-pairing Defenceman in the entire league who has a case for being on or above his tier as a player is Larry Robinson.
i have pierre pilote on my second pair
As an impact-player, the peak of Sprague Cleghorn is comfortably north of Pierre Pilote and even Larry Robinson, I'd say. Take the savagery out of the equation and you have someone with a great case for top-50 player of all-time in Cleghorn.
1st pairing: Probably the greatest pairing in the draft. An elite #1D and another #1D to complement him. Clancy is clearly a #1D, albeit low-end. They will be particularly dangerous offensively, but obviously very good defensively too.
It's fine, no doubt- but as Clancy had his best years at RD, I like @The Macho King 's Richmond #1 pairing of Stevens-Harvey for that honor.
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,902
13,702
As an impact-player, the peak of Sprague Cleghorn is comfortably north of Pierre Pilote and even Larry Robinson, I'd say. Take the savagery out of the equation and you have someone with a great case for top-50 player of all-time in Cleghorn.It's fine, no doubt- but as Clancy had his best years at RD, I like @The Macho King 's Richmond #1 pairing of Stevens-Harvey for that honor.

Know what, I agree Stevens-Harvey is a better pairing than Clancy-Bourque because the chemistry and styles fit better. Just didn't think about it when doing my review. In any case they are close. Harvey is better than Bourque, but Clancy is better than Stevens.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,340
6,506
South Korea
According to overpass, King Clancy was on the left side when he was a 1st team all star the first time he was a Hart trophy finalist in 1930-31.

Bourque was a 1st team all star on the left side, though most of his years were on the right.

The greatest defensemen often shifted to accommodate a less flexible pairingmate. In this case Clancy or Bourque have been elite on either side.

They could line up
Clancy - Bourque
Or
Bourque - Clancy
Depending

And their styles complement each other. Clancy is free to freewheel, to rush, to go into traffic, to the net, to the puck, to agitate and take chances because he has a 100% responsible 15-time Norris finalist mate in Raymond to cover for him.
 
Last edited:

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,902
13,702
According to overpass, King Clancy was on the left side when he was a 1st team all star the first time he was a Hart trophy finalist in 1930-31.

Bourque was a 1st team all star on the left side, though most of his years were on the right.

The greatest defensemen often shifted to accommodate a less flexible pairingmate. In this case Clancy or Bourque have been elite on either side.

They could line up
Clancy - Bourque
Or
Bourque - Clancy
Depending

And their styles complement each other. Clancy is free to freewheel, to rush, to go into traffic, to the net, to the puck, to agitate and take chances because he has a 100% responsible 15-time Norris finalist mate in Raymond to cover for him.

Bourque-Clancy is a good fit, just not a perfect fit like Stevens-Harvey. Still a top pairing in this draft regardless.
 

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