Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
I'm back home just in time to vote. Most have probably voted already, but I still wanted to give some short replies to these assassinations, and give a thanks to @ChiTownPhilly, @BenchBrawl, and @ResilientBeast for the feedback!
I think Benn is fine as the 3rd best player on a second line here. His 7yr and 10 yr vs.X scores are the same as John LeClair and he similarly brings a physical game, but unlike LeClair who had Lindros, Benn was a primary driver of offense on his teams. A strong performance in this year's Cup run has done a lot for his resume as well.
What always impresses me about Holik's resume is how well he did in CSSR Golden Stick Voting...
5x Top 5 in Golden Stick Voting: 2nd (1973), 2nd (1974), 3rd (1969), 3rd (1975), 5th (1971)
Holik's Golden Stick voting compared to other CSSR great forwards. These figures are the percentage of votes received for the Golden Stick and the work was done by Sturminator.
Vladimir Martinec__: 16.4, 16.3, 15.3, 11.8, 8.5, 7.5, 7.4, 7.0, 5.9, 5.6, 5.0, 1.0
Milan Novy________: 15.3, 13.6, 13.4, 11.4, 10.5, 7.8, 6.3, 4.2, 2.1, 0.9
Vaclav Nedomansky: 13.5, 13.5, 10.9, 9.4, 8.6, 6.5
Jiri Holik_________: 14.5, 13.8, 11.5, 6.5, 6.4, 6.3, 6.3, 5.2, 2.8, 0.4
Ivan Hlinka_______: 16.3, 11.5, 9.5, 7.6, 5.6, 5.1, 5.1, 5.0, 4.5, 2.7, 0.4
Ovechkin won a Cup with Barry Trotz as his coach, also a task-master like Day, so I don't see that relationship being an issue. Also, Day gave a little more leash to his stars like Syl Apps, unlike a guy like Punch Imlach or Mike Keenan who seem to go after everybody.
Yes, the reason I gave Vasiliev the C (or K) is because he wasn't afraid to stand up to Tikhonov, yet the team did not seem to fall into disarray either, as they were very successful during this time, including winning a Canada Cup. Day wasn't as much of tyrant as Tikhonov, but he was strict, so it's nice to have a leader who can handle that.
We are seeing something different here, I've seen plenty of physicality from Benn (especially considering how the game is played today), I think he's one of the few legit power forwards remaining in the league.
This is a fair point, I will go back to my minutes chart and try to give him a little more ES time (likely will just take him off the PK alltogether)
Yes, strictly looking at numbers in a 12 team draft (i.e. #1-12 Dmen of all time are considered #1D, etc.), I probably have no #2 D, but I think Doughty, Vasiliev, and Johnson are all strong/above-average #3's, so it works out, and I think the chemistry is good, with the 1st pair being the obvious offensive-defensive combo, and the skillset on my 2nd pair being similar to Muzzin - Doughty (although Johnson appears to be nastier/more physical than Muzzin).
I'm honestly not sure about specifics regarding Red Kelly on the PP. However, we do know he was an excellent puck rusher, which is an important part of gaining the zone on a PP, and in terms of overall offense, he's elite, a clear 3rd best all-time behind Orr and Coffey IMO.
You are correct, Benn is the net presence. He's not afraid to go to dirty areas and we saw him parked in front of the net often in this year's playoffs. Also, his PP goal scoring stats are surprisingly good, in the last 7 yrs he ranks 6th in PP goals, just one behind Crosby. BTW, Ovechkin has a monstrous lead over that same period, with over 50 PP goals more than 2nd place (133-83)!
No real complaint here, I think Henri is fine on a second unit, but yeah, all my guys are average second unit guys, nothing special. I'm a big believer in stacking the first unit and giving them a lot of extra time, Ovechkin-Kelly, for example will be out there for most of the time. Now that I think about it, I'm going to increase Taylor's PP time, and have Henri take a shift or two of his at ES. Henri fits in nicely as the pivot on my first line.
Adding to this, I think we will be especially dangerous on the counter-attack, with a lot of speed and a couple of high end scorers that can finish on their own if needed in Ovechkin and Conacher.
I always thought Ovechkin was actually a pretty good forechecker with his physical game, and can help create turnovers. Maybe you are referring to more of a cycle game? This is something Hossa is great at, but I'm not sure about Ovie.
Don't think I can sugar-coat that I find Jamie Benn below-average in a twelve-team paradigm.
I think Benn is fine as the 3rd best player on a second line here. His 7yr and 10 yr vs.X scores are the same as John LeClair and he similarly brings a physical game, but unlike LeClair who had Lindros, Benn was a primary driver of offense on his teams. A strong performance in this year's Cup run has done a lot for his resume as well.
I'm not as sold on Holik as I am on a few of his Czechoslovak teammates... but with Schmidt-Recchi, what does it really matter?!
What always impresses me about Holik's resume is how well he did in CSSR Golden Stick Voting...
5x Top 5 in Golden Stick Voting: 2nd (1973), 2nd (1974), 3rd (1969), 3rd (1975), 5th (1971)
Holik's Golden Stick voting compared to other CSSR great forwards. These figures are the percentage of votes received for the Golden Stick and the work was done by Sturminator.
Vladimir Martinec__: 16.4, 16.3, 15.3, 11.8, 8.5, 7.5, 7.4, 7.0, 5.9, 5.6, 5.0, 1.0
Milan Novy________: 15.3, 13.6, 13.4, 11.4, 10.5, 7.8, 6.3, 4.2, 2.1, 0.9
Vaclav Nedomansky: 13.5, 13.5, 10.9, 9.4, 8.6, 6.5
Jiri Holik_________: 14.5, 13.8, 11.5, 6.5, 6.4, 6.3, 6.3, 5.2, 2.8, 0.4
Ivan Hlinka_______: 16.3, 11.5, 9.5, 7.6, 5.6, 5.1, 5.1, 5.0, 4.5, 2.7, 0.4
Coaching: Hap Day. Will love: Hossa, H. Richard, Schmidt, Ching Johnson [I suppose]. Will make peace with: Red Kelly, Recchi, Conacher. Then there's Ovechkin. That interaction might be good for a few headlines...
Ovechkin won a Cup with Barry Trotz as his coach, also a task-master like Day, so I don't see that relationship being an issue. Also, Day gave a little more leash to his stars like Syl Apps, unlike a guy like Punch Imlach or Mike Keenan who seem to go after everybody.
Vasiliev is best-poised to play the role of pressure-valve for that dynamic. Many good options for your letter-assignments, and the ones you chose make sense to me.
Yes, the reason I gave Vasiliev the C (or K) is because he wasn't afraid to stand up to Tikhonov, yet the team did not seem to fall into disarray either, as they were very successful during this time, including winning a Canada Cup. Day wasn't as much of tyrant as Tikhonov, but he was strict, so it's nice to have a leader who can handle that.
2nd line: Ambivalent. In the classic Moore-Henri-Richard line, true that Moore provided some playmaking, but he also provided defense and way more gritty than Benn (who, in his career as a whole, wasn't much of a physical player IMO).
We are seeing something different here, I've seen plenty of physicality from Benn (especially considering how the game is played today), I think he's one of the few legit power forwards remaining in the league.
A word on forwards TOI: Richard not having the most ES minute is a travesty. I get and accept that even though he didn't play PK or PP much IRL, it doesn't mean he's not a good choice for those. But ideally, I'd try to at least play him to his strenght a little more, since he proved he was an elite ES player.
This is a fair point, I will go back to my minutes chart and try to give him a little more ES time (likely will just take him off the PK alltogether)
Kelly gives you a good #1D, which is important because you have no real #2D (or at least, no strong one) ... Getting Ching so late was a big boost. On the value level, there's a gap between your #1D and whoever is your #2D, but your 2-3-4 defensemen are all solid.
Yes, strictly looking at numbers in a 12 team draft (i.e. #1-12 Dmen of all time are considered #1D, etc.), I probably have no #2 D, but I think Doughty, Vasiliev, and Johnson are all strong/above-average #3's, so it works out, and I think the chemistry is good, with the 1st pair being the obvious offensive-defensive combo, and the skillset on my 2nd pair being similar to Muzzin - Doughty (although Johnson appears to be nastier/more physical than Muzzin).
PP1: Excellent, though Kelly wasn't as great a PPQB as you'd expect for an offensive defenseman of his stature. He was under Harvey and Gadsby in his era IIRC. Ovechkin is elite, and Taylor-Conacher are solid. Not sure what to think of Benn here, as I presume he's the net presence.
I'm honestly not sure about specifics regarding Red Kelly on the PP. However, we do know he was an excellent puck rusher, which is an important part of gaining the zone on a PP, and in terms of overall offense, he's elite, a clear 3rd best all-time behind Orr and Coffey IMO.
You are correct, Benn is the net presence. He's not afraid to go to dirty areas and we saw him parked in front of the net often in this year's playoffs. Also, his PP goal scoring stats are surprisingly good, in the last 7 yrs he ranks 6th in PP goals, just one behind Crosby. BTW, Ovechkin has a monstrous lead over that same period, with over 50 PP goals more than 2nd place (133-83)!
PP2: This unit is pretty weak. Already Henri on a PP is a so-so strategy that you do from lack of option, Stevens is a good net presence and Schmidt I guess is good as a generic offensive contributor to the unit, but Doughty-Recchi doesn't strike fear in my heart.
No real complaint here, I think Henri is fine on a second unit, but yeah, all my guys are average second unit guys, nothing special. I'm a big believer in stacking the first unit and giving them a lot of extra time, Ovechkin-Kelly, for example will be out there for most of the time. Now that I think about it, I'm going to increase Taylor's PP time, and have Henri take a shift or two of his at ES. Henri fits in nicely as the pivot on my first line.
I am surprised to hear this, is it Kelly or Wentworth that you have an issue with?PK2: forwards are great, defensemen so-so.
Overall a word I would use to describe this team is deep. It' had a lot of layers to it, especially upfront. It has no super-weakness. It fits well with the coach Hap Day too. I would call it a grinding team, that beats you by grinding you up match-up after match-up. Would be interesting to see it in action in the playoffs.
Adding to this, I think we will be especially dangerous on the counter-attack, with a lot of speed and a couple of high end scorers that can finish on their own if needed in Ovechkin and Conacher.
You know Hossa better than I do so maybe I'm wrong, but Ovechkin and Taylor aren't the type of players to dig the puck out of the corners so you might face some challenges if the puck is deep in the opposing zone. But in transition a deadly unit.
I always thought Ovechkin was actually a pretty good forechecker with his physical game, and can help create turnovers. Maybe you are referring to more of a cycle game? This is something Hossa is great at, but I'm not sure about Ovie.
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